Who is responsible for state evils?

[zippert]

In FDR the existence of the state is correctly traced back to child abuse. The focus of asigning responsibility of present state evils is -as far as I persieve it- the voter. For example Stefs talks about union teachers and other special interest groups raising money and votes.

 

I want to make the case that it is the police/military officers, who really make up the core of the state. They are the people, who actually commit the violence. Without them nothing works.

 

Even if you have a draft, there have to be non-drafted officers as a violence threat for the draft to work. These core officers commit these evils voluntary.

 

Lets take for example the teachers unions. They dont come to your house if you dont pay your taxes or send your kid to their schools. Sure, they vote for such legislature, but what is a law, if not just a piece of paper? This law itself can never force a single police officer to enforce taxes or schooling. It is always a free decision by them to do that. They joined the police/military voluntary.

 

In contract theory, voting is an order to do accordingly and therefore the voter is held moraly acountable. But it is also the officers decision to accept that contract. Without this consent no orders are excecuted. If an army decides to kill 1000 Iraqis if I hold my left arm in the air, am I moraly responsible, if I do so but not to kill them but to get something out of the shelf? Similar, is voter moraly responsible as much as the excecuter?

 

So I get that this would intimidate policemens and maybe get FDR in trouble. So I am wondering, if it is the potential consequences for FDR or a disagreement with my thesis or another reason, that withholds FDR to focus on these people instead of the voters.

[dsayers]

Lets take for example the teachers unions. They dont come to your house if you dont pay your taxes or send your kid to their schools.

 

Technically, the enforcer class doesn't either. They will in the event of refusal but for the most part, the threat of as much is enough for most people.

 

If you want to see what the driving force behind the State is, go up to your average person and say to them, "I don't pay taxes." They don't have to be a politician, or an enforcer, or a voter, but they will likely look at/talk to you like you've just stolen money from them.

 

So while you argue, and rightly so, that were the enforcer class to step down, the system would unravel, it is also true that if the peasants stopped attacking one another for not conforming, the system would run out of momentum.

[Daniel Unplugged]

I agree with dsayers, the system cannot continue without the support of a significant of support of the population. If a person supports statist behavior, such as locking tax evaders in jail, they are morally responsible for it. Not as responsible as the leaders or the enforcers, but responsible nonetheless. As there is with most major evils, and disasters, there is usually plenty of blame to go around.

[Kevin Beal]

I'd say the people who portray evil as a virtue are the ones responsible, since that's the only way it can be sustained: through propaganda. It doesn't take more than 2 seconds thought to realize that taxation is theft.

[Daniel Unplugged]

I'd say the people who portray evil as a virtue are the ones responsible, since that's the only way it can be sustained: through propaganda. It doesn't take more than 2 seconds thought to realize that taxation is theft.

Unfortunately, 2 seconds thought is more than most people are capable of.

[Omegahero09]

I'd say the people who portray evil as a virtue are the ones responsible, since that's the only way it can be sustained: through propaganda. It doesn't take more than 2 seconds thought to realize that taxation is theft.

 

Couldn't be any better said.

 

This reason is why I take such an immovable stance on people being responsible for what they are believing in, and what they support. People's opinions do matter, because it's precisely what keep everything rolling along.

 

Most people pass it off inside the statist "that's just my opinion; that's your opinion" trap, and take no responsibility for the things they advocate.

 

I still shudder at my proud pro-war family members who shrug and dismiss facts about our occupation in the middle east.

[dsayers]

I still shudder at my proud pro-war family members who shrug and dismiss facts about our occupation in the middle east.

 

Thanks to propaganda, the very way we speak has been compromised so as to perpetuate myths. If you don't mind the correction, I think your use of the word "our" here is a perfect example. I'm constantly catching myself in these propaganda traps. It's an important distinction though because if we can get people to understand that what's being done isn't by "us" then they might consider making choices instead of just accepting it thoughtlessly. Does that make sense?

[Omegahero09]

Thanks to propaganda, the very way we speak has been compromised so as to perpetuate myths. If you don't mind the correction, I think your use of the word "our" here is a perfect example. I'm constantly catching myself in these propaganda traps. It's an important distinction though because if we can get people to understand that what's being done isn't by "us" then they might consider making choices instead of just accepting it thoughtlessly. Does that make sense?

 

Holy crap I didn't even notice...

 

I too have been doing this, but sometimes it does slip through- it does show you how deep it is though because I go over my posts three or four times before posting.

 

Thanks for the correction!

[original_brownbear]

I think the OP has a very important point here. Technically the state is just the police and the army.

The average citizen does not care whether you pay your taxes or not to a degree that would lead him to enforce payment from your end. Only the fact that they can outsource the violence to the police makes them have all kinds of political ideas that in the core are just violence.

What it all comes down to is the the psychopaths that constitute the police forces around the world offer the politicans and people their sick service and the people naively taking them up on their offer.

I'm actually completely against the idea of the police officers beeing somewhat not guilty and just doing their job. By walking around in that uniform they tell us that they'll kill us if we don't pay up. They're all violent criminals as far as I'm concerned since their mere choice of occupation was that of a robber.

They threaten you with armed robbery everyday and actually swore an oath to do so. I really cannot think of any way in which a police officer would not deserve punishment in case we win