"Don't Tell Me How to Raise My Kids"

[MysterionMuffles]

What is a suitable response to such a common defense from crappy parents?

 

I would imagine, "then raise them right so you wouldn't have to BE criticized," but I think that invites some attack as it has some venom in itself too.

[andkon]

There's some guy on YouTube who has addressed this:

 

 

[meta]

I guess it is an exercise of free will. And we have to let them do whatever they want.But critisizing is definitely constructive. And is an exercise of free will as well. 

So it would go:"-Don't Tell Me How to Raise My Kids.-Don't tell me what to say or not to say. Because if you are free to raise your kid, I am free in criticizing your method"But starting a sentence by "Don't tell me [....]" shows lack of interest in dialogue and discussion.

There might be no point criticizing since this kind of person is definitly not open to reasonning or constructive dialogue.

[Tyler Durden]

"I'm sorry, I didn't mean to do that. I was just curious."

[MysterionMuffles]

There's some guy on YouTube who has addressed this:

 

 

 

Damn that guy for speaking the truth.

I almost forgot about that argument. Thanks! 

 

Although the family member who said it--I think I'm just gonna disengage from now on. Totally, utterly, worthless. 

[kavih]

I was somewhat wondering how to answer that question as well. Thanks for posting this topic, Rainbow.

[Tyler Durden]

To whoever downvoted me without leaving a reply:

 

Let me to explain why I recommended "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to do that. I was just curious." It's not because I approve of bad parenting or anything like that. It's because I think it's the most effective response if you actually want to change people's behavior.

 

When someone says "Don't tell me how to raise my kids!" what they're actually saying is "I'm scared and I perceive you as a threat."

 

It's a clear signal that what you're doing is not working, that you've pushed them too far. In fact, it's such a clear signal that you've probably missed or ignored a couple of more subtle signals that came before. When people say this they no longer see you as someone who is on their side and trying to help them make better decisions, they see you as someone who is out to get them.

 

Of course you can choose to respond by telling them why they are wrong, and why it actually is your business how they raise their kids, and how they don't own their children, and why the non aggression principle overrules any ideas of parenting they may have, and how it is scientifically proven that spanking is bad. But all they're going to hear is "I don't give a fuck about you or how you feel, you should just listen to me and do what I say."

 

If you go that route they're not going to leave the conversation with thoughts like "What a nice guy that was, and he had such insightful and scientifically proven ideas about parenting, I really learned a lot today, you know what, I'm going to implement them in my parenting style right away!" No they're going to feel bitter and humiliated because you wouldn't listen to them or take their objections seriously, they're not going to implement any of your ideas, and in the worst case scenario they may even take out their resentment on their kids.

 

So instead of going that route, I recommend going the other way. The way where you take a step back, where you realize your mistake of pushing them too far too soon, where you acknowledge that they feel threatened and you show them that you didn't mean to threaten them. Because you can't bully people into being better parents. You can coach them, but you can only do that when they feel understood and listened to first.

[LovePrevails]

depends how much time you have - when I intervened in a supermarket the caregiver was like "it's none of your business"

 

I just said "of course it is, it's everyones business"

 

she repeated herself and I said

 

"that poor girl is going to end up in school with my kids and start treating other people the way you are treating her"

If you had more time you could say that someone abusing their spouse may say the same thing "don't tell me how to treat my partner"

[hannahbanana]

I'd probably say "I wish I didn't have to tell you, but I'm truly worried about the well-being of your child." Even if it doesn't change anything about the attitude of the parent, I think it's important that the child knows that there are people that care about them, and people who think that "no, it ISN'T okay for you to be treated this way, you shouldn't have to grow up accepting that as a reality."

[RyanT]

Wow, that's a brilliant point hannah,

 

because of course there's every chance the abusive parent will come away from the encounter full of rage,

obviously while as a fully grown adult you're out of bounds for anything more than a snarky comment,

the poor kid may well bare the brunt.

 

So sometimes intervening can feel worse than futile,

but when you put it like that, 

 

one of the most insidious aspects of child abuse is on some level most kids internalize that

they 'must have deserved it', which society in general seems all too happy to validate.

 

I've yet to meet anybody who was beaten as a child who doesn't have a variant of 'that story' where, usually getting changed for P.E, they realized the teacher staring at a bruise or a welt, only to sheepishly look away when they caught the child's eye or perhaps worse, actually voice concern only to smile and breath a sigh of relief when presented with a lie, so flimsy only a child could come up with (...that often they secretly prayed to get caught out in) 

 

So for someone to show them total sympathy, and to spell it out in those honest unambiguous terms,   

that's life changing stuff.

[LovePrevails]

[kavih]

The war on drugs. The war on religion. The war on women. The war on [fill in the blank]. How about we start a philosophical war on bad parenting? I'm game. In fact, I've kind of already started on my facebook.

[Better Future]

How about we start a philosophical war on bad parenting?

 

People say that there is no such thing as a silver bullet. They are wrong. Can you imagine where we would be as a species if all parents were at least as qualified as Stefan Molynuex? 

[kavih]

People say that there is no such thing as a silver bullet. They are wrong. Can you imagine where we would be as a species if all parents were at least as qualified as Stefan Molynuex? 

I was just talking about this with a friend yesterday. So many people are trying to fix symptoms, while I (we) are trying to fix the root issue. At the same time, I am also glad that people are battling the symptoms, because we need people who are passionate about solving certain problems that I just don't have time or the passion for (cryptocurrencies, for example).

[Better Future]

You got it. Inadequate parenting is the ultimate root cause of most social problems. 99.9% of parents just aren't up to the job. It is all well and good having cryptocurrencies but the potential benefits are wasted if most don't understand how money works.

[Troubador]

I don't think what I would suggest as an either/or proposition, but sometimes actions speak louder than words. If you are doing a good job actively raising your own child people will take note and frequently lend more weight to your opinion.

 

Of course this only really works when the parents are in your social orbit, although often this will even work with a casual acquaintance.

 

In terms of going in cold, say if you see questionable parenting from a complete stranger I guess that would depend on your skill set.

 

I think another form of the rebuttal of "who are you to tell me how to raise my kids?" can come from the phrase "It takes a village to raise a child". We are all invested in the next generation even if we don't have them ourselves.

 

Furthermore the number of people sequestered away parenting alone, with little/no support from the rest of the "tribe" so to speak is hardly conducive to sound mental health.

[Carl Green]

I know this is probably just a matter of terms but they're right. You shouldn't be telling them what to do. Just like you shouldn't be telling anyone what to do unless you're their boss or something. Use a different tactic if you don't want this response. Instead of saying what they should do, share a possible consequence of their actions.

 

"I was yelled at/spanked/hit like that as a kid and now I don't even talk to my parents." might get some sort of equally shitty response, but at least it's less likely to raise the abuser's defenses and might actually be better at getting 'em to think about what they're doing.

[Susana]

@carl ^^ I like that idea. what kind of answers do you recieve?

[Carl Green]

I'm very rarely around such situations so I've yet to even be able to test this theory. I just know how these types of people react to their own medicine.

 

I think it works on some level though as I've used similar reasoning when just discussing the topic with family/friends on FB and it usually stops their excuses and arguments. It's a good start to possibly get them thinking and at least it doesn't end up as a typical battle of opinions.

[Matthew Ed Moran]

You shouldn't be telling them what to do.

 

This statement is self-contradicting, because you are telling someone what to do, while saying he/she shouldn't tell people what to do. 

 

Also, it is not clear OP merely told someone what to do. Maybe he said "you should not do x because of y," which I think is an appeal to reason rather than his authority, and still been responded to the way he was.

[Carl Green]

This statement is self-contradicting, because you are telling someone what to do...

 

I was saying the parent was right in saying that the confronting individual shouldn't be telling the parent how to parent. Not what someone should do.

 

The part I left out is the big IF that's attached to that should.

 

If you want the parent you're confronting to get closer to thinking about parenting without coercion, you should not be telling them what to do. Because it will only get their defenses up to block you out and reaffirm their shitty parenting.

[J. D. Stembal]

If you want the parent you're confronting to get closer to thinking about parenting without coercion, you should not be telling them what to do. Because it will only get their defenses up to block you out and reaffirm their shitty parenting.

 

You can't reason a parent out of beliefs that they were not reasoned into.

 

The reason to speak up to abusive parents is so the child being abused knows that someone else cares enough to speak up. It provides them with courage and hope. They will have normalized the maltreatment in the interest of childhood survival, but they will know that as soon as they can fight back or move away, they can end the abuse, and you helped empower them by standing up to their parents years earlier.

[Carl Green]

You can't reason a parent out of beliefs that they were not reasoned into.

 

The reason to speak up to abusive parents is so the child being abused knows that someone else cares enough to speak up....

 

Absolutely. It's very important that the child gets a good example. And when you do speak up, if what you say is telling someone what they should do, they'll learn that you should tell people what they should do.

[J. D. Stembal]

Absolutely. It's very important that the child gets a good example. And when you do speak up, if what you say is telling someone what they should do, they'll learn that you should tell people what they should do.

 

Who is telling whom what they should do other than the abusive parent? Pointing out child abuse isn't telling people what to do. Only the abusive parent would construe it that way, hence the title of the thread. Almost everyone else in the situation, including the child, will sigh with relief, and think, "I wish I had been brave enough to say what that person said."