Can a guy have female friends?

[MysterionMuffles]

Of course he can, but not when he's single. Maybe if you have a girlfriend and you're good friends with her friends. Even then you'd have to put some distance on the vulnerability and possibly innate flirting to make it work.

[PatrickC]

If I have enough closeness to be really vulnerable with a woman and there is mutual trust and respect and all of that, and she's available and anywhere near my age, then it seems insane to me that I would just stay friends with her. Being how rare that is (at least for me) I would be working double-time to have a romantic relationship with her.

 

Yea, I'd say that was a Mills & Boon in the making. Romance would follow by then, pretty sure. fireworks even! 

 

 

st434u Seriously fella stop knighting. Of course people can talk in generalities. No one has explicitly said 'all anyone'. Mostly the discussion has been around the biological traits of both men and women.

[Carl Green]

I know of at least one that can.

[Connor]

Why does sexual attraction make friendship impossible?  I have female friends and I would like to have sex with all of them, if there were no consequences to that action.  This doesn't mean that I can't be friends with them.

[PatrickC]

Why does sexual attraction make friendship impossible?  I have female friends and I would like to have sex with all of them, if there were no consequences to that action.  This doesn't mean that I can't be friends with them.

 

Imagine trying to chat with a friend whilst having a boner.. It might allude to the difficulty..

 

Not impossible, but somewhat debilitating.. 

[sagiquarius]

It's one thing to say "on average, women tend to prefer X more than men, whereas men on average prefer Y more than women", it's another thing to say "all women want X, and all men want Y".

 

Also, way to drive women off the site, with mostly everyone agreeing that men can't be friends with them. No, YOU guys are the ones who can't be friends with them. You're the ones who are so sex deprived that you can't think of anything else, all women are to you is a hole to put your thing in. No matter if it's your buddy's wife, no matter if it's a 90 year old grandma, no matter even if it's your own mother?

Come on dude, how do you think this is perceived by others?  The OP was asking a question, and noting the difficulties of having a friend for whom you may have romantic feelings.  I'm in the camp of women and men can be friends just fine (just like gay dudes can have guy friends) so long as they are willing to deal with whatever sexual tension may, or may not, come up.

 

I've heard some married guys say they refuse to have any female friends because of the potential for sexual tension causing some stress in the marriage.  What would you say to them?  How does that tell you about the marriage?

 

Then you've the polyamorists ...   Let's not go down that road.

[JohnH.]

By available I didn't mean available for me in particular. I meant "on the market" so to speak, that the woman is single and straight and looking for men to date.Of course friends aren't perfect, but both parties still have to agree in the end in order for the friendship to occur. When I speak of deficiency, I mean a deficiency that is considered bad enough to prevent a relationship from forming. (or going any further than friendship)I almost instantly lose interest when I find out a woman is taken. Cheating is gross in my opinion so that's not an issue for me.What do you mean by 'got both'?Well that's the question isn't it? If they themselves are attractive, single, looking for a man to date, and even share similar values (which they would have to if they were a friend) there must be something about you that doesn't meet their standards. That's what I mean by deficient.

Got both meaning I have both platonic and romantic relationships with women.I doubt most of you are even interested in having platonic female friends. A couple of us have made it known that it is possible, yet none of those that maintain the position that it is rare, nearly impossible, suspicious, unlikely, reality, etc., have sought for advice on how to have them. If you don't want female friends in the first place then of course you won't be able to have female friends, but let's get the causal line straight. To put it another way, if you want to learn how to fly a plane but don't know how, you can't go around telling pilots that it can't be done.It may be the case that, for whatever reason, some of you will always be overcome with emotional turmoil every single time you try to be just friends with a female. If that is the case, then I completely understand why you wouldn't want female friends. However, using this as our starting point will most certainly result in confirmation bias and projection.When I was teenager I found it incredibly difficult to be just friends with women. Looking back, I can say with absolute confidence that the issue I had was a serious lack of self-esteem and desire for attention. If any girl gave me attention I immediately "fell" for her. It wasn't until I matured emotionally and developed a sense of self that I found myself able to talk to women in a way that didn't involve sexual or romantic feelings. It was hard and took nearly a decade, but it was worth it. Is this your problem? I have no clue, but if you want to be able to be friends with women it wouldn't hurt to explore this idea and other alternatives. If you have already decided that you don't want to be friends with women then what you're really asking is, "Can I be friends with someone I don't want to be friends with.Cynicist, i quoted you, but my response isn't necessarily directed at you.

[cynicist]

Some of it is my baggage, I'm sure, and having had a female therapist for the past (almost) 4 years, disclosing very personal things and sharing my insecurities and vulnerabilities, it's been loaded and complicated at times for me. But I have at least some idea of how much of that is my own baggage and where it's just reality.

 

Yeah things can get confusing there even when you know it's a professional relationship. Without that clear line of separation it's much worse.

 

Mostly I mean feeling attracted to someone who is not going to date me and trying to manage my own discomfort around that.

 

And the reasons why, right? Since if it's a temporary thing, like she thinks you have some issues to work out or aren't financially stable, these are things you can work to improve in the hopes that a future romantic relationship is possible. If it's something permanent like, "You just aren't my type" then that is going to be something that lingers in the friendship. I don't see how you couldn't feel awkward and miserable from that point on, to feel strongly for someone and have your feelings go unrequited for failing to meet her standards. 

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think anyone who says it wouldn't bother them is likely just telling themselves that it shouldn't matter, in a mistaken attempt to overcome their own nature. 

[Kevin Beal]

And the reasons why, right? [...] Maybe I'm wrong, but I think anyone who says it wouldn't bother them is likely just telling themselves that it shouldn't matter, in a mistaken attempt to overcome their own nature. 

Yes, absolutely. You've captured exactly how I feel about it.

[ebrink06]

Well maybe it's a difference in defining "friendship" then. Because certainly I've had conversations with women who probably aren't after my D or my $. I do this daily with some very pleasant and nice ladies in my life. If that's your definition, then I've got plenty of friends who are girls.

 

To be intimate, however, like disclosing really personal things you don't tell other people, sharing where your insecurities and vulnerabilities are, and the sorts of things that would, for me, distinguish an acquaintance from a real friend; I have a noticeable amount more trouble doing this with women without it becoming loaded and complicated for me. And I'm not convinced that this is all just my own baggage that I just need to get over.

 

Some of it is my baggage, I'm sure, and having had a female therapist for the past (almost) 4 years, disclosing very personal things and sharing my insecurities and vulnerabilities, it's been loaded and complicated at times for me. But I have at least some idea of how much of that is my own baggage and where it's just reality.

 

If I have enough closeness to be really vulnerable with a woman and there is mutual trust and respect and all of that, and she's available and anywhere near my age, then it seems insane to me that I would just stay friends with her. Being how rare that is (at least for me) I would be working double-time to have a romantic relationship with her.

 

I've noticed disappointment when I try and have that with women that I don't date. Either I come to want to date them and it's just not going to happen, or the connection ended up being superficial. Just simply being friends in the way I mean "friends" just never happens in my life, and I'm inclined to believe that it happens this way generally. Any disagreement, I believe, is simply about miscommunication. So hopefully I've communicated it well enough to find agreement.

 

If a guy tells me that they have this and it's not a family member or something like that, then I'm very suspicious.

 

I think this is the real heart of the matter. People's interpretation of the word "friend" is very broad.. We could use a few more words in the English language besides friend and aquaintance. Any ideas??  There is a huge difference between intimate and superficial friendships. I'm a lesbian and can't have intimate friendships with other women (no matter their sexuality) without being attracted to them eventually. At that point, if she's straight, the relationship has to end up being superficial. If it's another lesbian I'm close with, it would be insanity to just want friendship since it's rare enough to find another lesbian, much less one to feel comfortable with and relate.  I have some straight male friends, but they've told me that they'd be with me romantically if they could. It's easiest for me to have intimate friendships with gay men. So, yes, intimacy is a huge trigger for sexuality. At some point if you're in a friendship with someone who's gender matches your attraction, the natural process of deepening that relationship will lead to wanting more.

[cynicist]

I think this is the real heart of the matter. People's interpretation of the word "friend" is very broad.. We could use a few more words in the English language besides friend and aquaintance. Any ideas??  There is a huge difference between intimate and superficial friendships. I'm a lesbian and can't have intimate friendships with other women (no matter their sexuality) without being attracted to them eventually. At that point, if she's straight, the relationship has to end up being superficial. If it's another lesbian I'm close with, it would be insanity to just want friendship since it's rare enough to find another lesbian, much less one to feel comfortable with and relate.  I have some straight male friends, but they've told me that they'd be with me romantically if they could. It's easiest for me to have intimate friendships with gay men. So, yes, intimacy is a huge trigger for sexuality. At some point if you're in a friendship with someone who's gender matches your attraction, the natural process of deepening that relationship will lead to wanting more.

 

Thanks for the input. I don't have any lesbian friends so I'm going to correct myself based on this. I thought that perhaps if I saw the woman as 'unavailable' I might not be affected the same way, but it's probably just wishful thinking

 

You are right about the distinction between intimate and superficial, that is where the main disagreement is here.

[FreedomPhilosophy]

Based on my own experience the answer is yes.

[massaki]

 

 

It has always been easy for me to be friends with women so I might be coming at this from a different perspective.  I see a romantic relationship as an upgrade over a platonic relationship which is an upgrade over a non-relationship.  If a romantic relationship is off the table, I have to be honest with myself.  Since all of the qualities that I like about this person are still there, it would be nonsensical for me to downgrade all the way to a non-relationship.

 

 

Dude that's not even getting a  car with no upgrades, it's a car with upgrades that beeps it's horn at you and makes you look at it, but says don't touch.   It worse then when a dog starts humping its beanie bag pretending its a female dog, because you know at least that poor fella gets to have a orgasm. 

[Emman]

All this false dichotomy and conversations show is how devoid of meaning and philosophy the concept of friendship is for most people, and how deeply ingrained certain false morals around monogamy are... I think it is very sad.

For those who understand friendship requires intimacy--and of course that mind and body are not separate--sexuality is just another side of friendship. 

 

I hear you, friend. 

[cobra2411]

I'm going with the "yes, men can have female friends." So what if there's sexual tension there. I have gay male friends and we joke around and I suspect there's some tension there at least from a couple of them. I know one asked a mutual friend if I was gay because he wanted to hit on me. For me it comes down to one thing - respect. If I have a female friend and there's not to be any "with benefits" we just don't go there. Same thing with my gay guy friends. They know I'm straight and it would never work out so beyond a few innuendo's here and there that's it. It's similar with girls I know who are married. There's one I work with that I would ask out in a heartbeat if she wasn't married. I won't ever cross that line. So my single and dating female friends just go in that unavailable section of my mind that married women go into. As Buford T Justice once said "You can think about it, but don't do it..."

 

I also have a few ex-girlfriends that I still see. We just weren't compatible and after a cool down period, since we run in similar social circles we'll hang out and chat if we run into each other. Hell, one of my ex's is going through almost the same thing I'm going through with my mother and I spent a few hours talking and listening to her the other night because her fiance was tired and he doesn't really understand. I have another friend that when I call and her husband answers the phone he'll says "hold on, I'll get your girlfriend for you" and in the background I hear him say "Steph, your BF's on the phone..." I think we all knew if the situation were different I'd be all over her. 

[Omegahero09]

You totally can, but I think it gets easier the older you are.

[thelion]

I agree with with the post just above this one.

 

When people are young however, Robert Heinlein is typically correct when he said that if a healthy man and woman are together long enough, and friendly, they will have sexual intercourse---its mutual pleasure and for fun, why not? He also agreed with the view that men and women typically are not merely friends in a relationship, but there is attraction in the end. Or already in the beginning.

 

But outside the (obvious) evolutionary psychology, which does not determine but does predispose, I ARGUE men and women are often friends and only this and no more iff they share hobbies. When their hobbies are not the same, but they like each other's conversation, or beliefs, or presence, or even are similar intellectually, then typically one of them or both wants to be romantically involved with the other party.

 

At least that's my experience, personal and from observation. Most often men and women have different hobbies but spend time together. In that case they cannot be 'just friends', but I agree it varies with age.

 

So basically, it's a function of several variables, a branching tree of options.

[Jot]

Mostly I mean feeling attracted to someone who is not going to date me and trying to manage my own discomfort around that.

 

I'm not into dudes...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5evwkpOFUY

[tasmlab]

Ooh ooh!  I've had one.  But we were coworkers sharing the same office for a couple years. Put each other in stitches.  She was very attractive and we never thought of hooking up.  We'd even hang out outside of work frequently and she introduced me to her family many times.

 

I'd say it was more of the exception.

 

Depending on how broadly you define 'friends', people in groups seem to be able to have boy/girl friendships to a degree.

[J. D. Stembal]

Is it possible to be close with a female, without anything sexual, if you guys are both single? 

 

I have never had a female friend that i was close to , that i didn't start to feel attracted to, when we were both single.  I want to know your opinions.

 

This is a really loaded question. The unstated assumption made here is that a male-female friendship that doesn't include sex is not a worthy relationship. My concern here is that you are valuing human relationships solely by how much sexual satisfaction you can derive from it. A more important concern to me would be that I can love and trust (key components to any friendship) the people with which I share physical sexual contact. Share sex with your friends, and forget everyone else.

[pipeline_mike]

I have never seen it, personally, but I bet that I have at least one true female friend before my journey is done. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. 

[CaseyC]

Watching the video at the top of the post really made me feel disgusted. The girls knew that their guy "friends" liked them romantically/sexually and said "but we're friends" (paraphrasing of course). To put it into context, a girl knows she is attractive and uses that to have her guy friends who she can call upon when she is in need of support (ride to the store, emotional support, finances, handyman work, etc.). It goes right back to the podcast "Estrogen based Parasites" ... which was a HUGE mind-opener for me.

 

I totally had guy friends just for rides, finances, emotional support, technical stuff, etc. , and played them like a fiddle. I'd have boyfriends on top of having guy friends. These women (just as I did)  prostitute themselves for protection and support. The thing is, they know they do it (deep deep down)... but they won't admit to it. I realized what I was doing, found it downright horrible and then decided to change... I mean really, what guy hasn't been "friendzoned" and didn't go over and beyond for that girl just so he can date her someday... the girls know that. I guess a close metaphor would be a spearfisherman diving down to get a delicious grouper (the man) and a barracuda is lurking nearby (the woman). The spearfisherman spears the grouper, and as he is trying to take the fish off the spear, the barracuda comes in and snatches the fish. Thus in the end, the barracuda got an easy meal .... except the barracuda isn't manipulating the spearfisherman like women manipulate men.

 

So as I see it, men and women cannot be "just friends" ... otherwise the man is simply used for his support and the woman doesn't even need to use what she has between her legs, she can save that for her boyfriend then... and of course get support from her boyfriend/husband/lover as well. Back in the day, men would be the ones out in the fields or hunting and fishing while the women generally kept to the home and took care of the children... if a woman didn't have a man in her life her family would go hungry. As humans we are still biologically wired for that.

 

I had a very interesting conversation with my boyfriend last night, I brought up a topic similar to this, about women and men. He brought up a good point in viking history, where the women themselves would go into battle to protect their family... and of course the husbands and other men followed as well. Men and women once going into battle together, and how ruthless the vikings were in battle. Just as you never want to get between a mother moose and her calf, nobody would want to mess with the viking women. (please correct me if I am wrong) My boyfriend also brought up how most women don't want to "stand up" and fight. He told me how the girls were in his permaculture design course... at first they were very involved and asked questions but after the technical part of designing came up they got all quiet. I'm not saying ALL women don't like to do the hard and dirty work, but go back and think of how many women would want to change the oil in a car, or plot out where a house is going to be built. It goes back to the estrogen based parasites again...

 

I just wanted to throw in my two cents... the disgust I feel towards those girls in that video is overwhelming...and the fact that they're even SMILING like it's a JOKE. I could rant on about that forever...

[PatrickC]

Casey I believe you deserve a round of applause for such a well meaning and thought out rant indeed.

[AccuTron]

Yeah, Casey, that is a welcome and massive public service.

[Jeff W.]

Bravo, Casey. I agree with the overall sentiment in here as a generality, but I don't think the philosophy totally pans out.  As EndTheUsurpation noted, relationships shouldn't be predicated on whether our genitals tingle or not. Stringing men along like in that video obviously pushes the argument in that direction, but that's not to say that men and women can't have an upfront relationship in which the groundrules are laid out in the beginning and the relationship goes from there. There are plenty of (non-sexual) things I'd like to do with my guy friends all the time that aren't always possible but that doesn't mean that the relationship overall is impossible.

[Eva]

Hi Casey. I like what you say about how disgusting that female behaviour is, but then you go on to say men and women cannot be just friends, which is not what I was expecting at all, if you think it is somehow morally wrong to take advantage of the other sex.

 

I know I can be friends with men, as I am, and that is a result of morality and truth being more important to us than sex--and obviously the universality of morality and virtue transcends gender or age... This is also the reason I do not look for sex in a "boyfriend" or "husband" anymore, as I realise how those concepts are linked to these exploitative needs.

 

So, summing up, what you say seems contradictory, and might be because you are still doing that which you condemn. Don't you think?

 

 

So as I see it, men and women cannot be "just friends" ... otherwise the man is simply used for his support and the woman doesn't even need to use what she has between her legs, she can save that for her boyfriend then... and of course get support from her boyfriend/husband/lover as well. Back in the day, men would be the ones out in the fields or hunting and fishing while the women generally kept to the home and took care of the children... if a woman didn't have a man in her life her family would go hungry. As humans we are still biologically wired for that.

 

[MysterionMuffles]

Watching the video at the top of the post really made me feel disgusted. The girls knew that their guy "friends" liked them romantically/sexually and said "but we're friends" (paraphrasing of course). To put it into context, a girl knows she is attractive and uses that to have her guy friends who she can call upon when she is in need of support (ride to the store, emotional support, finances, handyman work, etc.). It goes right back to the podcast "Estrogen based Parasites" ... which was a HUGE mind-opener for me.

 

I totally had guy friends just for rides, finances, emotional support, technical stuff, etc. , and played them like a fiddle. I'd have boyfriends on top of having guy friends. These women (just as I did)  prostitute themselves for protection and support. The thing is, they know they do it (deep deep down)... but they won't admit to it. I realized what I was doing, found it downright horrible and then decided to change... I mean really, what guy hasn't been "friendzoned" and didn't go over and beyond for that girl just so he can date her someday... the girls know that. I guess a close metaphor would be a spearfisherman diving down to get a delicious grouper (the man) and a barracuda is lurking nearby (the woman). The spearfisherman spears the grouper, and as he is trying to take the fish off the spear, the barracuda comes in and snatches the fish. Thus in the end, the barracuda got an easy meal .... except the barracuda isn't manipulating the spearfisherman like women manipulate men.

 

So as I see it, men and women cannot be "just friends" ... otherwise the man is simply used for his support and the woman doesn't even need to use what she has between her legs, she can save that for her boyfriend then... and of course get support from her boyfriend/husband/lover as well. Back in the day, men would be the ones out in the fields or hunting and fishing while the women generally kept to the home and took care of the children... if a woman didn't have a man in her life her family would go hungry. As humans we are still biologically wired for that.

 

I had a very interesting conversation with my boyfriend last night, I brought up a topic similar to this, about women and men. He brought up a good point in viking history, where the women themselves would go into battle to protect their family... and of course the husbands and other men followed as well. Men and women once going into battle together, and how ruthless the vikings were in battle. Just as you never want to get between a mother moose and her calf, nobody would want to mess with the viking women. (please correct me if I am wrong) My boyfriend also brought up how most women don't want to "stand up" and fight. He told me how the girls were in his permaculture design course... at first they were very involved and asked questions but after the technical part of designing came up they got all quiet. I'm not saying ALL women don't like to do the hard and dirty work, but go back and think of how many women would want to change the oil in a car, or plot out where a house is going to be built. It goes back to the estrogen based parasites again...

 

I just wanted to throw in my two cents... the disgust I feel towards those girls in that video is overwhelming...and the fact that they're even SMILING like it's a JOKE. I could rant on about that forever...

 

Wow thank you for your openness and honesty. I admire your humility in being able to admit to this.

Hi Casey. I like what you say about how disgusting that female behaviour is, but then you go on to say men and women cannot be just friends, which is not what I was expecting at all, if you think it is somehow morally wrong to take advantage of the other sex.

 

I know I can be friends with men, as I am, and that is a result of morality and truth being more important to us than sex--and obviously the universality of morality and virtue transcends gender or age... This is also the reason I do not look for sex in a "boyfriend" or "husband" anymore, as I realise how those concepts are linked to these exploitative needs.

 

So, summing up, what you say seems contradictory, and might be because you are still doing that which you condemn. Don't you think?

 

What do you offer your male friends in return for their supportiveness and possible finances?

I'm going with the "yes, men can have female friends." So what if there's sexual tension there. I have gay male friends and we joke around and I suspect there's some tension there at least from a couple of them. I know one asked a mutual friend if I was gay because he wanted to hit on me. For me it comes down to one thing - respect. If I have a female friend and there's not to be any "with benefits" we just don't go there. Same thing with my gay guy friends. They know I'm straight and it would never work out so beyond a few innuendo's here and there that's it. It's similar with girls I know who are married. There's one I work with that I would ask out in a heartbeat if she wasn't married. I won't ever cross that line. So my single and dating female friends just go in that unavailable section of my mind that married women go into. As Buford T Justice once said "You can think about it, but don't do it..."

 

I also have a few ex-girlfriends that I still see. We just weren't compatible and after a cool down period, since we run in similar social circles we'll hang out and chat if we run into each other. Hell, one of my ex's is going through almost the same thing I'm going through with my mother and I spent a few hours talking and listening to her the other night because her fiance was tired and he doesn't really understand. I have another friend that when I call and her husband answers the phone he'll says "hold on, I'll get your girlfriend for you" and in the background I hear him say "Steph, your BF's on the phone..." I think we all knew if the situation were different I'd be all over her. 

 

It's like that with my brother. He has a huge social circle and he's good friends with the wives of his guy friends. There are some women he has dated over the years, but never went beyond a 2nd or 3rd date, but he keeps in contact, and even has some good business relationships with some some women. I think it's totally possible for guys to have female friends, whether it's implicitly or explicitly expressed that it stays platonic.

[tjt]

I'm a lesbian and I have never had close female friends, nor I seek one. Because why seek only a friend when you could get the whole deal. As a child I found it confusing heterosexual women had this custom of being almost synchronized with their "best friend" or friend clique - men could change between situations and groups and remain themselves but women, always together never going anywhere by themselves. Women in general seem more boring. Interestingly enough I've still had the most stimulating conversations with women, but that dates ten years back in my life when I was in middle school.

 

The other was my first friend from internet and the other my teacher, both of which I shared my life story the first time ever and spoke with bigger things. I had had two-three "friends" in school and nurseries before but I never really shared anything with them, I mostly listened and made comments to fill gaps in their speech so I would not have to speak anything - I was terrified of that and I became even more terrified when I understood what it means that I don't like men romantically and sexually like other women did. With men I find it easier to share my life story with, with women it's like constant wait "if the Queen is on the mood to hear what's going on in your life".

 

Of course in my family sharing your emotions and personal history wasn't done in any shape of form, only trivial things like which school they went etc. But as I've now learned, that's more common than it's rare. With men I can in general discuss things like philosophy, history, music, psychology, art, economics, politics but with women real discussion is much harder to find at all. Women get more easily offended in my opinion if you bring any real things on the table, because the table is already set with their direct short term needs. Does this come down to the estrogen based parasite model?

 

From only reading this, it sounds you don't have anything good to say about females. Like you don't find them to be very virtuous... yet you are a lesbian. I don't understand.

[...]

. 

[Brentb]

I suppose if you only interview college kids you'll come to the conclusion that men and women cannot be just friends. If the interviews had been conducted in a nursing home, they may have come to the opposite conclusion - that men and women can ONLY be friends.

 

The more hormones you have pumping through your system, then the harder it will be to have a true friendship.. 

[P. Mason]

Females or friends who you may become sexually interested in be they male, female whatever.

 

The answer is no.

[Eva]

I know of at least one that can.

 

Is it you? Be my friend! 

[Konstantinos_T]

It depends on both the personality of a female "friend" and the one's own personality. It is quite dangerous balance point. There is really no general rule and therefore no general answer that can be given in this topic, I think

[PatrickC]

This is also the reason I do not look for sex in a "boyfriend" or "husband" anymore, as I realise how those concepts are linked to these exploitative needs.

 

Hi Eva, I'm curious what you mean by these terms being exploitative exactly. And what are your thoughts on the terms 'wife' or 'girlfriend'?

[tjt]

Watching the video at the top of the post really made me feel disgusted. The girls knew that their guy "friends" liked them romantically/sexually and said "but we're friends" (paraphrasing of course). To put it into context, a girl knows she is attractive and uses that to have her guy friends who she can call upon when she is in need of support (ride to the store, emotional support, finances, handyman work, etc.). It goes right back to the podcast "Estrogen based Parasites" ... which was a HUGE mind-opener for me.

 

I totally had guy friends just for rides, finances, emotional support, technical stuff, etc. , and played them like a fiddle. I'd have boyfriends on top of having guy friends. These women (just as I did)  prostitute themselves for protection and support. The thing is, they know they do it (deep deep down)... but they won't admit to it. I realized what I was doing, found it downright horrible and then decided to change... I mean really, what guy hasn't been "friendzoned" and didn't go over and beyond for that girl just so he can date her someday... the girls know that. I guess a close metaphor would be a spearfisherman diving down to get a delicious grouper (the man) and a barracuda is lurking nearby (the woman). The spearfisherman spears the grouper, and as he is trying to take the fish off the spear, the barracuda comes in and snatches the fish. Thus in the end, the barracuda got an easy meal .... except the barracuda isn't manipulating the spearfisherman like women manipulate men.

 

So as I see it, men and women cannot be "just friends" ... otherwise the man is simply used for his support and the woman doesn't even need to use what she has between her legs, she can save that for her boyfriend then... and of course get support from her boyfriend/husband/lover as well. Back in the day, men would be the ones out in the fields or hunting and fishing while the women generally kept to the home and took care of the children... if a woman didn't have a man in her life her family would go hungry. As humans we are still biologically wired for that.

 

I had a very interesting conversation with my boyfriend last night, I brought up a topic similar to this, about women and men. He brought up a good point in viking history, where the women themselves would go into battle to protect their family... and of course the husbands and other men followed as well. Men and women once going into battle together, and how ruthless the vikings were in battle. Just as you never want to get between a mother moose and her calf, nobody would want to mess with the viking women. (please correct me if I am wrong) My boyfriend also brought up how most women don't want to "stand up" and fight. He told me how the girls were in his permaculture design course... at first they were very involved and asked questions but after the technical part of designing came up they got all quiet. I'm not saying ALL women don't like to do the hard and dirty work, but go back and think of how many women would want to change the oil in a car, or plot out where a house is going to be built. It goes back to the estrogen based parasites again...

 

I just wanted to throw in my two cents... the disgust I feel towards those girls in that video is overwhelming...and the fact that they're even SMILING like it's a JOKE. I could rant on about that forever...

 

Hi Casey, glad you shared your perspective! I'm wondering though, what are your intentions in being active on this forum (which is heavily dominated by males)? I am not looking to pass any judgment and am genuinely curious to hear your thoughts.

 

I only wonder because a lot of great conversation takes place here, and sometimes I think that is what friendship is... sharing your thoughts and ideas with someone and being open to hearing their thoughts as well... helping others build self knowledge and allowing them to help you... devoting time to this process... and enjoying it. I guess my question is, can you have deep conversations with people in absense of a friendship (even on an internet forum)? I really don't know the answer which is why I'm posing this question. Thanks in advance!

 

Maybe the question, then, to everyone on this thread, is how do you define friendship?