Markus FIN Posted May 22, 2014 Posted May 22, 2014 This not a topic of me whining about it, I really want to hear what kind of mistakes I am doing. I am looking to improve and it would be very helpful if I could hear what YOU think I am doing wrong. I thank in advance. 2 examples of my threads: https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/40066-open-letter-to-stefan-molyneux-about-relationships/ https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/39919-an-open-letter-to-stefan-molyneux-about-minarchism/ Markus FIN
Kevin Beal Posted May 22, 2014 Posted May 22, 2014 Because you don't listen. People tell you why they don't like your posts.
Carl Green Posted May 22, 2014 Posted May 22, 2014 You made the claim "Stefan as well as many in these forums have said that if someone I am close to is NOT Anarcho-Capitalist then I should cut all social ties with him." and were asked to show how you came to this conclusion. I haven't read the entire topic, but have you done this? accomplishing this (or retracting the statement) would show that you're indeed listening and connecting with people here. Otherwise, it'll look like you're just talking at people.
Kevin Beal Posted May 22, 2014 Posted May 22, 2014 ...and also, you made general statements about people in the community as sheep / blind followers. And you did it with lots of smiley emoticons, too. And then you feigned surprise and confusion without taking the time to actually reflect on the question, putting the onus on everyone else.
Markus FIN Posted May 22, 2014 Author Posted May 22, 2014 You made the claim "Stefan as well as many in these forums have said that if someone I am close to is NOT Anarcho-Capitalist then I should cut all social ties with him." and were asked to show how you came to this conclusion. I haven't read the entire topic, but have you done this? accomplishing this (or retracting the statement) would show that you're indeed listening and connecting with people here. Otherwise, it'll look like you're just talking at people. I did, it was the podcast that I linked to my 3rd and 4th answers. In it he says it very clearly: "You don't keep people in your life that want you shot." And by people who "want you shot" he clearly meant anyone who is pro-state. So I should get rid of all people in my life who are pro-state.
corpus mentium Posted May 22, 2014 Posted May 22, 2014 I wonder how many people in this community were once pro-state until they heard the against-me argument. Markus FIN, have you spoken with these pro-state people in your life and presented them with the against-me argument? Without speaking for Stef, I think the idea was to first clearly present people with the against-me argument. If they reject it and say that they have no problem with you being shot for following your conscience, then it would probably be better for you in the long run to no longer associate with them.
MysterionMuffles Posted May 22, 2014 Posted May 22, 2014 I dunno Markus, when I talked to you in the chat you seemed very receptive and open to new knowledge and talking at a humble level. Try bringing that onto the boards more.
Slavik Posted May 23, 2014 Posted May 23, 2014 I did, it was the podcast that I linked to my 3rd and 4th answers. In it he says it very clearly: "You don't keep people in your life that want you shot." And by people who "want you shot" he clearly meant anyone who is pro-state. So I should get rid of all people in my life who are pro-state. I think the argument from Stefan was very clear "dont keep people around you who want you shot". The only way to make that fact clear is to ask this question directly, instead of logically concluding that ALL the statists are this way. Many statists dont even realize that their position means that they are in fact advocating violence. So just to sum it up. The reason people dont like some of your posts, is because you make conclusions, conclusions which mind you have little to do with the actual arguments made, and then you frustrate everyone by having to respond to your conclusions. All you can do is actually ask the questions first EX: "Stef said that we should not associate with people who want us shot" does that mean that includes all statists? So here you are clearly saying that you are not sure on the points made by Stef, and asking to clarify. Now if I may, when I was reading your posts, I became increasingly frustrated, I personally have no reason to be frustrated with you, since I dont even know you. I could be wrong of course, but I think the frustrated party here is you. And the approach you take to the interactions lacks any curiosity, thus in turn frustrated others, and allows you to project your inner frustration and spill it into interactions, avoiding the really true reasons of your frustration. If my last statement rings any bells, I am around and will be happy to chat with you about the real reasons that you are bothered by. If the last point I made are completely of base, then I extend my apologies before hand, and feel free to dismiss it off hand.
Markus FIN Posted May 23, 2014 Author Posted May 23, 2014 I think the argument from Stefan was very clear "dont keep people around you who want you shot". The only way to make that fact clear is to ask this question directly, instead of logically concluding that ALL the statists are this way. Many statists dont even realize that their position means that they are in fact advocating violence. So just to sum it up. The reason people dont like some of your posts, is because you make conclusions, conclusions which mind you have little to do with the actual arguments made, and then you frustrate everyone by having to respond to your conclusions. All you can do is actually ask the questions first EX: "Stef said that we should not associate with people who want us shot" does that mean that includes all statists? So here you are clearly saying that you are not sure on the points made by Stef, and asking to clarify. Now if I may, when I was reading your posts, I became increasingly frustrated, I personally have no reason to be frustrated with you, since I dont even know you. I could be wrong of course, but I think the frustrated party here is you. And the approach you take to the interactions lacks any curiosity, thus in turn frustrated others, and allows you to project your inner frustration and spill it into interactions, avoiding the really true reasons of your frustration. If my last statement rings any bells, I am around and will be happy to chat with you about the real reasons that you are bothered by. If the last point I made are completely of base, then I extend my apologies before hand, and feel free to dismiss it off hand.I understand what you mean and it explains A LOT. Thank you for pointing it out as now I can try to improve my ways so I can get rid if that mountain of downvotes... It's nice for you to take the time and help me, I appreciate it.
Markus FIN Posted May 23, 2014 Author Posted May 23, 2014 ...and also, you made general statements about people in the community as sheep / blind followers. And you did it with lots of smiley emoticons, too. And then you feigned surprise and confusion without taking the time to actually reflect on the question, putting the onus on everyone else. I never called anyone sheepish or a blind follower, I just said that in my opinion certain kind of action makes it seem like that to me. I mean I can say that you buying a lollipop makes you seem like a rapist to me but it doesn't make it true. I was trying to express that I want to know why some people act a certain way and I was hoping that someone would have the answer. Basically it was the same "lollipop" issue but said in a different way: "I think that buying a lollipop makes you look like a rapist. I am not saying that you ARE a rapist, but to me it makes it seem like it..." I really don't understand what in that sentence is actually responsible of a vote down. That is why I am asking from you.
Wesley Posted May 23, 2014 Posted May 23, 2014 I never called anyone sheepish or a blind follower, I just said that in my opinion certain kind of action makes it seem like that to me. I mean I can say that you buying a lollipop makes you seem like a rapist to me but it doesn't make it true. I was trying to express that I want to know why some people act a certain way and I was hoping that someone would have the answer. Basically it was the same "lollipop" issue but said in a different way: "I think that buying a lollipop makes you look like a rapist. I am not saying that you ARE a rapist, but to me it makes it seem like it..." I really don't understand what in that sentence is actually responsible of a vote down. That is why I am asking from you. Because the statement means absolutely nothing and only implants the idea of "rapist" or "blind sheep" into the minds of people who might not be as philosophically rigorous. I would say that if someone was throwing around those terms in a conversation with me, I would get very frustrated very quickland not want to talk with them anymore. If you supposedly know that it means nothing, then I do not know why you would post it, except to do something along the lines of what Slavik posted.
Kevin Beal Posted May 23, 2014 Posted May 23, 2014 I never called anyone sheepish or a blind follower, I just said that in my opinion certain kind of action makes it seem like that to me. This is a distinction without a difference. And it's at least three different incidents that I'm referring to. You told Mike that you would not stop writing open letters to Stef because it would mean you were not thinking for yourself. And you tacitly agreed with someone who said the community were sheep explicitly. Both instances in the "against me" thread.
Carl Green Posted May 24, 2014 Posted May 24, 2014 I did, it was the podcast that I linked to my 3rd and 4th answers. In it he says it very clearly: "You don't keep people in your life that want you shot." And by people who "want you shot" he clearly meant anyone who is pro-state. So I should get rid of all people in my life who are pro-state. Hm, test it on a few acquaintances maybe? But ask the question, to a statist, directly. "Do you want me shot?" I don't think too many would say yes, right? They're just seeing the world a bit differently and it'd also be a tall order to expect someone to, on the spot, just completely ditch what holds the world together for them in their heads. Most people mean well, brother.
Markus FIN Posted May 24, 2014 Author Posted May 24, 2014 Hm, test it on a few acquaintances maybe? But ask the question, to a statist, directly. "Do you want me shot?" I don't think too many would say yes, right? They're just seeing the world a bit differently and it'd also be a tall order to expect someone to, on the spot, just completely ditch what holds the world together for them in their heads. Most people mean well, brother.I agree with that. I as well think most people mean well but just don't understand how they are actually constantly using violence. But if they don't care about politics and don't want to talk about the subject? :/
Wesley Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 I agree with that. I as well think most people mean well but just don't understand how they are actually constantly using violence. But if they don't care about politics and don't want to talk about the subject? :/ People are allowed to say "I don't know and I don't care". However, when they specifically advocate the use of violence through a variety of policies, then it show that they do care as their advocacy proves that they do. Anyone who asserts the positive statement "I think X policy should be implemented in Y way" cannot then claim that they do not care when faced with the consequences of that proposition except to weasel out of the consequences of their words and continue to be able to assert bullshit without thought. If they truly do not care or do not know, then they should not be asserting that they do care and that they do know.
Carl Green Posted May 26, 2014 Posted May 26, 2014 I agree with that. I as well think most people mean well but just don't understand how they are actually constantly using violence. But if they don't care about politics and don't want to talk about the subject? :/ If they don't want you shot, and just don't care or want to talk about politics, than I don't see why ya couldn't still be friends if you have other things in common. For me, it's not really about getting "statist friends" out of my life. It's about having a much more accurate perception of the relationship. I have many people in my life I could call a friend but not even a Simpsons hand finger count of close friends.
Markus FIN Posted May 26, 2014 Author Posted May 26, 2014 If they don't want you shot, and just don't care or want to talk about politics, than I don't see why ya couldn't still be friends if you have other things in common. For me, it's not really about getting "statist friends" out of my life. It's about having a much more accurate perception of the relationship. I have many people in my life I could call a friend but not even a Simpsons hand finger count of close friends. I agree with that, somehow it was just hard for me to get that point across.
GRosado Posted May 27, 2014 Posted May 27, 2014 This not a topic of me whining about it, I really want to hear what kind of mistakes I am doing. I am looking to improve and it would be very helpful if I could hear what YOU think I am doing wrong. I thank in advance. :)2 examples of my threads:https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/40066-open-letter-to-stefan-molyneux-about-relationships/https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/39919-an-open-letter-to-stefan-molyneux-about-minarchism/Markus FINSame, on some of my posts I get down voted for no apparent reason & whoever down voted doesn't explain why they did.
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