dveb8886 Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Hmm, I'm not sure what went wrong with the original poster's comment, however I think this is a major thing that needs to be discussed. I've had teeth rot since childhood that has called for a tooth extraction procedure today, and the sad thing is, this is something that could have been prevented VERY EARLY on if it wasn't for the fact that I felt paralyzing fear every time I think about, or even try to walk to my parent's room to discuss my tooth pains when I was younger. When looking at my past to try and figure out where this paralyzing fear was coming from, I recognized one thing. (and I had to move out of the house to even see this). Every time the front door opened, I suddenly felt tense. If it was my mom who entered, the tension would decrease (she wasn't very much involved in my upbringing), if it was my dad who entered, the tension would increase, and it would stay up until my dad sat down at his computer. I guess if this was cortisol doing it's work, and the amount of it in my bloodstream was somehow measured over the course of the day, it would look like this: _____________C _________B| | | | ____________________________ _____________________A| A = door opens B = person entering turns out to be Dad C = Dad sits down on the computer Notice that the level of tension does not decrease back to the level it was prior to the door opening. That usually never happened unless I noticed that my dad went to sleep, or I went to sleep myself. If I try to recall what my dad was like during my youth, I notice that the image of the angry dad surfaces easily, but the image of the smiling dad takes a great deal of effort to recall (to the point where I wonder if my mind simply constructs it). It doesn't take a genius to know that my dad was a brutal spanker (and yeller) from this information, but looking back on this curious door-opening scenario and the presence of paralyzing fear when trying to confide a health problem to my parents is a disturbing thought. Onto the dental history. I remember being told to brush my teeth twice a day, but I don't remember the details surrounding this since it happened so long ago, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was enforced by yelling or spanking. Consequently, there came a time when I consciously broke the teeth brushing habit since I felt it was a waste of precious time I could be playing on the computer (my dad always kicked me off the moment he came home). Of course, I kept the whole teeth brushing thing a secret (isn't there something about spanking causing kids to be secretive about the things they do?) I could go on, but for the purposes of the anti-authoritarian parenting message, I think it's clear that spanking and yelling is completely ineffective ESPECIALLY if the kid succeeds in keeping a major secret like this one from the parents ... a secret that causes tooth decay and other problems that arise only in the future. And lets be honest, the evidence that you are not brushing your teeth takes time to surface ... makes me wonder why they didn't confront me about it during those rare times when a relative asked about my teeth ... This reminds me of those times when Stefan talks about how he gets his daughter to be careful about what she eats, and it makes me wish that my parents were like that. Clearly, spanking and yelling has failed .... One thing that I would like to get advice on is ... how do I approach my parents about this? as of right now, they are completely in the dark about any of this ....
dsayers Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Every time the front door opened, I suddenly felt tense. If it was my mom who entered, the tension would decrease (she wasn't very much involved in my upbringing), if it was my dad who entered, the tension would increase, and it would stay up until my dad sat down at his computer. Your dad was only your dad because your mom chose him to be. If this was your experience with regards to him, I think it's dismissive to say she wasn't much involved in your upbringing. I can relate to your dental health story. I too neglected (and to some degree, still do) this despite it actually not taking a whole lot of time. I still wanted to point out that this is more of a voluntary thing on our parts. I only mention this because there are far more serious, involuntary health deficits as the result of childhood trauma. how do I approach my parents about this? How do you know you should approach them? I'm not saying you shouldn't; Just curious as to your motivation. Like whatever your father did to you to make you feel this way towards him, did he do it to say a policeman or other people in public? Did he only do it to you while not in public? Your answers to these questions could indicate that he is fully aware that his behavior was unacceptable, meaning there likely isn't anything to gain from confronting him about it. I mention this because if there is nothing to gain, then doing so is only going to serve to allow him to victimize you further. Pardon me if I missed it, but are you still living under their roof today? If so, how soon until you'll be able to escape? If you are grown for the most part, but still under their roof, I don't at all think it would be a good idea to confront them under those circumstances unless you genuinely believe (by way of reason, not desire) they might own it, change, etc. If you end up deciding to approach them, I'd prepare first. Stef's books On Truth and Real Time Relationships can help. After that, just ask them if you can schedule a time to talk to them about something that's very important to you.
dveb8886 Posted September 27, 2014 Posted September 27, 2014 Your dad was only your dad because your mom chose him to be. If this was your experience with regards to him, I think it's dismissive to say she wasn't much involved in your upbringing. Somehow, I was thinking this at the back of my mind from all the times I hear Stefan say something similar to some callers, but can you perhaps elaborate on how my mom's choice of my dad leads to her sharing the blame? I'm not entirely clear on this. I can relate to your dental health story. I too neglected (and to some degree, still do) this despite it actually not taking a whole lot of time. I still wanted to point out that this is more of a voluntary thing on our parts. I only mention this because there are far more serious, involuntary health deficits as the result of childhood trauma. Yes it's voluntary, but it reflects a failure on the part of my parents to have a discussion about the consequences of this voluntary decision, and placing an incentive system to make this voluntary decision happen (I'm still trying to remember the details of the incentive system, but I do remember making a calculated decision). This is just another example of them yelling/beating in favor of a conversation about the issue, and the results of that. And yes, I know there are much more serious health effects, How do you know you should approach them? I'm not saying you shouldn't; Just curious as to your motivation. Like whatever your father did to you to make you feel this way towards him, did he do it to say a policeman or other people in public? Did he only do it to you while not in public? Your answers to these questions could indicate that he is fully aware that his behavior was unacceptable, meaning there likely isn't anything to gain from confronting him about it. I mention this because if there is nothing to gain, then doing so is only going to serve to allow him to victimize you further. Good point, my concern is actually the reverse. Stefan talked many times about the reversal of power where the parents become the weak ones, and become in need of care and funding by their children. I know for a fact that my parents do not approve of welfare, or even the medical systems we have today, so I view them approaching me one day for some kind of help as inevitable. Of course, I don't know the degree to which I will want to support my dad after his treatment of me during my childhood, and a conflict on this issue could arise at that time. By the time that problem could arise, it's perfectly possible that my Dad (and maybe mom too) won't be in any mental condition to discuss this issue, which is my motivation for having the talk earlier rather than later. (tell me if this doesn't make sense) Pardon me if I missed it, but are you still living under their roof today? If so, how soon until you'll be able to escape? If you are grown for the most part, but still under their roof, I don't at all think it would be a good idea to confront them under those circumstances unless you genuinely believe (by way of reason, not desire) they might own it, change, etc. Fortunately, I have a full time job now, and I'm living on my own (coincidentally, there are many US States between us right now). Good point though. If you end up deciding to approach them, I'd prepare first. Stef's books On Truth and Real Time Relationships can help. After that, just ask them if you can schedule a time to talk to them about something that's very important to you. Hmm, I'll take a look at that book soon, thanks for the recommendation
dsayers Posted September 27, 2014 Posted September 27, 2014 can you perhaps elaborate on how my mom's choice of my dad leads to her sharing the blame? I'm not entirely clear on this. When people choose to become parents, they are creating a positive obligation to protect, care, and provide for their child until such a time as they're able to do so on their own. Choosing a co-parent that could be a threat to her offspring is not protecting you at all. It's endangering you before you're even conceived.
st434u Posted September 28, 2014 Posted September 28, 2014 I'm sorry about your childhood dveb. It's not easy to see all the psychological harm that this kind of pattern causes. Especially because just about everybody grew up in some sort of similar or worse situation. Having a tooth pulled out is bad, but it's the sick behaviors and lack of an ability to make healthy connections with others and with yourself are what is truly terrible. The good news is, there are things that can be done to heal and remediate these problems, and thinking about them is a very important step. If it's helpful at all, this is a somewhat related thread from a year ago https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/37481-rethinking-radical-unschooling/ About talking to your parents about these issues, it's not easy, because you know how they will react and respond, but at the end of the day it's about asking the very straightforward questions that you are asking yourself. Why did they do this instead of that? And so on. Ultimately it is the conclusions about your relationship with them, and the shattering of the fantasies that you had to build to explain away certain things, that keep you from talking to them about these things. If you've yet to read or listen to it, the book RTR can help a lot here, the wisdom and illumination contained therein, of things that are so simple, yet so rarely talked about, cannot be overestimated.
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