cobra2411 Posted May 8, 2014 Posted May 8, 2014 http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/05/05/california-school-district-gives-students-jaw-dropping-holocaust-assignment-in-attempt-to-meet-common-core-standards/ Guess you need the chattel to forget the last holocaust before you can have the next holocaust...
tiepolo Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 How is asking questions and inviting the investigation of an historical event leading to its forgetting and the possibility of a repeat (supposing it happened)? What is the case for preventing free inquiry into the matter, or the expression of honest doubts? Also why does everyone know (or think they know) how many Jews perished during that period, but not off-hand how many Polish gentiles, for example?
Magnus Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 I question if the Holocaust really happened. Or, to be more accurate, I question if mass murder occurred in the same manner, as to many of the key details, as is commonly promoted. The political incentives for distortion and exaggeration are enormous, and statist media was no more powerful (and monopolistic) as it was in the period immediately following WWII. The camp locations were all in occupied Poland, and all fell into Soviet control after the war. The Soviet government devoted massive resources to a bureaucracy that had cutting edge, highly-developed expertise in propaganda. It's also openly admitted that the Soviets "rebuilt" the captured Nazi facilities in the late 1940s and 1950s. In short, I don't trust Soviet war data any more than I trust today's DEA police reports or the Labor Department's unemployment and economic data. There are many aspects of the horrors and democide that occurred right out in the open throughout the mid 20th century, without having to resort to politically-compromised, unreliable reports about mass murder occurring at hidden sites.
J-William Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 I'd be worried if I agreed with the ADL on anything...
cobra2411 Posted May 10, 2014 Author Posted May 10, 2014 All very good points. I was thinking along the lines of it being a question whether a government would slaughter it's own citizens... Thanks for the mental expansion... It's needed from time to time.
DFPercush Posted May 16, 2014 Posted May 16, 2014 It seems like they're questioning not whether there were concentration camps, but whether these elaborate implements of death were actually used. What I've heard is that several camps were in industrial areas, with chemicals and smoke stacks nearby. This made the place smell, and rumors got started. Germany was struggling to feed people. They wouldn't spend a bunch of money on sophisticated equipment for that, they just let them starve. Those chambers were showers, iirc, but people died either way. The mass graves are definitely real. I have no doubt that the Holocaust happened. My next door neighbor growing up was a camp survivor.
Magnus Posted May 16, 2014 Posted May 16, 2014 It seems like they're questioning not whether there were concentration camps, but whether these elaborate implements of death were actually used. What I've heard is that several camps were in industrial areas, with chemicals and smoke stacks nearby. This made the place smell, and rumors got started. Germany was struggling to feed people. They wouldn't spend a bunch of money on sophisticated equipment for that, they just let them starve. Those chambers were showers, iirc, but people died either way. The mass graves are definitely real. I have no doubt that the Holocaust happened. My next door neighbor growing up was a camp survivor.Yes, of course there were Nazi prison camps. A very large number of people were murdered there. I say "murder" because imprisoning people in a filthy, rat infested facility, where they are dying by the thousands of starvation and typhus, is murder.Soviet and Allied propagandists were tasked with the responsibility of making the defeated Nazi regime appear to be worse than the Soviets and Allies ever were. They therefore had a huge incentive to invent attention-getting details about exceptional and extraordinary systematic cruelty. The problem they faced was that operating prison camps filled with political prisoners was not, in itself, exceptional or extraordinary at the time. The USA had internment camps for the Japanese and Americans with Japanese ancestry. The Soviets had gulags all over Russia.I've never argued that the Nazis weren't a mass-murdering criminal enterprise. They were. It's just that I have never seen any reliable evidence that they were substantially different from the other cruel, murderous regimes that have existed just about everywhere else on earth.Saying these things usually gets me labeled as anti-Semitic and/or an anti-American traitor. I'm glad to have a forum where these things can be discussed rationally, without being shouted down by Leftists and/or White Nationalists.
tasmlab Posted May 16, 2014 Posted May 16, 2014 Always missing from the holocaust outrage is the fact that the US essentially enabled the starvation of 10,000,000 Japanese during the same time. They called, unimaginatively and horrifically, "Operation Starvation". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Starvation I can't seem to find a source for the body count number, I'm citing from memory. I asked a public school US History Teacher about this and he was like "Oh yea, we don't ever mention that!". I asked my octogenarian step-father about it and he remembers it in the news as a good thing. I bring it up to show how history can be spun. I'm not sure the Nazi's had any monopoly on evil.
jpahmad Posted May 16, 2014 Posted May 16, 2014 Yeah, don't forget the fact the we entirely nuked two Japanese cities full of innocent men, women, and children.
cobra2411 Posted May 17, 2014 Author Posted May 17, 2014 I'm amazed that even as we travel far down the path to enlightenment it is still so easy to put on the blinders and get caught up in something so trivial and lose sight of the bigger picture. Many people focused on the religious overtones to it, I keyed in on the concept of a government run school trying to erase the history of the last genocide presumable to enable the next genocide. It was different than the herd, but still narrow in focus. Thank you for everyone who posted insightful comments about this; it's been very helpful in many ways.
fractional slacker Posted May 19, 2014 Posted May 19, 2014 The saying goes the victors of war write history. It's illegal in several countries to question the official story. While not illegal in the US, it can get you fired from your job, and likely will get you the label of anti-semite and even on a Soviet style enemies list kept by the ADL or their all inclusive subisidiary the SPLC. youtube is notorious for censoring anything that doesn't parrot the official storyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fY7GAvJFjZU
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