On dating, experience so far

[aFireInside]

(first date since taking the FDR red pill ) 

Recently i have been on one date so far. It didnt go so good. The date itself went "good" but i didnt find any virtue in the girl. 

There was religion and no sign of self-knowledge or depth. 

 

 

 

Also i tried online dating i paid for the premium really listened and read article on how to be successful with online dating. 

I was honest and smart about my profile. I had a few people look at it. 

I listened to the Freekonomics podacast on online dating. So i was really committed it wasn't a casual thing. 

I looked through hundreds of profiles, picked a few that had interests like psychology, philosophy, and that where not religious. 

Out of those i messages them told them what i liked about there profiles, and that i would like to know them better. 

 

I would say 90 percent of them seen my profile and deleted the message. The rest messaged me back but where really vauage and i couldn't keep a straight conversation with them. There was no connection it felt like they where not interested. 

I would ask them to tell me more about something they mentioned , like what kind of dancing do you like, or what do you like about this ....etc 

 

I tried it for about 1-2 months and gave up. POF.com

Im going to try to get more dates in real life. 

 

I just thought i would share. 

[aFireInside]

First, my friend (and I must tell you that in my early twenties I use to be some kind of "seduction-coach"... happily this is now only old ludicrous memories) - there's is something wrong with your face-attitude !

 

Your smile is fake ; I, personally, don't believe in it one second, - and be sure that I got absolutely no interest in mating you, so the fact that I'm myself repel is not any good sign here. The haircut is seemingly unnatural too. Are you aware of the old-times proverb : "Who takes husband takes land", which means : girls want to feel so-exicited by you that, unable to resist, - they will jump in an entire new world through your face, your home and your life. But it all start by "meeting the eyes", - so you will have, for the next days, like Napoleon 1st "Emperor of French", to test in front of a mirror your body language and your face-cues. 

 

I'm not kidding one second. Look at my own face ! Of course, I'm not here to get laid ; I become through time a bit disgusted of women, but this is another story. Only retains for now that you must offer at least one unique item, secret, body-feature, etc. - to get the woman attention, and, step-by-step, by elevating and "buying temperature", you get her sexually aroused. I will suggest you to buy a gorgeous brand new old-fashion cowboy-style hat, put it immediately on your head, - and ask the first girl around matching your beauty-standards if she would make a "selfie" with an irresistible cowboy.

 

After that, you'll come back here and take a new picture of your face (with the hat on your head, of course) - at this point, there's no need to precise that you must smile gorgeously : it will come of itself !

 

Good luck.

 

 

Are you ok ? 

You sound deeply disturbed 

[Prairie]

Wow. That escalated quickly.

[aFireInside]

Wow. That escalated quickly.

Can you make sense of his posts ? I got the feeling he is just trying to put me down

[Wuzzums]

Protip: you gotta use proper grammar if you wanna troll, otherwise the reader will lose patience and move on.

[Wesley]

@Ivan, how did these correspondences go with the women you were interested in? I know that online dating can be very difficult for virtuous women as they get messaged constantly with weird things and propositions for sex and other things and it can be very difficult to sort through the mess for the reasonable people. If I can take a look at a sample of what the initial contact may have read like, then it might be able to be improved in some way to increase your odds for future dating.

 

 

Bonus:

 

Also, in my dating both online and in person (plus texting in between) even before I was philosophical I worked hard in order to try to get people to talk about themselves in a deeper way and probably wouldn't have dated if it was limited to small talk.

 

Thus, I invented a game called The Question Game and offer to play it with people who I want to get to know better, mainly in a dating capacity, but it could also be used for friends or even in groups.

 

The rules are:

 

1. Any question can be asked and the other person "has to" answer it (Obviously they can not answer if they want to and occasionally you may stumble on something that was much more intense than you thought and you can just ask something else and come back to it. The idea is to make it fun and getting to know each other and not get too heavy too fast or too much.)

 

2. Any question you ask, you also have to answer (This makes it so people don't ask things that they are not also comfortable talking about themselves and prevents one person from coming up with all the questions and the others just going "Ok, so now thats my question to you" which is quite boring)

 

2a. Small modifications may be made to questions, mainly for gender differences (for instance if I ask how many boyfriends she has had, then the question I would answer would be girlfriends, as I haven't dated many guys...)

 

3. Questions alternate

 

The game starts out simple with favorite colors and favorite foods, and will slowly evolve from there. The fact that both people need to answer the question eases some of the concerns about revealing too much and it keeps people from asking anything that people are not ready to talk about yet themselves. It can be quite a fun game to play and lead to some great conversations and questions. (Obviously a question or answer might spark additional conversation).

 

Listening to the questions and listening to the answers can be a great way to get to know someone very quickly.

 

It might be something fun to offer to try if you are interested in dating someone and has worked for me when I have wanted to play it. If anyone ends up using it, I would be interested to hear the results.

[Eh Steve]

There is a kindness and sensitivity lacking in your messages Gotzen.  

 

I don't entirely disagree with the content but your approach was not appropriate in this context.

 

When you are giving someone advice to improve their social skills and reception they are receiving from others...it doesn't make sense to do it in a way which isn't well received.  

 

It is unfortunate your post was sort of hijacked Ivan.  

 

I think he made some statements I agree with regarding your smile appearing not genuine in this photo and your hair appearing non-fashionable.  The smile would be more important than the hair in my opinion, Einstein didn't have fashionable hair either.  It is odd but I believe you want a photo to be how you would look when interacting with the person you intend to date, which is difficult because you have to pretend that is happening when it isn't.  If you have a social circle it might be useful to get a candid photograph of yourself genuinely smiling.

 

Was your plan to talk with women for a long time online or were you arranging dates in person?

 

I'm certainly not an expert in dating or online dating, but perhaps someone here is or knows of a quality resource you can look into.  (by that I mean advice)  As well my understanding was that plentyoffish is more of a hookup website, you may do better on an alternative like match.com which seems more monogamous.

 

Best of luck Ivan, I hope this was helpful.  I can share more thoughts if you would enjoy that.

[Noesis]

I personally see nothing wrong with your photo at all, Ivan. There is nothing in it that would put me off, and I expect that goes for many other women as well. Obviously your photo would put off some people, but that is only because of subjective tastes in that regard.

 

My advice would be to just be who you are. I personally could care less about what is currently "fashionable". I would rather find traits of intelligence and compassion in a potential mate than a "fashionable" haircut and a confident manner. I am not the only woman in existence who thinks this, I'm sure. 

 

The odds are not spectacular in terms of finding a non-religious, philosophically-interested, psychology-interested, attractive, healthy woman who also happens to be available. But they do exist. You just have to expect that it is going to take a lot more effort to find one and interest one. Don't be discouraged! 

 

(And I would personally recommend befriending women in real-life and online in philosophy/psychology forums.) 

[BrianBrian]

Wanna give you props, Ivan. Very cool what you're doing and progressing.

[JamesP]

Ignore the trolls!

 

It might be worth sitting down and trying to identify the things that are keeping you from a relationship. It might just be exposure to the right kinds of people.

 

If what you're currently doing isn't working, do something different. It's taken me way too long to take that seriously.

[cynicist]

I would say 90 percent of them seen my profile and deleted the message. The rest messaged me back but where really vauage and i couldn't keep a straight conversation with them. There was no connection it felt like they where not interested. 

 

Yeah I tried online dating as well. Okcupid in particular. I had the same experience of vague responses, one girl kept sending me one word answers including smiley faces and so on, so I ended up carrying the whole conversation on my shoulders. I didn't realize it at the time, but now I look back and see that almost like a test. This girl was checking to see if I would respond in a way that she was familiar and comfortable with. (Is this guy ok with cutesy short messages that lack depth?) When you are feeling confused or distracted or just plain uncomfortable, I think that is a good sign that something weird is going on.

 

On reflection, online dating seems counter intuitive. The point of it is to connect with people that share your interests but it doesn't really work because that stuff isn't that important. Whether someone likes the same music or books as you do says little about their actual personality. You can get some information based on what they write in their profile or the kinds of messages they send you, but you get so much more in person.

 

Thanks for sharing your experience.

 

The odds are not spectacular in terms of finding a non-religious, philosophically-interested, psychology-interested, attractive, healthy woman who also happens to be available. But they do exist. You just have to expect that it is going to take a lot more effort to find one and interest one. Don't be discouraged! 

 

No kidding, I don't like to think about it lol. (not that the odds are much better for you women)

[LovePrevails]

Try OKCupid  instead. POF is a joke.

[aFireInside]

@Ivan, how did these correspondences go with the women you were interested in? I know that online dating can be very difficult for virtuous women as they get messaged constantly with weird things and propositions for sex and other things and it can be very difficult to sort through the mess for the reasonable people. If I can take a look at a sample of what the initial contact may have read like, then it might be able to be improved in some way to increase your odds for future dating.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for your tips! 

The usual message that i would send would be something like Hi my name is Ivan, I like **** about your profile. "then i would say i would like to know them better" 

 

I think he made some statements I agree with regarding your smile appearing not genuine in this photo and your hair appearing non-fashionable.  The smile would be more important than the hair in my opinion, Einstein didn't have fashionable hair either.  It is odd but I believe you want a photo to be how you would look when interacting with the person you intend to date, which is difficult because you have to pretend that is happening when it isn't.  If you have a social circle it might be useful to get a candid photograph of yourself genuinely smiling.

 

Was your plan to talk with women for a long time online or were you arranging dates in person?

 

 

 

Yeah I didnt use this picture for the dating site i had about  pictures some that other people took. I had better pictures, i usually style my hair when its longer this is a recent picture when i just got a buzz cut. 

Yes i did want to arrange dates asap because i don't like too much online chatting. 

Wanna give you props, Ivan. Very cool what you're doing and progressing.

 

Thanks for your support : ) 

Ignore the trolls!

 

It might be worth sitting down and trying to identify the things that are keeping you from a relationship. It might just be exposure to the right kinds of people.

 

If what you're currently doing isn't working, do something different. It's taken me way too long to take that seriously.

 

Yeah whenever i make myself vulnerable i get attacked. 

 

I think your right on the exposure to the right people and doing something different. I just recently started asking girls  out that I'm actually interested in , before i use to ask girls who i knew i wouldn't get rejected.  

 

Thanks for the reply  

I personally see nothing wrong with your photo at all, Ivan. There is nothing in it that would put me off, and I expect that goes for many other women as well. Obviously your photo would put off some people, but that is only because of subjective tastes in that regard.

 

My advice would be to just be who you are. I personally could care less about what is currently "fashionable". I would rather find traits of intelligence and compassion in a potential mate than a "fashionable" haircut and a confident manner. I am not the only woman in existence who thinks this, I'm sure. 

 

The odds are not spectacular in terms of finding a non-religious, philosophically-interested, psychology-interested, attractive, healthy woman who also happens to be available. But they do exist. You just have to expect that it is going to take a lot more effort to find one and interest one. Don't be discouraged! 

 

(And I would personally recommend befriending women in real-life and online in philosophy/psychology forums.) 

 

Thanks, yeah i feel the same way i know its going to be hard to find a rational girl but I'm trying ! 

    I don't like the online thing i feel like its 0.01%  chance of finding someone rational online. 

When i think about it those interest don't really matter i think the most important thing is to find someone with self-knowledge and rationality. 

Religion is mostly cultural most people are just conforming. If they could think you could probably talk them out of it. 

Yeah I tried online dating as well. Okcupid in particular. I had the same experience of vague responses, one girl kept sending me one word answers including smiley faces and so on, so I ended up carrying the whole conversation on my shoulders. I didn't realize it at the time, but now I look back and see that almost like a test. This girl was checking to see if I would respond in a way that she was familiar and comfortable with. (Is this guy ok with cutesy short messages that lack depth?) When you are feeling confused or distracted or just plain uncomfortable, I think that is a good sign that something weird is going on.

 

On reflection, online dating seems counter intuitive. The point of it is to connect with people that share your interests but it doesn't really work because that stuff isn't that important. Whether someone likes the same music or books as you do says little about their actual personality. You can get some information based on what they write in their profile or the kinds of messages they send you, but you get so much more in person.

 

Thanks for sharing your experience.

 

 

No kidding, I don't like to think about it lol. (not that the odds are much better for you women)

 

This is the reason why i don't like chatting online, online dating should be a place that helps people meet 

and where they could meet in person. I don't agree with the vague messages i can't stand it ! I don't think its a test. 

 

I want dept in my relationships and if they can't keep a conversation i doubt they can keep a serious relationship. 

Try OKCupid  instead. POF is a joke.

 

Thanks ill check it out if i ever decide to do online dating again. 

[LovePrevails]

First of all, bear in mind that on the internet, as in real life, it is a sellers market

 

girls get messages constantly and take their pick so they have a lot to choose from and most tend to only answer some 

it is not personal it's just they get a lot 

 

 

Thanks for your tips! 

The usual message that i would send would be something like Hi my name is Ivan, I like **** about your profile. "then i would say i would like to know them better" 

 

 

 

I would just say that you might want to pick something that is a bit less standard -

I would skip out your name because they can ask if they are interested and it gives them something to be curious about

 

Next, after you say something you like about their profile, comment on something else, if it is humorous so much the better

"I see you like the new superman movies, don't you think superman is too super? he can do anything... I prefer batman because he is a self-made man."

That will give the appearance of already being in a conversation with the person and make it easy for them to build rapport with you.

 

 

I think saying "I would like to get to know you better" is a bit redundant - because why else were you messaging?

Women are emotional communicators and read between the lines - "I would like to know you better" reads like "i would like to date you" to many women

 

something like "lets talk soon" is more casual etc.

 

these are just my suggestions

[aFireInside]

 

 

I think saying "I would like to get to know you better" is a bit redundant - because why else were you messaging?

Women are emotional communicators and read between the lines - "I would like to know you better" reads like "i would like to date you" to many women

 

something like "lets talk soon" is more casual etc.

 

these are just my suggestions

 

Right, that makes sense, well i didnt say that all the time but thats interesting  i never really looked at it that way . 

I tried different approaches. Ill try something less generic and redundant. 

[LovePrevails]

Can I use your question for one of my videos?

[cynicist]

I don't agree with the vague messages i can't stand it ! I don't think its a test. 

 

I don't mean it's an intentional test on the girl's part, I mean that's how I perceive it now since she never attempted any deeper conversation.

 

 

Yeah I didnt use this picture for the dating site i had about  pictures some that other people took. I had better pictures, i usually style my hair when its longer this is a recent picture when i just got a buzz cut. 

 

You remind me of Alessandro Juliani in your profile photo. I'm a huge fan of his acting work.

 

[Wesley]

Thanks for your tips! 

The usual message that i would send would be something like Hi my name is Ivan, I like **** about your profile. "then i would say i would like to know them better"  

If I were getting this message, I might have a small amount of curiosity, but there would be no place for me to enter the conversation.

 

Lets say someone is interested in philosophy on their profile. How you responded it would sound something like:

"Hi, my name is Ivan and I like that your profile says philosophy on it. I wold like to get to know you better."

 

What I see is a very depersonalized statement of "about your profile" rather than "about you". Also, I would highly suggest asking a question as it shows you are really interested in them and then you don't need to say it. 

 

I would say something closer to:

"Hey, I was just reading your profile and noticed you are interested in philosophy. I am a fan of philosophy and really enjoy exploring these kinds of ideas with people. What concepts or people in philosophy are of interest to you?"

 

To me, this says "I am interested in you, not your profile. Here is a little bit about me so that you don't feel like the only one who is sharing information, plus sharing this bit with me will probably be enjoyable because I enjoy it when I talk with others. Then, here is a question of curiosity about one of your interests which makes it very easy to enter the conversation and shows my genuine interest in you as a person."

 

 

This is the reason why i don't like chatting online, online dating should be a place that helps people meet 

and where they could meet in person. I don't agree with the vague messages i can't stand it ! I don't think its a test. 

 

I want dept in my relationships and if they can't keep a conversation i doubt they can keep a serious relationship. 

When I did online dating, it was not relegated to vague and shallow concepts. Sure, it would be somewhat at first only because you don't want to rip your heart out to complete strangers and a certain kind of mutual assurance that the other is not a creeper is needed, but it doesn't need to stay that way.

 

I am seeing that your messages seemed to be vague and lacking the curiosity needed for the deeper connection, which may have contributed to some of the feelings of shallowness and vagueness when trying to date online.

 

In general, questions and genuine curiosity are a great way to get people to talk about themselves and to start the venture toward connection and depth.

[aFireInside]

Can I use your question for one of my videos?

 

Go for it! 

It wasn't a question just me sharing experience but that would be cool if you talk about it. 

I don't mean it's an intentional test on the girl's part, I mean that's how I perceive it now since she never attempted any deeper conversation.

 

 

 

You remind me of Alessandro Juliani in your profile photo. I'm a huge fan of his acting work.

 

 

 

Right, thanks for clearing it up. I think there are women out there that can have semi deep conversations they don't have to open themselves up on the internet but at least right more than one word. 

 

Hahah people always tell me i remind them of someone and every time its completely different people.

If I were getting this message, I might have a small amount of curiosity, but there would be no place for me to enter the conversation.

 

Lets say someone is interested in philosophy on their profile. How you responded it would sound something like:

"Hi, my name is Ivan and I like that your profile says philosophy on it. I wold like to get to know you better."

 

What I see is a very depersonalized statement of "about your profile" rather than "about you". Also, I would highly suggest asking a question as it shows you are really interested in them and then you don't need to say it. 

 

I would say something closer to:

"Hey, I was just reading your profile and noticed you are interested in philosophy. I am a fan of philosophy and really enjoy exploring these kinds of ideas with people. What concepts or people in philosophy are of interest to you?"

 

To me, this says "I am interested in you, not your profile. Here is a little bit about me so that you don't feel like the only one who is sharing information, plus sharing this bit with me will probably be enjoyable because I enjoy it when I talk with others. Then, here is a question of curiosity about one of your interests which makes it very easy to enter the conversation and shows my genuine interest in you as a person."

 

 

When I did online dating, it was not relegated to vague and shallow concepts. Sure, it would be somewhat at first only because you don't want to rip your heart out to complete strangers and a certain kind of mutual assurance that the other is not a creeper is needed, but it doesn't need to stay that way.

 

I am seeing that your messages seemed to be vague and lacking the curiosity needed for the deeper connection, which may have contributed to some of the feelings of shallowness and vagueness when trying to date online.

 

In general, questions and genuine curiosity are a great way to get people to talk about themselves and to start the venture toward connection and depth.

 

Right i see what you are saying it seems all to make sense especial about the generic message i would send. 

Its not all that bad because some girls would message me with one word only. 

 

But if my message is shallow it would be more likely to attract those types. At the time i thought it wast but now that you point it out it kinda seems that way. 

[tjt]

First of all, bear in mind that on the internet, as in real life, it is a sellers market

 

girls get messages constantly and take their pick so they have a lot to choose from and most tend to only answer some 

it is not personal it's just they get a lot 

 

 

 

 

I would just say that you might want to pick something that is a bit less standard -

I would skip out your name because they can ask if they are interested and it gives them something to be curious about

 

Next, after you say something you like about their profile, comment on something else, if it is humorous so much the better

"I see you like the new superman movies, don't you think superman is too super? he can do anything... I prefer batman because he is a self-made man."

That will give the appearance of already being in a conversation with the person and make it easy for them to build rapport with you.

 

 

I think saying "I would like to get to know you better" is a bit redundant - because why else were you messaging?

Women are emotional communicators and read between the lines - "I would like to know you better" reads like "i would like to date you" to many women

 

something like "lets talk soon" is more casual etc.

 

these are just my suggestions

 

I really like your take on this, LovePrevails. I've never tried online dating, but your comment about it being a sellers' market got me thinking. It's like shopping for a bottle of wine (which is a totally oversaturated market... I don't know how anyone makes money selling wine, but I guess it's possible!). Anyway, there are so many bottles of wine in the liquor store (men in online dating), and without being able to taste them (meet each guy) there's got to be something that catches the eye and says "Hey, I'm different, give me a try!"

 

Rather than just telling her what interests you, show her by making a witty comment (or another play that suits your personaility better) that she can relate to, like LovePrevails suggested. Otherwise, you risk seeming generic.

 

I think it takes a lot of courage to do what you are doing, Ivan! Good luck!