Omegahero09 Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 So I have been thinking a long time about creating a community- somewhere nice and rural. A place where we, being the anarchists that we are, go to live full time as anarchists. A place hidden, where we don't sign, or acknowledge federal papers, where we don't live by rules imposed on us by anything we don't choose to follow; we just live. But I don't know how risky a process this is. How would the country we steal away in, react to our folded arms to anything but trade, peaceful talks and voluntaryism? If careful enough, could we be established enough to invoke sympathy from the well meaning civilians of said country and perhaps change some minds, or at least develop a sympathetic voice in the statist systems there? I'm tempted to think it's possible... but I don't know... I know I would certainly want to move to Anarchyville if there were enough people there to stand with. What does the forum think?
tjt Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 I don't want to rain on the parade... and who am I to say what is possible. It sounds awesome, but I don't think it would fly. People try anarchism on a small scale and seem to always get screwed. Just look at the Bundy guy, not complying and being full on attacked by the military police or SWAT or whatever organization came after him fully armed. Sure they backed off, but Bundy's family was tormented and harrassed and still has to look behind their backs constantly. Or consider the event in Waco, TX. A nonviolent religious group trying to live by their own rules, only to be massacred by the police. And how about Ruby Ridge, an even smaller group of people (just a small family) trying to live life by their own rules. Their CHILDREN were murdered by the state. Think of it personally, on a smaller scale... you build a shed in your backyard without getting the permits or not placing it far enough away from your fence to meet code. It's found out and you get fined a few hundred or more. If a whole community of people are ducking out of the system, those running the system will get angry and try to make an example out of that community. I speak as though I know for sure this is what would happen, but I really don't. Those are just the first things that came to mind. There have been some successful 'anarchist' societies but they have to relocate outside of the U.S. (I'm assuming you are in the U.S. because of your avatar.. hope I'm not being naive). Now, someone enlighten me with a more optimistic answer to this question!!!
Ancient Mariner Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Have you already looked into the Free State Project in New Hampshire? If so, do you have any criticism of it?
TheMatrixHasMe Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 At the risk of sounding like a kill joy, there is little that one can do to escape the effects of statism at this time in history. Thanks to the creativity of the free market, the grip of statism is not as tight as it has been at times in the past. To acquire freedom, some might suggest that you work to acquire as much self-knowledge as possible. That may reduce your current desire/ feeling that you need to hide in order to be free. As far as addressing you question more directly, there are places like http://galtsgulchchile.com, or http://freestateproject.org that have interesting ideas about how to obtain freedom and to live peaceful voluntarist "lifestyles." Maybe the links above can provide a framework or springboard for your own creative ideas and approaches, or relocate to join those communities.
dsayers Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Guys, anarchy is all around you. When you go to the store, there are people all around you. They don't run into each other despite no police being there to stop it. You say excuse me, sorry, thank you, please, you're welcome, etc and so does everybody else. Yes, when you check out, the State steps in and takes their cut. However, when not directly being actioned in this fashion, you are living in anarchy. The sooner we get people looking at their own lives instead of talking about these things as if they're in the abstract, the sooner we can begin to give peace a chance.
Jagsfan82 Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Guys, anarchy is all around you. When you go to the store, there are people all around you. They don't run into each other despite no police being there to stop it. You say excuse me, sorry, thank you, please, you're welcome, etc and so does everybody else. Yes, when you check out, the State steps in and takes their cut. However, when not directly being actioned in this fashion, you are living in anarchy. The sooner we get people looking at their own lives instead of talking about these things as if they're in the abstract, the sooner we can begin to give peace a chance. But the state allows that environment of law and order to happen. If there was no state no one would go to the cash register they would just walk out the front door
doglash Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 But the state allows that environment of law and order to happen. If there was no state no one would go to the cash register they would just walk out the front door And then they'd turn around and walk back to the register when a shotgun was pulled from underneath it.
TDB Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 So I have been thinking a long time about creating a community- somewhere nice and rural. Google "intentional community" anarchisthttp://www.strike-the-root.com/51/lg/lg1.htmlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anarchist_communitiesNot all that encouraging.Maybe try to figure out what or who stops you from being free. Then evade that or outsmart it.
tjt Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 But the state allows that environment of law and order to happen. If there was no state no one would go to the cash register they would just walk out the front door Would you prefer to steal someone else's property and are just holding back because there is a "government"? I don't know many people who would. A grocery store in my town already hires it's own private security right now, it does not rely on the police to keep it's property safe. I lock my bicycle up when I take it out, I'm not going to rely on the police to find my stolen bike (they never would be able to anyways). I lock my car door when I take that out, too. Why would it be any different in a stateless society? Anyways, the government is the greatest thief to the grocery store currently. Paying 20% (does anyone have a better estimate) in income taxes is a bigger hit to the company than losing 1-5% (again, better estimate needed) of inventory to the occasional klepto. I admit I'm not sure on the percentages, but I know inventory shrinkage is significantly lower than tax rates. Chime in if you can give better figures! Ok, I did a little research. Whole Foods had a tax rate of 37% in 2011 (40.5% in 2010). (https://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/sites/default/files/media/Global/Company%20Info/PDFs/Q211financial.pdf) Now I couldn't find their exact loss to inventory shrinkage in those years, but I did find a study by the University of Florida that reports "annual percentages of retail shrinkage have fluctuated from a high of 1.51 percent in 2009 to a low of 1.41 percent in 2011." (http://yourbusiness.azcentral.com/typical-annual-inventory-shrinkage-8878.html) So, theft would have to increase by more than 25 times in a free society to put Whole Foods in a worse position than they are today. Not going to happen. Unless a quarter of the people who shop at Whole Foods are just like you @Jagsfan82, and are only holding back from stealing because of the government's "laws."
RyanT Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 I reckon dsayers on the money here, The concept of voluntarist living openly in close proximity to each other is an absolutely brilliant idea, but the minute we translate that into; 'but first we must buy-up some tiny village in the middle of nowhere, .....so we can avoid paying property tax' It just becomes another fantasy we can fall back on, to avoid examining how our own lives hold up to our professed ideals.
dsayers Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 But the state allows that environment of law and order to happen. If there was no state no one would go to the cash register they would just walk out the front door How do you know? Are you saying that YOU would walk right out the front door? Do you think without a State, such an action would have no consequences, both in the moment and later on? How do you square the circle of we need the State to steal from us to prevent theft from occurring? How do you explain the theft that takes place with a State in place? What exactly does the State do to "allow" "law and order" to happen?I post these questions for the benefit of others. Last time you responded to something I said, you summarized my words as "lots of stuff." Which tells me you're only seeking confirmation of your bias. Ironic since your intro to this forum involved the inability to influence others and inefficient use of one's time in trying.
tasmlab Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 But the state allows that environment of law and order to happen. If there was no state no one would go to the cash register they would just walk out the front door Does anyone else feel the urge to buy something from a business they entered just to use the bathroom? I do. Does anyone else tip when you go the coffee or ice cream shop? I do. Does anyone here give to charity? Or donate to a podcast series you can totally get for free with total anonymity? I doubt doglashes shotgun would even have to come out too often. Edit: I just noticed that there is precisely one person on this thread who has skipped the FDR cash register and just walked out the front door.
Omegahero09 Posted May 1, 2014 Author Posted May 1, 2014 Damn maybe it is as grim as we fear it is currently. I knew of Galt's Gulch Chile, but not of freestateproject. Seeing your guys' responses makes me think that perhaps the best way to attempt to peacefully exist apart from the state is to secede from the presiding country on some level. Be that from a neighborhood level, or state/province level, or somewhere in between. And dsayers, you've got it right on the money man. But the state allows that environment of law and order to happen. If there was no state no one would go to the cash register they would just walk out the front door Ooof, careful man. Bandit-minded people may attempt to do this, but not civilized rational folks. Anecdotal time! I will go out on a careful limb here and tell you I work for a pharmaceutical (the irony!) company- in a city between the ghetto and middle-class suburbs. The state is absolutely responsible on every level for the defense and dispute resolution of persons and property except for immediate self-defense. This means- if while I'm going about my business stocking shelves and I see a guy walk up to a coke cooler, take out a sprite, and walk out the door- I can't legally chase him, or even accuse him of stealing or myself and my company could be taken to court for harassment. And since the government operates on a "patching" resolution level instead of prevention, this creates a perfect environment for small-time theft. I've heard of sister stores more south of my location- who have regular thieves who wait for the store to open everyday, so they can walk in, steal breakfast, energy drinks and even cigarettes. Cops can't/won't do anything, and it isn't worth the time or money for all parties to prosecute. Because the state has monopolized the use of force and even most degrees of self defense, and converted courts from dispute resolution to mostly non-violent and victimless crime (because making money by force is easy and fun!), it isn't worth it to proactively defend a company's store and product. The use of force is important here because were my company or her employees to defend her capital in any way that isn't permitted by the state- we would be liable for prosecution from the state, without negotiation. So you see Jagsfan82, even with the state, thieves and bandits can still ignore the register. Adam Kokesh does a lot of great interviews and stories about the corruption of court houses and law enforcement, I highly suggest taking some time and perusing his videos, they are entertaining and Adam is awesome. Hope that clears things up
Jagsfan82 Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 WOAH EVERYONE CALM DOWN IT WAS A JOKEEDIT: Thanks for the counter arguments anyhow. Always good to hear how others would argue the point.
tjt Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 WOAH EVERYONE CALM DOWN IT WAS A JOKE Haha! Maybe use an emoticon or whatever they're called next time!
Jagsfan82 Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 I post these questions for the benefit of others. Last time you responded to something I said, you summarized my words as "lots of stuff." That was because it was lots of stuff and I just figured I would clarify I was responding to you. Edit: I just noticed that there is precisely one person on this thread who has skipped the FDR cash register and just walked out the front door. I actually did donate, I just haven't really linked it to my account yet cause I have no need for a shiny sticker letting everyone know I donated. My donations are limited though anyway as every penny I have possession of was given to me, taken by force, or part of my debt. Haha! Maybe use an emoticon or whatever they're called next time! Lol.. i was half joking half playing devils advocate to keep everyone on their toesBut I forgot we have rep points on this thing =[
manormachine Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 Jeffrey Tucker has helped start a anarchist digital community of some sort, I forget the details, but was one of the topics in FDR2677. they were also discussing Bitcoin as a digital cure to fiat currencies. Maybe take your community online and avoid all Waco scenarios. Digital communities as a way to avoid the police state. Can't arrest a bunch of bits!
dsayers Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 Can't arrest a bunch of bits! Challenge accepted! Signed, Typical Politican
Omegahero09 Posted May 2, 2014 Author Posted May 2, 2014 Challenge accepted! Signed, Typical Politican Apparently they are trying to rope in the internet... again...
NumberSix Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 Cody Wilson has a great line about how he is developing Dark Wallet to challenge the government to expand its control to every computer on the internet and then it will collapse under its own weight. "Legal encapsulation is not effectively possible," declares Cody Wilson of Defense Distributed, makers of the world's first gun made via 3D printing technology. "So it's fun to kind of challenge the state to greater and greater levels of its own hyper-statism."
Bulbasaur Posted May 10, 2014 Posted May 10, 2014 Jeffrey Tucker has helped start a anarchist digital community of some sort, I forget the details, but was one of the topics in FDR2677. they were also discussing Bitcoin as a digital cure to fiat currencies. Maybe take your community online and avoid all Waco scenarios. Digital communities as a way to avoid the police state. Can't arrest a bunch of bits! Liberty.me is the project, I think it just recently launched.
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