An Early Memory of Potential Sexual Abuse

[Quadrewple]

I was posting on a recent thread about a user who has cuckold fantasies and it reminded me of a very disturbing memory which I have never shared with anyone.

 

My parents sometimes had me, my younger brother, and my younger sister sometimes would bathe in the same tub.  I was born in 1991, my younger brother in 1993, and my younger sister in 1996.

 

I have memories of trying to get my little sister to kiss my penis in the bathtub.  I called it my "little man" as a euphemism and I remember manipulating her into doing it, and that she never wanted to do it.  If I remember correctly, I was 8 or 9, which would make her 3 or 4 and my brother 6 or 7.

 

Even though I know that my parents are to blame for having us in the same bathtub, there is the shame of having to keep the secret (because I had no bond with either parent), the shame of imprinting my younger sister who I love with this inappropriate and humiliating sexual memory (she moved in with a friend, and we don't speak very often, and it will be very humiliating to bring up to her).  My mom may as well be dead because she is on so many anti-depressants and anti-psychotics that she is like a zombie, and she was the one around the most for raising us (and lives out of state in a group home) - so I can never really gain closure by asking her why we were put in that situation.  My dad's excuse was "We needed to save hot water," which is obvious bullshit because in 10 seconds I thought of the fact that our parents could have had us set timers for showers and I KNOW we had enough disposable income to pay for the heating of the water.  But then he told me that his parents had him and his younger sister bathe in the same tub, and so it became obvious that he was just repeating what was done to him without examining whether or not it was necessary or healthy (the same way he beat and ignored me the way his father did to him).

 

I haven't brought this up with my therapist yet, but there's just so much trauma I have to deal with from my past that this isn't necessarily that high on the list.  That being said, it is important enough to me to reach out to this community for some insight and feedback on how to bring it up with my sister, who is now 17.

[dsayers]

I grew up in a similar situation. I had shared baths with my sister (2 years younger) and with a couple of female cousins (same age and 2 years younger). In retrospect, I guess the cousins thing just means that it was considered normal without examination too. Additionally, at home, there were very relaxed boundaries on the bathroom in general. I don't remember how old I was the last time it happened, but it was not uncommon for more than 1 person to be in the bathroom.

 

Around the time of puberty, I was molested by my sister and one of my cousins. I sort of went with it and molested my sister back. She told on me and I got into so much trouble. To this day, I have not divulged with anybody her secret. Namely that it actually began with her. Part of the reason I held onto it was because I viewed it as avoiding responsibility. Because I was once in a group therapy scenario where I was literally yelled at for trying to share the bathroom situation as if I was doing so to avoid responsibility for my actions.

 

I cannot really give advice for your situation. However, I think a bit more info would be helpful. For example, how did you at the age of 8-9 understand that mouth to penis was even a thing? It seems like this would not be the beginning of the story. Also, was it just the one time? Obviously to coerce somebody into doing something they do not want to do is wrong. However, without more info, I would not necessarily regard that as sexual in terms of you accountability.

 

My dad's excuse was "We needed to save hot water," which is obvious bullshit because in 10 seconds I thought of the fact that our parents could have had us set timers for showers and I KNOW we had enough disposable income to pay for the heating of the water.

 

This is missing the point. Assuming that having unsupervised, shared, and/or multi-gender baths is problematic, you don't take on the responsibility of having 3 kids if you cannot afford the water for them to bathe in an appropriate environment.

[Quadrewple]

Around the time of puberty, I was molested by my sister and one of my cousins. I sort of went with it and molested my sister back. She told on me and I got into so much trouble. To this day, I have not divulged with anybody her secret. Namely that it actually began with her. Part of the reason I held onto it was because I viewed it as avoiding responsibility. Because I was once in a group therapy scenario where I was literally yelled at for trying to share the bathroom situation as if I was doing so to avoid responsibility for my actions.

 

Wow that is fucked up and I'm sorry to hear that happened.  I can only imagine how enraging it would have been to mirror the behavior your sister engaged with you back at her (I assume she was older?) and YOU were the one who got in trouble and were put in a position where you had to carry that secret.

 

 

"I cannot really give advice for your situation. However, I think a bit more info would be helpful. For example, how did you at the age of 8-9 understand that mouth to penis was even a thing? It seems like this would not be the beginning of the story. Also, was it just the one time? Obviously to coerce somebody into doing something they do not want to do is wrong. However, without more info, I would not necessarily regard that as sexual in terms of you accountability."

 

 

Thanks so much for responding, and your question brings back another memory I like to forget, where I found child pornography on my dad's computer, which was shared by the family.  I don't remember what age I was, but it could have been anywhere from 11-15.  It was a few disgusting pictures of naked prepubescent teenage girls that was part of some web series along the lines of "Teenage Pageant" or some other terrible series produced by terrible people.  I have no memories of being sexually abused, except for a LOT of bare-bottom spanking for which the case can be made that that is sexual abuse.

 

As for the fact that I understood mouth to penis at age 8 or 9, I had a friend a couple years older who introduced me to masturbation and pornography at something like age 7 and I was compulsively masturbating long before I could ejaculate, and definitely have had an addiction to masturbation for most of my life.  I know it was an addiction because sometimes the skin on my genitals would get raw from the friction, it would often be several times in one day, and I was caught masturbating at one point or another by every family member and it was never discussed.  This same guy who introduced me to masturbation would sleep over at my house with me and my brother and we did sexual experiments with each other even though my brother and I are not gay or bisexual (me and my brother performed oral sex on him, but not each other IIRC, and he did on us and I remember performing oral sex on him while he was sleeping, with his permission).  I know that me and my brother practically worshipped this guy, and so I probably unconsciously saw performing sex acts on him as an act of subservience.  I also know that my father was barely around even when he wasn't working and that I was the most involved male in my sister's life, and that I loved the amount of influence I had over her because of all this because it gave me a sense of power I couldn't get elsewhere.  Now that I've written this out, it doesn't sound like I had a sexual intent (and I don't remember having one at the time), but rather that me manipulating her into doing it was an act of dominance more than anything else.  And regardless of my intent, this was likely her first memory involving the opposite sex's genitals.

 

This is missing the point. Assuming that having unsupervised, shared, and/or multi-gender baths is problematic, you don't take on the responsibility of having 3 kids if you cannot afford the water for them to bathe in an appropriate environment.

 

Definitely.  I never meant to imply that it wasn't my parents responsibility to provide the kids with what they needed - only that his excuse was obviously bullshit even if we assumed that it was for financial reasons.  And I was thinking that it is probably not inherently problematic for people to see their family members naked - but that since we live in a society where genitals are a private thing except for sexual encounters, to put a kid in a situation where they are bathing with their siblings would only serve to create confusion, shame, and potentially problematic situations like this one and the one you experienced which was obviously problematic. To be fair, the fact that your sister was okay with molesting you and I was okay with manipulating my sister says a lot about both sets of parents so I think we have to take the mistreatment of the children by adults into account when assessing the negativity of family bathing.

[dsayers]

Sounds like we had similar histories. Part of the reason that I explored the possibility of your act of coercion not being sexual in terms of your accountability was because I too was introduced to penis contact through a boy who was sleeping over. Even though I'm certain the root of his knowledge was abusive, I certainly didn't view the act at the time as sexual or wrong.

 

What's the difference? Well obviously making your sister do anything she doesn't want to do is wrong. Apologizing for that in general would be fine. If you introduced the mechanically sexual nature of the act itself, even though sex wasn't your intent and it being sexual would make her hearing about it that much more uncomfortable if not frightening. Like I don't know if the case could be made that you'd be doing her more harm in bringing it up than leaving her memory (assuming she even remembers it) alone.

 

I wish I could say with greater certainty. Both approaches seem plausible to me with the latter very possibly being an excuse to not do the right thing. Is it possible to approach the subject in an exploratory fashion? Like apologize to her for dominating her as a child and ask her if there's anything specific that stands out in her mind as a truly horrible experience for her? Again, I have no idea if this is good advice. You didn't mention if this was an ongoing thing with her, just that one time, etc. Like with my sister, yeah, there was a couple sexual and/or coercive encounters, but even outside those, I was generally horrible to her. I don't know if that's how it was for you also.

[Quadrewple]

What's the difference? Well obviously making your sister do anything she doesn't want to do is wrong. Apologizing for that in general would be fine. If you introduced the mechanically sexual nature of the act itself, even though sex wasn't your intent and it being sexual would make her hearing about it that much more uncomfortable if not frightening. Like I don't know if the case could be made that you'd be doing her more harm in bringing it up than leaving her memory (assuming she even remembers it) alone.

 

I wish I could say with greater certainty. Both approaches seem plausible to me with the latter very possibly being an excuse to not do the right thing. Is it possible to approach the subject in an exploratory fashion? Like apologize to her for dominating her as a child and ask her if there's anything specific that stands out in her mind as a truly horrible experience for her? Again, I have no idea if this is good advice. You didn't mention if this was an ongoing thing with her, just that one time, etc. Like with my sister, yeah, there was a couple sexual and/or coercive encounters, but even outside those, I was generally horrible to her. I don't know if that's how it was for you also.

 

Good points all around, and I've had some of those thoughts in passing that it might cause more harm than good if I approach it the wrong way.  And I was generally horrible to her as well, I was coercive and often mocked her tone of voice and anger towards me when we were kids.  It wasn't until I found FDR that we started to have any kind of real relationship.  If I do bring this up with her, the thought comes up that she is now in a happy situation (I'm not) and me bringing this up is more to ease my own inner demons than to help her.  I don't know what to think about that thought.  I've apologized to her before, but we never really discussed in depth the specific things that happened - many of these memories were repressed by me, but I remember bullying her into getting off the shared family computer, I remember that there were a few separate occassions where we were bathing together and I manipulated her into kissing my genitals.

 

I'm curious how you handled your history with your sister in terms of apologizing and working things out and where things stand between you and her now.

[dsayers]

If I do bring this up with her, the thought comes up that she is now in a happy situation (I'm not) and me bringing this up is more to ease my own inner demons than to help her.

 

But learning that you're making progress in this area might make her happier. Or it might encourage her to process the damage done to her that could be getting masked by her appearance of happiness. I don't think it's fair to make this decision for her without her. If you try to talk to her and she's not interested, then that's her deciding she doesn't want to talk about it.

 

I never patched things up with my sister. She had a kid at one point and as I began to have nothing to do with my mother, she used the child as a power play to cause a rift in the family. From what I hear from very limited second-hand accounts, she's become obsessed with me. There was one time I made contact with her for other reasons and she made it clear she wanted nothing to do with me. At this point, it would be wrong for me to approach her. Also, I don't want to, nor do I view it as necessary. She's damaged me just as much and has no interest in reconnecting.

[Quadrewple]

But learning that you're making progress in this area might make her happier. Or it might encourage her to process the damage done to her that could be getting masked by her appearance of happiness. I don't think it's fair to make this decision for her without her. If you try to talk to her and she's not interested, then that's her deciding she doesn't want to talk about it.

 

Again, great points.  Thanks for your honesty and thanks to your insight I feel more comfortable in proceeding to bring this topic up with her.  And I'm sorry to hear all these things about the way your sister treated you, and I didn't mean to imply in my last post that you were more in the wrong than her.