Pleiades Posted May 19, 2014 Posted May 19, 2014 Hi, I would like other people's opinions on the following idea: Affection has value, but how do you convince a prospective mate that your affection has value and enough that they should invest their affection in you? My general approach is: show what you have to offer. If there are interested parties who recognize the value of your affections then your value should attract people who want it. This is my general approach: I find potential dates (based on personality, having decent looks, and having an arbitrary number of similar interests), after getting to know them I start to offer a sample of what I provide in the relationship and then I come forward and say that I want to date. Then I get friend zoned and stop providing the additional affection and attention. Invariably the men I try to date miss the free attention and then start asking for it back without wanting to provide a reciprocal investment of affection. So I posit this: Affection has valuable. While the supply of affection is perceived to be unlimited with little investment, the demand is low since it seems inexhaustible. Once the supply is cut off, as a scarce resource, demand increases. For the purpose of discussion: do you agree if this is accurate? Also, do you believe that my approach is an appropriate one? I am comfortable with it and it matches my personal style, but it does not appear to be working. I want the men I want to date to know what they are "buying" with their affection, but I also don't want to be left waiting until I am too old to start a family (in particular having children).
Brentb Posted May 19, 2014 Posted May 19, 2014 Don't chase men. The easiest way to assure that only those who value something highly have access to it, is to raise the cost of accessing it - in this case the cost is paid in time and attention, and also to market it well - make your appearance as attractive as possible. If the men don't put in the time or don't initiate affection, then they're not interested enough. The FDR business model of making all your goods freely available is a terrible model for personal relationships. Right now it looks like you're experiencing the "Free Rider" problem .
BROTHER I Posted May 19, 2014 Posted May 19, 2014 Affection has value, but how do you convince a prospective mate that your affection has value and enough that they should invest their affection in you? My general approach is: show what you have to offer. If there are interested parties who recognize the value of your affections then your value should attract people who want it. This is my general approach: I find potential dates (based on personality, having decent looks, and having an arbitrary number of similar interests), after getting to know them I start to offer a sample of what I provide in the relationship and then I come forward and say that I want to date. Then I get friend zoned and stop providing the additional affection and attention. Invariably the men I try to date miss the free attention and then start asking for it back without wanting to provide a reciprocal investment of affection. Hey there, Pleiades. Interesting questions. I have a few thoughts about what might be happening. I do agree that affection has a subject value based on various factors and the way you go about looking for a life partner is the way most people (I would assume) go about it. Going out or signing up for an online dating service, seeing somebody who they find attractive, engaging this person, showing what they have to offer in whatever regard, having the other person decline or proceed to give the same sample. Based on this, I don't think the problem is your approach. The problem may be with the types of individuals you approach. You said you offer your sample and they neither decline it or offer theirs. Instead, they put you in the dreaded friend zone - this may mean something a little different for everyone - and believe there is a problem when you stop offering your sample. Failing to realize that you were putting yourself out there in order to create an intimate relationship, etc. I would be glad to hear what you think.
Pleiades Posted May 19, 2014 Author Posted May 19, 2014 Don't chase men. The easiest way to assure that only those who value something highly have access to it, is to raise the cost of accessing it - in this case the cost is paid in time and attention, and also to market it well - make your appearance as attractive as possible. If the men don't put in the time or don't initiate affection, then they're not interested enough. The FDR business model of making all your goods freely available is a terrible model for personal relationships. Right now it looks like you're experiencing the "Free Rider" problem . Hi Brent, Every relationship requires at least one interested party to initiate the relationship, right? The free rider problem is just that: a problem, but if both the men I find interesting and myself do not try to start something then it theoretically never start. You are right in that my most successful relationships have happened when a man has pursued me. It almost never works when I pursue, but the inaction bothers me. So how do I raise the cost while still marketing it without providing samples (or even as many)? Instead of making myself available, describe what I would offer in a relationship? Or show examples? I do have lotsa pictures of food I've cooked. My friends' girlfriends all love the cheesecake I make. One day I shall steal them all! Hey there, Pleiades. Interesting questions. I have a few thoughts about what might be happening. I do agree that affection has a subject value based on various factors and the way you go about looking for a life partner is the way most people (I would assume) go about it. Going out or signing up for an online dating service, seeing somebody who they find attractive, engaging this person, showing what they have to offer in whatever regard, having the other person decline or proceed to give the same sample. Based on this, I don't think the problem is your approach. The problem may be with the types of individuals you approach. You said you offer your sample and they neither decline it or offer theirs. Instead, they put you in the dreaded friend zone - this may mean something a little different for everyone - and believe there is a problem when you stop offering your sample. Failing to realize that you were putting yourself out there in order to create an intimate relationship, etc. I would be glad to hear what you think. Some more information: My main source is friends of friends. Within friends circles you have a comfortability where you are less likely to overemphasize your good qualities as well as hide your negative qualities (which I find people do when they meet via dating websites). As much as I don't want a man to literally or figuratively pour his heart out on the first date, I want the men I date not to feel the need to hide their negative qualities from me as it is a part of them as a person. And I don't want to date a man if I'm only dating an incomplete subsection of him. In the past I have been less open about providing my "services" as a means of showing my affection. I've started saying sooner "I am interested in dating you". Now, I do this very bluntly, but that's just a part of my personality. Subtly is not a skill I possess. I've even started saying "you say you want trait X, and you recognize that I have it; if you truly value it then you should pursue someone with trait X". Where X is either a single trait a set of traits, and I'm normally in possession of a majority percentage of these traits.
Freedomain Posted May 19, 2014 Posted May 19, 2014 What do you think would happen if you were more honest, i.e. more direct? Why do you think you haven't been more direct?
Pleiades Posted May 19, 2014 Author Posted May 19, 2014 Hmm... That's a good hypothetical question. In terms of being more direct, I think I'm direct once I've decided that pursuing a relationship would be healthy and beneficial to both of us. By then they should know me well enough that I say what I think anyway. Given my knowledge of me, I should probably be faster at making the decision to try a relationship. To quote myself from my last attempt: "We should spend more time together. And I'm saying this because I'm attracted to you." I'm really not sure how much more direct I should be. Or am I misunderstanding your meaning?
Brentb Posted May 20, 2014 Posted May 20, 2014 Hi Brent, Every relationship requires at least one interested party to initiate the relationship, right? The free rider problem is just that: a problem, but if both the men I find interesting and myself do not try to start something then it theoretically never start. You are right in that my most successful relationships have happened when a man has pursued me. It almost never works when I pursue, but the inaction bothers me. So how do I raise the cost while still marketing it without providing samples (or even as many)? Instead of making myself available, describe what I would offer in a relationship? Or show examples? I do have lotsa pictures of food I've cooked. My friends' girlfriends all love the cheesecake I make. One day I shall steal them all! I'm sorry, I didn't realize that you were a man. Initiation of affection is a little simpler for hetero relationships, at least as I understand it. One thing that you can do is talk about what kind of partnership you want. Just keep exploring the idea in conversation - without trying to attach the idea to any particular person or hook anyone. Ask questions about what others want in a relationship and what they think works. This lets everyone know where you stand and what you're looking for. It can also give people a sample of how you think and communicate - which are important samples for other people looking for deeper relationships.
Pleiades Posted May 21, 2014 Author Posted May 21, 2014 I'm sorry, I didn't realize that you were a man. Initiation of affection is a little simpler for hetero relationships, at least as I understand it. Don't apologize. I keep forgetting that it's not inherently obvious. Thanks for the advice!
LovePrevails Posted May 21, 2014 Posted May 21, 2014 you can't talk someone into fancying you while you're trying to do it most of the time you're talking them out of it more often than not
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