Ritchey Posted April 22, 2014 Posted April 22, 2014 I have a problem that I need some help solving. Some Background: I moved in with my niece to help with her 2 kids (ages 4 and 13) about 4 months ago. She was raising her girls with an iron fist and it was not working out well. She is a single mother and the children have different fathers. Neither one is involved other than paying child support. After many conversations about spanking, authoritarianism, and what to do instead she decided to use the methods taught by Parent Effectiveness Training (PET). It took a few weeks of talking and explaining to them that there were going to be changes and the reasons for those changes in an effort to help them understand and make the transition easier. It has worked wonderfully with the 4 yo, but not so much with the 13 yo. To protect their privacy I will be referring to everyone else involved by the 1st letter of their 1st name. Mother = K Oldest Daughter = J Youngest Daughter = L The Problem: The oldest daughter has been lying, manipulating, stealing, and breaking agreements. We worked out the issue of lying to avoid punishment by reassuring her over and over that she was not going to be punished and then showing her how to work out the problem. She is still lying to get what she wants. The Incident: Last Friday J wanted a friend to spend the night. Her mother told her no because she had broken an agreement the night before and they still had not come up with a solution for the broken agreement. J called me when her mom went into the gas station and told me that she worked out a deal with her mom and wanted to know if I had any problems with her friend coming over for the night. I expressed my concerns and we came up with a solution. When her mother returned, she told K that she had worked out a deal with me for the broken agreement and that I said it was ok for her friend to come over. Because of a previous engagement, J's friend need to be picked up in a hurry, so when the girls got home K and I talked. We realized what had happened and how we were played against one another. We talked to J and expressed our feelings. We explained that we are not going to honor deals that were made on the basis of lies. We explained to J's friend that we were upset, but it was not her fault. She understood and we called her parents to let them know that she was coming home. Later on J complained by declaring that it was not fair that her friend had to go home. We tried to start a problem solving session and were met with resistance. It was late, so we all agreed to work out the problem tomorrow. The next day we were met with sighs, shrugs, and answers to questions like "I don't know" or "I don't care". We told her that when she is ready to work out the issue to let us know. Sunday was Easter and even though we are atheists recovering from Catholicism, we still like to hunt for Easter eggs. We went to my mom's for the annual Easter egg hunt and had a great time. After everyone went home, my brother sent a mass text saying that his pricy headphones had gone missing. Through process of elimination it became apparent that it was either J or her friend (a different friend). We let J and her friend know that no one was going to get in trouble and that we just wanted to get the headphones back. They said they didn't know anything, so we gave them the benefit of doubt and tried to help my brother find his headphones. After searching everywhere we talked to J again. She claimed it was her friend and that her friend threatened to beat her up if she told any one. J's friend is significantly bigger and stronger than her and there have been incidents before that involved hitting, so we wanted to talk to everyone to get the facts. While talking to J's friend and her mother, J came clean and admitted that she took the headphones. K and I took some time to talk about how we were going to handle this. We decided that J needed to call my brother and mom (my mom was upset that someone had stolen something in her house) to explain to them what she had done, apologize, and reassure them that it would not happen again. J agreed and did it reluctantly. When we tried to problem solve the situation, we got more of the same. Sighs, shrugs, etc. We reminded her that nothing good will come from leaving this issue unresolved and that prompted a response of "I don't care". I told her "we've talked about trust and how important it is, so I'm not going down that road again. We've had several issues with this and I'm tired of getting my feelings hurt because of it. If you are not going to help us solve this problem, then I have no choice but to get things in writing from you.". She said, "fine" and tried to change the subject. I let her know that I was not happy about the way that I am being treated and went to another room to gather myself. When I came back a few minutes later, J had gone to her room. We still have not resolved the issue. Conclusion: I am at a loss on what to do. After thinking about it for some time, I believe she stole the headphones to get revenge for the incident that happened on Friday. I admit this is only a guess. J does not open up much and I only have evidence of past behavior, the facts, and empathy to go by. It's puzzling to me that she would steal headphones. She has 2 pair of headphones already, so it's not like she needs them. Both J and her mother are angry and resentful when it comes to this issue. How do I go about solving these problems when there is so much distrust? How do you build trust if no one is willing to trust one another?
Fast and steady Posted April 22, 2014 Posted April 22, 2014 I'm no expert on parenting nor am I an expert in any field that is qualified to dispense advice on this stuff, so feel free to take my thoughts with the tiniest grain of salt. Have you tried talking to J to ask her why she lies? Presumably she has felt mistreated by her mother and it sounds like things were pretty bad for her and her sister for most of her 13 years of life. I suspect that J isn't going to be quick to reveal how she truly feels based on the "I don't know" and "I don't care" tactics you've mentioned she uses. It will probably take a lot of prodding to get her to say what's on her mind, assuming you'll ever be able to get her to say it. She's probably afraid of the consequences of making it public. You haven't really said much about K's behavior (past or present), but could it be that J is simply modelling her mother's past behavior? Whether or not that's the case, she's clearly upset at her mother (and you might just be guilty by association or lack of prior involvement - "it's me against grownups becaue grownups have never been there for me when I needed them most"). I'm sure you realize that she's acting out because it's her way of expressing the hurt that has been inflicted upon her by K's past behavior. "Ruling with an iron fist" is fairly vague, but it gives me the impression that there was probably spanking, screaming, yelling, perhaps other forms of abuse such as neglect. Unrealistic expectations of her children, perhaps? It's obvious that she's angry about something. When someone says "I don't care", in my experience, it's not that they don't care, it's that they feel that no one else has cared about them or their feelings in the past and it hurt them. This makes me suspect feelings of neglect are not unreasonable to assume. Whatever you do, it's probably going to be paramount that you are always honest with J and never lie to her. Ideally you'd also get K on board with that and let J know that K's past behavior was also unacceptable. Perhaps get J's feedback on how her mother can make it up to her. J probably feels like you guys are ganging up on her and punishing her unfairly, seeing that her mother is essentially getting away with (mostly likely) pretty egregious past offenses. It will probably take time to earn J's trust, especially if K has a history of lying to her daughters or abusing them physically, emotionally, etc. Even if in the 4 months you've been around you and K have both been 100% honest with her, it's probably just not long enough for her to feel that she can trust you or her mother. 13 years of hurt and mistrust won't go away in 4 months. It may take years to prove to her that this new parenting style isn't just a fad... that things won't go back to the way they had been in a few months. You'll probably also need to keep soliciting her to give you feedback on how she feels. It will probably feel like you are talking to a wall for a while, but she needs to know you care.
Dylan Lawrence Moore Posted April 22, 2014 Posted April 22, 2014 Also, is she going to public school? Maybe trusting "parents" at home isn't enough if those trusting parents have regularly sent her to the Meat Grinder where's she surrounded by not only back-stabbing peers, but more dominating adults as well. If 90% of the adults she's dealing with are manipulative, maybe you two simply aren't making a big of enough impact to be a noticeable difference in her life.
Ritchey Posted April 23, 2014 Author Posted April 23, 2014 Thanx for the replies. They helped provide some perspective. We had a problem solving session today and J opened up more than she ever has before. It was a small opening, but at least we were able to get things headed in the right direction. You haven't really said much about K's behavior (past or present), but could it be that J is simply modelling her mother's past behavior? Whether or not that's the case, she's clearly upset at her mother (and you might just be guilty by association or lack of prior involvement - "it's me against grownups becaue grownups have never been there for me when I needed them most"). K used coercion in the form of threats of a spanking, sometimes using a belt. She has not used a belt in a few years, but the spanking didn't completely stop until I moved in. K took some time to convince that she needed to completely remove spanking. Before I moved in she tried different alternatives to spanking, but they were methods of extortion disguised as a new way of doing things. For instance, she would ground J, or take privileges, or threaten to send her away. K tried to integrate these alternatives and when they did not work, she would try new ones. She tried to do this with PET as well. When I first moved in we had an issue with the girls not wanting to talk to me. K and I decided that it would be best if I taught her the PET method and then she would teach the girls. We would have talks at the end of the day about what was good, what was bad, and make corrections along the way. I've been having trouble helping her realize that her use of force is hurting more than it is helping. We got to the point of L telling K that she hated her. K wanted to make a change so we decided that I would stop her and correct her when she tried to use force. K and I had a looooong talk this morning. I expressed my feelings about what was working and what was not. K has difficulty expressing her emotions in a clear and concise way, so I spent a lot of time active listening to her. It finally came out that K was afraid of giving up control over her children. She feared that her children would get their way and she would be the one getting used. She also admitted to me (and herself) that she is not capable of learning the PET method in this way. She felt guilty for the problems that her mistakes had caused and asked me if I would take over responsibility of teaching the children. This solution worked for k, L, and myself, but J would need some convincing. When J came home from school, I let her know that we wanted to try to resolve the problems that occurred over the past few days. She dropped her book bag on the floor and sat down with her arms crossed. I let her know that I want to be considerate of her feelings, so if she wanted some time to herself for a bit, I would understand. J got up and went to the kitchen without saying anything. She had a snack and came back to the living room when she was done. K asked J if she was ready to start and J responded "let's get it over with". I started out by asking her what she thought about how things went over the past few days. She replied with the answer I expected, "I don't know". I told her, "I don't like how things have gone. Your feelings got hurt, your mom's feelings got hurt, as well as mine. I don't like seeing you hurt and I want to do everything I can to make sure that I'm not the one causing you pain. I also don't want to be hurt either". She tried a new tactic today and pretended to be asleep. I had to take a second to think about how I was going to talk to her in a stern voice without yelling or giving the impression that I was about to yell. I said to her "J, I am trying to help you get what you want. It is not fair to me that I am trying to help you and you are treating me this way". A few seconds past and K said, "no one believes you are asleep. Can you please sit up and talk to us?". Several seconds went by and then I said, "If you aren't open to talking to me, then please say so. I do not like being treated this way. We need to resolve these issues and I need your help to do it". 20 - 30 seconds went by, she sat up, and then began to engage. I spent a few minutes talking about our 3 biggest problems. 1) lying, manipulating, and stealing. 2) the way we treat each other. and 3) trust. I asked her which she would like to start with and she said, "the way we treat each other". I asked her if she wanted to start with what was bothering her. She said no, so I started by telling her that I did not like the way that her mother has been treating her. I then told her that I let my emotions get the better of me and I did not like the way I had treated her when I told her that I would have to get things from her in writing. I explained to her that after some consideration, it was unfair to her that I get things in writing from her when eventually she did tell the truth. She started opening up after that. We talked for a little over an hour when she started to complain that this was taking too long. We decided to take a break until dinner (about 45 min). K left the room to clear her head. J asked me why I kept interrupting her mom and saying, "that's not UPB. We agreed we're not doing that". Normally I let K say what she is going to say and then let her know what I had a problem with. I would then offer solutions. J asked why I was doing it different now. I explained the agreement that K and I made. I went on to say that I wanted her input about it, but wasn't sure when it was a good time to bring it up because of the other problems we had to deal with. She said, "I don't want that". I told her that means we have another problem to solve. She said that she didn't want to discuss it and that she was not doing it. I reminded her that we all agreed to take a break until dinner and that I was only answering her questions. I told her if she would like to discuss what she is willing to do and what she is not wiling to do, it would have to wait until dinner like she proposed. She had a look on her face like, "what just happened!?" and then went to her room. I made dinner and we sat down to eat. It was difficult to get started because L (4yo) kept interrupting. We are working on the use of the words, "excuse me" with her. We explained what was going on in 4yo friendly terms and she decided that she would go to her room to play. After that we got stuck trying to brainstorm ideas on how to solve the trust issue. After about 10 min J and K were getting frustrated. I went on a small rant expressing how confident I was that we can solve this problem. We sat in silence for a few minutes. I told the girls that sometimes it helps me to gather my thoughts by saying them out loud. I asked them if listening to my thoughts would help them come up with ideas. They decided to try it. I started by defining what trust is and then talked about how we get trust and lose it. I got stuck in my thought process when I started asking myself, "how do we get trust when there is only distrust?". I kept repeating, "we have to know that others are going to do what they say they are going to do". I was saying it over and over so much that without realizing it, I was trailing off and dropping words all together. This statement eventually became "do what we do". I stopped talking for a moment and then proposed an idea. I said, "we need to clear the air. We need to talk about what hurt us and make commitments to one another to not do it again. After that, we give each other complete trust and we don't hold anything against each other that happened in the past". J liked the idea, but wanted an example of how it would work. I gave her an example and through active listening discovered that she did not want to talk about feelings this openly. I proposed that we start by leaving the feelings that made her uncomfortable out. We can start by simply acknowledging that we had done wrong. We would all take turns saying what we did not like and afterwards, we can take turns acknowledging what we had done wrong and apologized for hurting one another. At that point we will all make commitments to find ways of not hurting each other. I asked J if she had any concerns and she said, "no". K was concerned that this would be a one time thing and was afraid that after a couple of days it would be back to the same old same old. I reminded her why we check back to see if the solution is working. She agreed and we discussed when we would check on the solution and came up with every other day. I was concerned that the distrust would surface again so we came up with using a code word when we felt we were not being trusted. I brought up the fact that I was saying, "do what we do" and that if I kept removing words it would have became just "do do". We all chuckled a bit and decided to use "do do" as our code word. Everyone then agreed on this plan and we carried it out. We took a 10 min break and when we came back J wanted to solve a problem that her and her mother had about going to friends' houses. I asked her if we could talk about the issue that she had with me "being in charge". Her body language suggested that she was uncomfortable, so I told her that we need to solve the most important problems 1st, but it was her choice of what we talk about next. She asked me if it would take long. I told her that if she helps me it will go quicker. She thought about it for a second and then told me she doesn't want me to tell her what to do. I told her that I don't like the term "in charge" because everyone is in charge of themselves. I then explained the difference between "in charge" and authority. I used an analogy of going to the doctor. I told her that I don't get mad a the doctor for telling me that I have to take antibiotics when I get sick. She pointed out that I indirectly tell her what to do by limiting the kinds of movies that I will rent for her at redbox. Instead of trying to explain why I do that, I explained the difficult situation that I was in. I said to her, "I want you to be happy, but I don't want you to watch something that is going to hurt you". I then asked her what she thinks I should do. She said, "let me watch the movie". I replied, "but it will hurt you and I don't want to hurt you. She was having some difficulty understanding so I set up a scenario where she was in charge of her sister and L wanted to watch a movie that would scare her and give her nightmares. J said she would let her watch the movie and that if L had nightmares then that was her problem. I replied, "what if her nightmares caused her to wake you up? ". She said that she wouldn't let her watch the movie then. I asked her what she should do instead. J said that she could offer another movie for L to watch. I asked if that is what she wanted me to do with her. She replied, "yes". I made sure that she was ok with me being "in charge" and we came up with a code word to let me know when she feels like I am telling her what to do. When I asked who will check back to see how things are going, she said that she would. The next problem that we took on was J's friends. Before I moved in K had set up a rule that J was not allowed to go to friends' houses. K has been reading the book, "how to talk so kids will listen, how to listen so kids will talk". She has been doing well with understanding the concepts, but struggles when putting it into practice. I took the role of mediator/interpreter. I actively listened to them and then "translated" their wants and needs for the other. We worked out a deal for J to go to a girl's house that just moved in up the street. Everyone was tired from being put through the "mental ringer", so we ended the problem solving for the day. I realize that this is only the beginning of getting these issues solved, but I feel like we accomplished more tonight than we have in the past 2 months. I know there will be more issues and hurt feelings, but the way things have worked out today gives me hope. Thank you for the responses that I have received and I look forward to any feedback or advice that anyone may have.
Dylan Lawrence Moore Posted April 23, 2014 Posted April 23, 2014 Awesome work so far, Ritchey. It's really commendable that you've gotten so far with everyone and that you're making one more household not only safer for children to grow up in, but helping the parent get over her own obviously abused mentality. I also have to commend K for trying to so hard to change and being willing to go against the very grain of the way she thinks, even though it's so difficult. I have a few comments: 1.) Has K apologized for the specific things that she did to J growing up (belt-beating and so on)? You mentioned she apologized about some things but didn't get into detail. The reason I ask is, how can J know that K just doesn't have something hidden up her sleeve to backstab J later if K doesn't apologize for past wrongs? If this is the case, it looks like nothing can really be achieved until K apologizes to J for what she did (i.e. admit that she was wrong AND show that she does not intend to commit wrongs again in the future), because K's past actions simply trump whatever is coming out of her mouth in the present. 2.) It finally came out that K was afraid of giving up control over her children. She feared that her children would get their way and she would be the one getting used. Sounds like she's not aware of using negotiation to produce win-win situations; that is, she's stuck in the mindset that any time there is any sort of “conflict” there must be a winner and a loser, and she's not willing to be the loser. Have you brought this concept up to her, yet? 3.) I asked her if she wanted to start with what was bothering her. She said no, so I started by telling her that I did not like the way that her mother has been treating her. I then told her that I let my emotions get the better of me and I did not like the way I had treated her when I told her that I would have to get things from her in writing. I explained to her that after some consideration, it was unfair to her that I get things in writing from her when eventually she did tell the truth. She started opening up after that. I think this is a case-in-point for my first comment.. Once you admitted you were wrong you showed her that you weren't putting yourself on a pedestal above her and it was safe to communicate with you. 4.) She pointed out that I indirectly tell her what to do by limiting the kinds of movies that I will rent for her at redbox. Instead of trying to explain why I do that, I explained the difficult situation that I was in. I said to her, "I want you to be happy, but I don't want you to watch something that is going to hurt you". Just curious, how do you know which movies will and won't hurt her? What exactly do you mean by hurt? And in the end do you actually forbid her from watching certain movies, or do you just show disdain if she chooses one that falls out of your accepted list? Because if it's the former I would definitely say that's ordering about, while the latter ultimately places the decision in her hands. She was having some difficulty understanding so I set up a scenario where she was in charge of her sister and L wanted to watch a movie that would scare her and give her nightmares. I don't think the analogy of “You are to K as K is to L” is fair. A 13 year old is on the cusp of being able to take full responsibility for herself and her actions, whereas a 4 year old isn't even close. The 4 year old doesn't even have her rational mind accessible yet, let alone her moral one. 5.) The next problem that we took on was J's friends. Before I moved in K had set up a rule that J was not allowed to go to friends' houses. K has been reading the book, "how to talk so kids will listen, how to listen so kids will talk". She has been doing well with understanding the concepts, but struggles when putting it into practice. I took the role of mediator/interpreter. I actively listened to them and then "translated" their wants and needs for the other. We worked out a deal for J to go to a girl's house that just moved in up the street. That sounds like the most arbitrary, bullying rule that a parent could come up with. What was the purpose of that other than to piss J off and make her feel like she is in a prison? The reason I ask is because of your last sentence there “we worked out a deal”. What deal is there to work out? Going from 100% force (you can go to NO friends' houses) to 90% force (you can go to 1 friend's house) isn't any more of “working out a deal” than the mafia settling for $90 of protection money this week instead of $100. I apologize if I sound a little gruff about this comment, but I grew up in a household where “deals” like this were worked out with me and all it did was make me a seething, hateful liar. Great post! Keep us updated.
Ritchey Posted April 25, 2014 Author Posted April 25, 2014 1.) Has K apologized for the specific things that she did to J growing up (belt-beating and so on)? You mentioned she apologized about some things but didn't get into detail. The reason I ask is, how can J know that K just doesn't have something hidden up her sleeve to backstab J later if K doesn't apologize for past wrongs? K apologized for making mistakes when applying the PET method. She has already apologized for the years of spanking. I wasn't present for the conversation, so I can't give any details on what was said. My concern with her apology is that K said she was sorry, but then made excuses for why she did what she did. 2.) It finally came out that K was afraid of giving up control over her children. She feared that her children would get their way and she would be the one getting used. Sounds like she's not aware of using negotiation to produce win-win situations; that is, she's stuck in the mindset that any time there is any sort of “conflict” there must be a winner and a loser, and she's not willing to be the loser. Have you brought this concept up to her, yet? The issue is that K grew up in a household where the parents always won. She has never been exposed to negotiation before now. Her friendships, romantic relationships, work relationships, etc have all been win-lose. K hasn't acquired the negotiation skills needed yet. Her lack of skills is what she fears. J has also broken agreements. I do not fault her for this. K has changed the rules and made mistakes in the past 8-10 months. J would make an agreement and then when she didn't like something or she felt things weren't going her way, she would break her agreement. This is basically what K has done to her. K told J that they were going to change for the better and then it didn't. I see now why J is so skeptical. Just curious, how do you know which movies will and won't hurt her? What exactly do you mean by hurt? And in the end do you actually forbid her from watching certain movies, or do you just show disdain if she chooses one that falls out of your accepted list? Because if it's the former I would definitely say that's ordering about, while the latter ultimately places the decision in her hands. J likes horror movies. Horror movies cause anxiety, sleeplessness, fear, phobias, mental trauma, and behavior changes. She has been desensitized to some extent, but when she wants to watch movies like Saw or The Devil's Rejects, I tell her that I won't get movies like that for her. The 1st time the issue came up, I told her that the movie (I spit on your grave 2) was rated R and that she wasn't old enough to watch it. The 2nd time it happened, I let her know why it was inappropriate for her. She argued that she could handle it. She doesn't get scared. If she does, it's her problem. We went a few rounds arguing back and forth (civilly). Eventually, I told her that if she wanted to watch it, she would have to get it from someone other than me. From a 13 yo's perspective, I can see why she feels like I am telling her what to do. In hind sight, I think it may help to explain to her that not doing something is not force. I don't think the analogy of “You are to K as K is to L” is fair. A 13 year old is on the cusp of being able to take full responsibility for herself and her actions, whereas a 4 year old isn't even close. The 4 year old doesn't even have her rational mind accessible yet, let alone her moral one. Sorry, I didn't mean to give the impression that the scenario that I set up was "J is to K as K is to L". I explained it as, you are babysitting and L wants to watch one of your horror movies. That sounds like the most arbitrary, bullying rule that a parent could come up with. What was the purpose of that other than to piss J off and make her feel like she is in a prison? The reason I ask is because of your last sentence there “we worked out a deal”. What deal is there to work out? Going from 100% force (you can go to NO friends' houses) to 90% force (you can go to 1 friend's house) isn't any more of “working out a deal” than the mafia settling for $90 of protection money this week instead of $100. I apologize if I sound a little gruff about this comment, but I grew up in a household where “deals” like this were worked out with me and all it did was make me a seething, hateful liar. I agree. During my incarceration, I would receive corporal punishment, and then be grounded to the yard. More often than not, I would violate my probation and end up being grounded again. The corporal punishment would escalate and this time the prison walls would close in a bit tighter. The warden would proclaim that if I left the cozy confines of this lovely prison, I would be placed in solitary confinement. Inevitably, I would be brought up on more trumped up charges, beat, and then be thrown in the hole. I learned to take my ass beating from the guards and just go to the hole. Unbeknownst to the prison staff, they were only giving me time to plot the next prison riot. I think a bit of detail might clear this up. We live in a rough part of town and there aren't many kids within walking distance. There are only 2 kids that are J's age in the area that we know of. K's issues are maternal in nature. Her intentions are to protect J with this rule. That doesn't excuses the rule. It's definitely not the best way of dealing with the issue. The deal we made had to do with J's need to make new friends and K's need to protect J from danger. K wanted reassurance that J was getting to and from the friends house safely and meet the parents of this friend. J just wanted to try to make a friend. The deal that was made was J would bring her dog with her when she went to her friends house. J would also need to setup a meet n greet for the parents sometime in the next week. J would need to call or text her mom and let her know the girl's address. J would come home before dark at 7:45 pm. K has to get rid of the rule about going to friends' houses. J & K will create a new rule about going to friends' houses within 1 weeks time.
Ritchey Posted May 16, 2014 Author Posted May 16, 2014 Update: Since my last post J took money out of my wallet without asking. When confronted about it, she denied taking it. We went through the same old same old (if you took the money, it's ok. I just want to solve the problem). She denied taking it again. I used I-statements to explain my frustration with not getting the truth. She continued to lie. I got angry, slammed my hands on the table, and angrily said, "stop it! I know it was you! I just want the truth so we can solve the problem" After a few moments of silence, she said that I scared her. I apologized to her for slamming my hands down like that and asked if she wanted to take a small break. She said, "no" and we continued to talk. She admitted that she did it. I asked her why and she replied that she just wanted a soda. She already has an agreement with her mother to do chores around the house for an allowance. She has not been doing her chores, so she has not been getting paid. J and her mother have since had a conversation about the chores. More on that in a bit though. We've already had a few talks about how stealing is wrong, so I didn't go through it again. I explained to her what I expect and how it hurts me when she takes my stuff. She apologized and said she would not do it again. 2 days later, she went into my room while I was sleeping and raided my change bucket. I confronted her about it again. She denied that she did it. I told her that I didn't want to get into another situation like the last time. She admitted that she took the money, but only said that she took it cause she needed money. She wouldn't problem solve and the the only answers that I got from her was, "I don't know". I told her that it was unfair to me to be treated this way and that we needed to fix the issue. She said she would pay me back the money and went to her room. I later found out that she spent the money on chips and soda. J has an agreement with her mother to do various cleaning tasks around the house for money. Some tasks needed to be done daily and other are to be done weekly. After a week of not doing any of her chores ( and after she took money from me), J and K renegotiated. J said that she didn't like doing dishes, sweeping and mopping the kitchen, or doing laundry. They made a deal to do other chores and get rid of the ones she didn't like. This did not work. After a week, K confronted J about the unfinished chores. J said that she didn't want to do any of it. They had a problem solving session, but it was late so they agreed to postpone it until the next day. The following day, J went to a friends house without telling anyone where she was going and what time she would be home. This was part of another agreement they had. J came home just before bedtime and refused to talk about the problem. K went into her room and told her that she wasn't leaving until they figured out the issue. J listen to her mother talk about how she felt and then apologized. She said that she wouldn't do it again and then the next night, did it again. The next day, J and K had a conversation about trust and responsibility. J said that she would try to do a better job and that she was sorry. J has trouble waking up for school. She often wakes up late and her mother has to drive her to school. The day after their conversation about trust and responsibility, J woke up late and didn't wake her mother to drive her to school. On the way to school, K told J that she was very angry about the situation. K told her that they would have to have another conversation when J got home. J promised her mother that she was going to do better and that she was going to work really hard to not have any problems today. K and I were talking about how to handle this situation when she got a call from J's school. J had skipped class again. That made it the 3rd time this week, so she received a 2 day out of school suspension. J goes to public school, so I'm happy about her spending less time there. We're working on getting J out of public school and into home school. The issue that K and I have is that J is not keeping her word. J makes deals and then doesn't follow through. Things like, treating her sister well, feeding her dog, or being polite she is fine with. She does things that require little to no effort. When it comes to things that require anything more, she will not do them. When she is confronted on these issues, she lies and makes up excuses. After a confrontation, J may do what she agreed to for a couple of days (depending on the issue) and then stop. Other times she agrees to do things and then never does them. I think it's important to note that K raised J by spanking to correct issues. At the age of 7, J was kidnapped by child protective services because K's neighbor had an alligator. K was charged with child endangerment and it took her 2 years to get J back. Since then, K has given J anything and everything that she asks for (because of guilt). K would resort to spanking when J did things like steal or lie. I am stuck on these issues. From what I see, J will lie, cheat and steal to get what she wants. She is accustomed to getting what she wants and the conversations that we have had about these issue have no effect. I've tried the approach from the PET book that suggests that you should confront the child using I-messages and then reaffirm that the no lose method requires that everyone is expected to be self-disciplined and responsible. Both K and I have tried this approach and it has not worked. K is losing her patients and tries to revert to removing privileges or grounding. It has not happened yet because I've been able to talk K out of it, but I don't think my words will matter much if J continues to act this way. Last night, J suggested that she would go to counseling to help solve her problems. This was a ploy though. J wanted to hang out with her friends instead of talking with her mom. K told me how this solution came about and I pointed out that this was a pattern that J has been repeating over and over. She tells her mom what she thinks she wants to hear to get what she wants and then doesn't follow through. We all made a rule that if we are tired of talking or would like to postpone a problem solving session, then all we have to do is say something. I don't see the reason J would do this. I would like her to see a therapist, but I'm afraid that she will lie and nothing will be accomplished. The only solution that I've come up with is that J would have to complete her part of the agreement before she gets her needs met. I've already proposed this idea to J and she doesn't like it. That tells me that she will shut down and stop participating in problem solving. Then to get what she want, she will lie, cheat, and steal. So, what do you do with a child that is accustomed to getting what they want and does not consider the wants and needs of others? If anyone has any ideas, I am desperate to hear them.
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