"Think Like Somebody's Listening"

[MysterionMuffles]

This is a line of thinking that has helped me for the past few years. The rationale behind is that if I keep this in mind, I filter out the negative thoughts that are detremental to my well being, and of course, filter out the dark thoughts that would invite scrutiny.

 

I'm hoping to see what others think of this. Is it beneficial to think this way? Do you need more clarification on what I mean? Or hell, do you think it's complete poppycock and you can tell me why?

[Lians]

How is this different from the religious self-policing of thoughts? How do you know that your negative thoughts are detrimental to your well being?

[Wuzzums]

Assuming it does work, as in you will gain more confidence if you filter out self deprecating thoughts or something to this effect. How can you go about achieving this? Filtering out bad thoughts implies having those bad thoughts in the first place.

 

Not saying it's impossible. I was into NLP a long time ago and there was this theory, or technique more like it, that said that if you consciously repeat some thought pattern it will eventually become a subconscious process. Sort of like a conditioned reflex regarding thoughts. I'm kinda skeptical of this because the implications are enormous. If it's true then no self knowledge is ever required to change oneself, just practice.

[Pepin]

I would agree with the critique of the use of language. You do not wish to filter anything, as that is simply repression. Rather you want to be aware of any and all thoughts you are having so you can address them. Communicate with the part of you that is having that negative response, and understand it. If the negative response only serves to stress you out, reason with the part.

 

There are negative thoughts that are legitimate and serve a great purpose that you want full access to. There are also negative thoughts that only stress you out. If you are playing pool and continue to miss easy shots and become quite angry and curse, this is not an appropriate response as all it is doing is making the experience unenjoyable. On the other hand, if you meet someone and they say some things that illicit negative thoughts about yourself or that person, this is quite vital in deciding if you ought to interact with them again.

 

How do you know that your negative thoughts are detrimental to your well being?

 

There is a great deal of scientific research that demonstrates the effects of negative thoughts. I found some articles real quick, but I recommend looking into it.

 

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-living/stress-management/in-depth/positive-thinking/art-20043950

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/owning-pink/201308/the-nocebo-effect-negative-thoughts-can-harm-your-health

http://www.drmilhem.com/articles_thoughts.htm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-clear/positive-thinking_b_3512202.html

 

The idea of positive thinking is not to repress negative thoughts, but to modify them through reframing. An example of this might be getting stuck in traffic for a couple of hours due to an accident, and instead of thinking "uhhh, this ruins my day, this sucks so much", reframing the event to "oh great, now I can listen to that album I have been meaning to hear", or "hey, this gives me time to call my good friend who I haven't talked to in ages".

 

The experience of negative emotions is not seen as bad, yet rather quite important because of the information they are conveying.

 

There are certain groups that take it into the wrong direction, like you ought to feel compassion for and forgive those who do you harm, but the meme I've been hearing a lot lately is to get these people out of your life because they are a psychological drain.

 

Not saying it's impossible. I was into NLP a long time ago and there was this theory, or technique more like it, that said that if you consciously repeat some thought pattern it will eventually become a subconscious process. Sort of like a conditioned reflex regarding thoughts. I'm kinda skeptical of this because the implications are enormous. If it's true then no self knowledge is ever required to change oneself, just practice.

 

I would claim that this is false because it takes an awareness of a problem to address it. The strategy I've been seeing most often in NLP circles is to become aware of your own patterns, to analyze what purpose they serve for part of you, to decide if this is a pattern you wish to continue, and if you choose to change to implement various methods of undoing the conditioning.

 

A lot of NLP is centered around becoming aware of and deconditioning negative patterns in your life. It is also centered around modeling, where you become aware of patterns and behaviors in others that you want, and apply a method to achieve the goal.

 

It is true that some people who are NLP advocates will claim that you can achieve everything through modeling and changing your thoughts, but in my research over the last month this doesn't seem to be the norm.

 

What I was surprised to find is that they have a model of the mind and methods of dealing with parts that is quite similar to IFS. It isn't that much of a surprise as a lot of NLP is based in Gestalt therapy.

[dsayers]

What is a "negative" thought?

 

I don't think thoughts can be negative. Acting on harmful thoughts is. I think having a harmful thought and not acting on it makes for good practice. It also aides in self-knowledge and self-control. Scratch that, I think it's absolutely essential for self-knowledge.

[MysterionMuffles]

I'm talking purely of thoughts that are of self doubt and self deprication. Sometimes even judgement calls of people on the street. I used to look at people and make random quips about them, and it's like, it would suck if they actualy heard what I was saying lol.

 

How it's different from religious thinking is that it's not a filtering in a shaming sense. But just in line with the whole idea that your thoughts shape your experience of the world to some degree. There's a lot of objective reality you can't control of course, but there are also so many things in life that can either give you a positive or negative experience based solely on your perceptions on them.

 

 

Assuming it does work, as in you will gain more confidence if you filter out self deprecating thoughts or something to this effect. How can you go about achieving this? Filtering out bad thoughts implies having those bad thoughts in the first place.

 

Not saying it's impossible. I was into NLP a long time ago and there was this theory, or technique more like it, that said that if you consciously repeat some thought pattern it will eventually become a subconscious process. Sort of like a conditioned reflex regarding thoughts. I'm kinda skeptical of this because the implications are enormous. If it's true then no self knowledge is ever required to change oneself, just practice.

 

When it comes to introspecting for the sake of self knowledge, thinking like somebody's listening can prevent you from doing this in a self attacking way. A reason why I created this idea is because I caught myself talking to myself out loud one time, around neighbours. This was years before I became comfortable with the idea of audio journalling and not giving a second thought of what people thought of me when I was intentionally thinking out loud. What helps for me in not having to whisper when I have a certain thought to verbalize is this idea of thinking like somebody's listening because literally, someone WAS listening. If you're compassionate with yourself in your inner dialogue and if someone was listening while you had those inner dialogues, you would convey that you are honest insofar about your downfalls, but you're compassionate when it comes to reprogramming your thoughts.

 

The idea of positive thinking is not to repress negative thoughts, but to modify them through reframing. An example of this might be getting stuck in traffic for a couple of hours due to an accident, and instead of thinking "uhhh, this ruins my day, this sucks so much", reframing the event to "oh great, now I can listen to that album I have been meaning to hear", or "hey, this gives me time to call my good friend who I haven't talked to in ages".

 

The experience of negative emotions is not seen as bad, yet rather quite important because of the information they are conveying.

 

There are certain groups that take it into the wrong direction, like you ought to feel compassion for and forgive those who do you harm, but the meme I've been hearing a lot lately is to get these people out of your life because they are a psychological drain.

 

 

I would claim that this is false because it takes an awareness of a problem to address it. The strategy I've been seeing most often in NLP circles is to become aware of your own patterns, to analyze what purpose they serve for part of you, to decide if this is a pattern you wish to continue, and if you choose to change to implement various methods of undoing the conditioning.

 

Thanks for your understanding, I will check out your links as well. Positive thinking doesn't make everything in life, for sure, but it sure as hell helps with a few things like those trivialities you mentioned. Being stuck in traffic or a slow line at a store etc.

[JamesP]

A negative thought is serving a purpose. "Think like somebody's listening," is important, but it's only one piece of the puzzle.

 

Listen to your thoughts with curiosity. They are trying to tell you something. If they keep saying the same things, you haven't yet gotten the message.

[Pepin]

A negative thought is serving a purpose. "Think like somebody's listening," is important, but it's only one piece of the puzzle.

 

Listen to your thoughts with curiosity. They are trying to tell you something. If they keep saying the same things, you haven't yet gotten the message.

 

To push back a little, the purpose of a certain class of negative thoughts might be related only to the circumstance, and not so much information about yourself. A continual occurrence of a particular type of thought likely indicates something, but if the thoughts being generated fit the circumstance, it is difficult to argue that you ought to look into it much more.

 

As an example, Stefan told a story about when he was in Cali of how his daughter wanted to look at every single rock she saw. This elicited negative thoughts such as "wow, can't we go any faster", "does she really need to look at every rock", "uhg, this is so boring and tedious". This frustration isn't bad as it can be expected with the given stimulus, and its source is easily identifiable, which is to say that self-knowledge work isn't needed. It isn't beneficial to dwell on these thoughts, yet rather it is best to change your mindset to change your state.

 

There is a psychological bias for us to pretend we have control over what we do not, and the result of this is often reacting in a way as if we had control. This isn't bad as it is just the result of evolution, but it can create unnecessary negative thoughts and emotions. Realizing what we can control and can not control is important to avoiding falling into this psychological bias. For instance, if stuck in traffic, you have no ability to affect the speed of traffic through getting annoyed, angry, or beeping the horn. Yet, people will create an illusion of control as a means of dealing with the circumstance, which is not only is not productive, but also stresses you out. This behavioral bias indicates little to nothing about you and is completely normal, these negative thoughts serve a purpose, but the purpose is irrational.

 

As a final example, it is common for people to think in terms of negations, as in "don't mess up". Conceptually there isn't a problem with this, but psychologically it has a negative impact on performance and mood. These are negative thoughts in that they focus on a negative outcome as opposed to a positive one, and are unwanted because they indicate little about your self-knowledge. It is quite normal to think in these terms as it is the most direct, but since their effects tend to be negative, it is best to condition yourself to use language which focuses on positive goals. A good example of this from my own life is thinking "don't have a panic attack". What does this indicate about me? That I do not wish to have a panic attack, nothing really more. What is the effect? An escalation of the panic sensations. It is far more productive to stop yourself from thinking in these negative terms, and to instead think "take a deep breath, relax, you are in a safe environment, you are in control of your body".

 

I think it should be clear that I am in general agreement with you in regard to many negative thought patterns, but I would argue that many of these patterns can be considered meaningless and serve no purpose outside the context of the situation. In my own observation of myself and others, these thought patterns are all over the place, and have pretty negative results in terms of stress. I invite you to observe people and yourself for a week or two to check this for yourself.

 

My primary argument is that these thoughts are normal to have, that they indicate little about yourself, that changing these thoughts through reframing and particular word usage is the best method, and that this class of negative thoughts are common enough to warrant a differentiation from the class of negative thoughts you are talking about.

I'm talking purely of thoughts that are of self doubt and self deprication. Sometimes even judgement calls of people on the street. I used to look at people and make random quips about them, and it's like, it would suck if they actualy heard what I was saying lol.

 

How it's different from religious thinking is that it's not a filtering in a shaming sense. But just in line with the whole idea that your thoughts shape your experience of the world to some degree. There's a lot of objective reality you can't control of course, but there are also so many things in life that can either give you a positive or negative experience based solely on your perceptions on them.

 

Thinking about it is likely to help. A strategy I like to use is to think about a problem rationally in conjunction with reflecting on my past. You might come to the conclusion that self-deprecation is not only negative, but also completely irrational for any human to do, and then you can look at your past to identify why you act in this way. Following the money is a good approach, as in who benefited from putting these thoughts in your head.

 

As an example, I used to care about complete idiots and douches opinion. On some level, I realized that this wasn't rational because they were beyond irrational, but their opinions of me still had an affect on my mood. After spending a few hours over the course of a week thinking about this, it just became so obvious to me how it didn't make sense for me to even listen to these people. I then began to think about why I listened to them and let it affect me, and of course this goes into childhood stuff. I used to get crazy long lectures about how I was a bad kid and how I was going to go to hell, and I had to listen and to take it seriously otherwise I'd be hit. There is also the social component to it where being ostracized by your "tribe" is going to affect you regardless of your opinions of them.

 

Anyway, with enough work on this, I am pretty immune to being affected by idiots. I believe the last interaction I had of this type was pretty interesting in that I just didn't care about what the person was saying, it was almost like I wasn't even listening. I placed no value on the person or their words, and if I remember right, at the end they seemed sad and didn't interact with me again. 

[cynicist]

I'm talking purely of thoughts that are of self doubt and self deprication. Sometimes even judgement calls of people on the street. I used to look at people and make random quips about them, and it's like, it would suck if they actualy heard what I was saying lol.

 

How it's different from religious thinking is that it's not a filtering in a shaming sense. But just in line with the whole idea that your thoughts shape your experience of the world to some degree. There's a lot of objective reality you can't control of course, but there are also so many things in life that can either give you a positive or negative experience based solely on your perceptions on them.

 

I think I know what you mean, but I take a different approach. Rather than filter them I confront them head on. If I am talking to someone for example and I say something embarrassing which leads to self-criticism like "Well that was dumb", I like to respond with, "Well then WHY DID YOU LET ME SAY IT?!". 

 

Or if it's something like, "You're a coward", then I don't let that idea linger. I follow it up with, "Where's the evidence for that? You aren't going to just label me and hide."

 

I think you have the right idea in not letting yourself get stuck in a cycle of self-attack and cascading negative thoughts but I think there are better ways to handle them than filtering. (curiosity and confrontation are my personal favorites) 

[MysterionMuffles]

Oh that's awesome Cynicist. Yeah I can integrate that line of thinking with mine. Think like somebody's listening really is about how you negotiate with yourself and how you react to your parts, more specifically your inner critic. If I seemed like I just ignore negative thoughts and I'm contradicting myself, I apologize. But there are some negative thoughts you can easily discard and not face any reprecussions. However, when you think like somebody's listening, how you think in moments of self doubt is indicative of how you treat yourself. To be curious and confront yourself in a compassionate way like you've outlined, is in line with what I mean. 

[cynicist]

Oh that's awesome Cynicist. Yeah I can integrate that line of thinking with mine. Think like somebody's listening really is about how you negotiate with yourself and how you react to your parts, more specifically your inner critic. If I seemed like I just ignore negative thoughts and I'm contradicting myself, I apologize. But there are some negative thoughts you can easily discard and not face any reprecussions. However, when you think like somebody's listening, how you think in moments of self doubt is indicative of how you treat yourself. To be curious and confront yourself in a compassionate way like you've outlined, is in line with what I mean. 

 

Oh I see now. The word filter threw me off, I kept thinking suppression. You mean more like letting negative thoughts pass in order to avoid becoming trapped in a cycle right? Sort of like not taking them as legit problems that you need to panic over, but the results of trauma that they are. Yeah I think that is an acceptable way to handle it and that's how I began at first. I think that's how you are forced to begin because the critical voice can be so overwhelming. I remember being so stressed out about doing an interview with a manager that I would work myself into a panic before I even saw the guy.

 

I think eventually when things calm down a bit more in your head you get the freedom to switch from the passive mode of letting things pass to trying out more active communication with yourself. You can't always take the time to work through everything, for example at work, so the passive mode is great for dealing with customers or situations that are too stressful to really focus, but I generally prefer engaging my parts when I can.

 

Let me know if I'm still misunderstanding you.

[MysterionMuffles]

Yeah exactly. Also learning to discern between which negative thoughts are worth exploring, or if they're just random paranoias that hold no weight to reality.

 

You totally got it. I can see why filter could mean suppression, but not at all. If it's a recurring negative thought, that's when I think it's worth exploring.