Anger of being happy

[Anuojat]

Hello, everyone.

 

I am hoping this goes to right board since i am not sure if this is the right one. Lets hope and see.

 

So, i am and ave been into self knowledge ever since i transitioned from being christian and socialist to who i am now (ancap).

 

But even before that and to this day ive had this nasty feelign inside me about getting angry when HAPPY or trying to achieve dreams and goals in life. I want X (painting, 3d modelling, learning a new skill and getting new friends ect.) However whenever i do theres sensation in me to recoil from this happiness.

 

Now i do realise this sounds very classic case of fear of failure and perhaps some remnant strong feeling of being led down and bullied in school and kindergarden at young age.

 

What are you thoughts on feelings of anger, feeling of recoiling from doing stuff that you dream or and slamming yourself down to be pitiful and miserable and procrastinate when you got the energy for it?

 

PS. Also theres often feeling to escape into games and drinks and fastfood and meneal things since the "dreams" or hobbies that i love are too hard and strainious. Its like person who paints one stroke at 1 hour just to feel good and avoid constant painting since... its hard and he cant feel good inside like he does with food. But when i actually DO IT for while i no longer feel urge to procrastinate.

[Pepin]

I just want to make sure I understand, when you do these things you do feel happy in the moment and then choose to stop doing what you are doing when you feel happy?

 

I get that sometimes with meditation. Like I'll start to feel really good, and then I have the strong urge to stop and do something stressful.

 

Pretty sure it is related to the Simon the Boxer metaphor, where we feel like we lose control when we aren't in an anxious state. When we start to move out of this state and experience something better, we become uncomfortable, like something isn't right, and usually revert to something that is going to put us back in that anxious state. Personally I find that I often try to stress myself out and make myself tired, likely because the process of relaxing is so much more difficult to deal with than the stress.

 

I also notice a habit of an instinctual refrain from experiencing and expressing positive emotions. Like my coworkers got me a cake and card for my birthday and I was really holding back how I was feeling. It is very strange because when I consciously realize I am doing it, I try to just let it all go and to experience it in full, but it is like a fight with the rest of me. It is somewhat similar to when you try to say something but it doesn't come out due to internal factors, like the classic example of the child not wanting to apologizing and saying "I'm so-... I'm sss, I'm... sor... [ect]"

[Anuojat]

I just want to make sure I understand, when you do these things you do feel happy in the moment and then choose to stop doing what you are doing when you feel happy?

 

I get that sometimes with meditation. Like I'll start to feel really good, and then I have the strong urge to stop and do something stressful.

 

Pretty sure it is related to the Simon the Boxer metaphor, where we feel like we lose control when we aren't in an anxious state. When we start to move out of this state and experience something better, we become uncomfortable, like something isn't right, and usually revert to something that is going to put us back in that anxious state. Personally I find that I often try to stress myself out and make myself tired, likely because the process of relaxing is so much more difficult to deal with than the stress.

 

I also notice a habit of an instinctual refrain from experiencing and expressing positive emotions. Like my coworkers got me a cake and card for my birthday and I was really holding back how I was feeling. It is very strange because when I consciously realize I am doing it, I try to just let it all go and to experience it in full, but it is like a fight with the rest of me. It is somewhat similar to when you try to say something but it doesn't come out due to internal factors, like the classic example of the child not wanting to apologizing and saying "I'm so-... I'm sss, I'm... sor... [ect]"

 

Well its before the activity starts actually.

 

It feels often like (and reminds me of) a defence mechanism and in relation with my school years.

 

Its was then like this: "Being happy, joyful and having dreams is stupid and must be crushed. Life sucks and stop being so nice and so happy and open."

 

Which was the attitute of many boys in my school, some girls too:

 

1. Self expression that wasnt vile was pussy and childlike. Imagination and being child was not cool and if one was nice to tohers then naturally one would get bullied.

2. General anguish towards being cutesy and happy little thing. (which i was and still try to be)

 

Its weird how that translates to well unto adulthood among other thigns, fear of failure. Fear of being made fun of. LEading to endless procrastinating self expression and doing the hobbies and activities that make me happy as a person.

 

Also it is very muhc aplified when thigns come to face whcih i must do, like cleaning, housework, finding jobs and other daily tastks healthy or otherwise.When i feel like drawing which i love, or writing or ANYHTING i like at all. The feeling comes unto forfront and tries to drag me to cold and boring place which is like limbo. I want to achive dreams or atleast do the smaller stuff i want to do. Such as exersise and educating myself... but then candies cola, pizza, tea and bideo games and youtube videos are sooooo nicer to look at and eat up.

 

And "it" uses that as leverage to get me awaoy from working on my dreams.

 

I dont lack the fuel or engine, i lack the spark and momentun to keep me going WHILE being still happy in more ways than one, if i "JUST draw" i feek anxiety without some other activity behind me.

 

PS. Also to clarify on the relationship to school years, i was bullied for 6 years straight.

And nowdays when i actually dos tuff like exersise, clean the house, especially when search for job with contacts and enthusiasm i get internal anger.

Just anger and fury from doing stuff, its like being or dragon being forced out of its comfort zone! XD

[dsayers]

You've mentioned school twice and in a negative way. Do you view schooling as abusive? Are you arbitrarily angry at school itself or do you feel that anger towards the people that put you there? You spoke of fear of failure (in the context of being paralyzing) as if it's normal. I think this is something that somebody who was into self-knowledge wouldn't say.

[Anuojat]

You've mentioned school twice and in a negative way. Do you view schooling as abusive? Are you arbitrarily angry at school itself or do you feel that anger towards the people that put you there? You spoke of fear of failure (in the context of being paralyzing) as if it's normal. I think this is something that somebody who was into self-knowledge wouldn't say.

 

Well the thing is school was full of bullying for me and mostly place where i had the worst time as a child, and no i am not angry at my parents sinc ein finland it is mandatory to be in basic school not just to pay for them. They did consider other options but were quite badly pushed to the wall, and have admitted that in light of everythign that happened it was miserable time. And in the school the experience was jsut as i descrived. I was the child who was optimistic and happy and joyful but many many other had abusive parents or jsut bad parenting households.

 

I though i was refering it it being COMMON fear, although you got me there: Ive never had fear of failure as long as i know, and for many it was common enough to feel like normal fear. And wait are you saying person having fear/s of some sort wouldnt have selfknowledge, now admittedly i am working on selfknowledge and having more clarity on it, maybe this is why the potential confusion?

 

PS. Fear of failure, fear of social dissapproval (mild these days), fear of failing and fear of dissappontment. I identify them as having them, isint self knowledge way of helping to overcome them? One tool out of many?

[dsayers]

no i am not angry at my parents sinc ein finland it is mandatory to be in basic school

 

So leave Finland? So take action when you find out your child is in harm's way? I disagree with your conclusion that your parents were helpless to protect you when that is explicitly their obligation.

[Anuojat]

So leave Finland? So take action when you find out your child is in harm's way? I disagree with your conclusion that your parents were helpless to protect you when that is explicitly their obligation.

 

Leave finland? You speak as if my parents knew better, they didnt. And infact they didnt know beforehand that school would suck for me or even did suck.

Leaving the country is nto something people casually think of atleast not in here, sure it might have been better i do not know, but being as they were its not like leaving is even remote though of since it where they had grown up to be thus faults of the system are/were not apparent.

 

Also the other aspect which i mentioned i see as the more import one to focus on, what do you think of that?

[dsayers]

Pardon my bias, but this seems like effort to avoid self-knowledge. I interpret what you're saying as they didn't endanger you, they were just incompetent in being able to prevent you from being endangered.

 

I can't force you into self-knowledge. I was asking because you spoke as if that was something you were interested in. Just be warned that whatever excuses you make for them, you'll allow for yourself with your own children.

[Anuojat]

Pardon my bias, but this seems like effort to avoid self-knowledge. I interpret what you're saying as they didn't endanger you, they were just incompetent in being able to prevent you from being endangered.

 

I can't force you into self-knowledge. I was asking because you spoke as if that was something you were interested in. Just be warned that whatever excuses you make for them, you'll allow for yourself with your own children.

 

How is one incompotent when one doest know that something is bad? They send me off to school jsut like everyone else did, you seem to imply that my parents when either of a better way or knew that school was goign to be bad for me. They were just as incompetant as any other parent who was duped, one cannot assign blame if the people involved though i was for the best and then were mistaken.

 

I am not making any excuses for anyone, i offering reasons why my parent did what they did. Did they want to put me in shitty schools? No, they though it was fine up until they saw that it wasnt working well (or in reverse ins some cases to be sure).

 

And by the by, self knowledge is somethign i seek and try to do every day. I dont see how i am avoiding self knowledge when i openly stated in my first post about possible reason why this is happening, and also wanted feedback on how to improve overcoming those obsticles. Which i mentioned in the first post too.

[dsayers]

How is one incompotent when one doest know that something is bad? They send me off to school jsut like everyone else did, you seem to imply that my parents when either of a better way or knew that school was goign to be bad for me. They were just as incompetant as any other parent who was duped, one cannot assign blame if the people involved though i was for the best and then were mistaken.

 

How much effort did they put into learning whether or not something is "bad" or "for the best"? Was "everyone else did" their only criteria? That strikes me as incompetent and irresponsible no matter what you're talking about.

 

Can you imagine somebody getting behind the wheel of a car and plowing into a crowd? Would "everybody else drives cars" be sufficient? Would believing one's actions to not be bad suffice? Or would you agree that getting behind the wheel of a car is an enormous responsibility that should only be undertaken by somebody who has familiarized themselves with the reality of their undertaking, its potential for catastrophe, how to prevent such things, etc?

[Anuojat]

How much effort did they put into learning whether or not something is "bad" or "for the best"? Was "everyone else did" their only criteria? That strikes me as incompetent and irresponsible no matter what you're talking about.

 

Can you imagine somebody getting behind the wheel of a car and plowing into a crowd? Would "everybody else drives cars" be sufficient? Would believing one's actions to not be bad suffice? Or would you agree that getting behind the wheel of a car is an enormous responsibility that should only be undertaken by somebody who has familiarized themselves with the reality of their undertaking, its potential for catastrophe, how to prevent such things, etc?

 

How much effort? This i do not know, most likely much effort in parenting itself but not research on schools and theyre effects. School was to them generally assumed to be best possible option. Is this flawed thinking? Well yes it is, but again there is a differance between being willfully ignorant and being raised in a place where going to public schools is the norm.

 

I would agree responceability driving a car is import since i and everyone around me care about the safety of such things.

The negative effects of public schools was not evident at all until it was too late, there was no information available that they could see. Did they search for training to be parents and child goign to school? Yup, but alas most of it was government or those in academia provided.

 

Look it sounds that youre asking me if my parents were incompetant parents? Not on every instance, but generally they were better than most. No violance, (almost) no shouting, spending time with us as kids. Did my parents really thought the idea of schooling trough? No they didnt. Did they assume that school was normal and natural part of life? Yup. There was no any consideration that schools maybe unneccery or harmful to us. If they knew that they would have recoiled from it.

 

So yes, when it came to certain things my parents did lack critical thinking skills to think outside the box and went with the herd simply because everyone was doing it too, they included as children. The very idea that public schools would be harmful for most people here is the same as saying that being healthy is bad. It is assumed to be good in itself and only some minor parts of it having potential bad traits.

 

Would we call this incompetance? Sure. Incompetance from being sheeple to social conformity and lacking in critical thinking on areas whos negative effects are obscured by the state and academia. My parents dont wish to be irresponceable but if there is no connection to reality on that front they wouldnt act.

 

I hope this clears it up.

[dsayers]

Look it sounds that youre asking me if my parents were incompetant parents?

 

No. I'm taking you at your word that you find value in self-knowledge and offering a viewpoint that casts light on what I feel to be a blind spot for you. I accept that I may be completely in the wrong as well as the fact that you are free to reject my observation even if I'm totally right.

 

I think that if somebody places you in a box without your informed consent and you are harmed in that box, the people who chose to put you there are accountable. This is especially true when you are dependent on those people and they voluntarily chose to take on the responsibility of NOT allowing you to be in harm's way for as long as you were incapable of providing that for yourself.

[Anuojat]

No. I'm taking you at your word that you find value in self-knowledge and offering a viewpoint that casts light on what I feel to be a blind spot for you. I accept that I may be completely in the wrong as well as the fact that you are free to reject my observation even if I'm totally right.

 

I think that if somebody places you in a box without your informed consent and you are harmed in that box, the people who chose to put you there are accountable. This is especially true when you are dependent on those people and they voluntarily chose to take on the responsibility of NOT allowing you to be in harm's way for as long as you were incapable of providing that for yourself.

 

Allright then.

 

They are accountable, they (or i) dont deny that. My parents did have the dignity to admit that, however what ive always so far in these posts (hopefully) made clear that they were not willfully ignorant or not chancing after they discovered this.

 

PS. Now, do you think after this i could inquire about the other half of the puzzle with regards to my selfknowledge or do you think the parental side was the one you wanted to contribute to and talk about?

 

The other side being the feelings of anger before happiness, and constant mental blocks to my dreams and pursuits in RL.