Recently converted, fml.

[Jer]

So I was indoctrinated in the Christian church from the time I was a baby. I had the expected shitty childhood and met my wife while in the military. Her situation was pretty similar but more strict i.e. she wasn't allowed to wear pants.

After intentionally not exposing myself to atheist arguments for a few years I found FDR and Stefan brought me to the realization that the Bible is not true. I've told my wife as much and convinced her that our son shouldn't be forced to go to church or told of the concept of hell. Obviously this is causing relationship difficulties. I asked how it can be infallible truth while saying kill all unbelievers and thou shall not kill and she said "I can't argue this with you" "you don't want to be part of this family" and "you're talking to me like I'm an idiot". "You're just all about logic, where's the feeling?" To that I replied, "I feel like this god isn't real, but if he were I wouldn't want to worship him."

 

My parents were divorced when I was a teen and it was pretty much the worst thing ever so I'm sitting here crying my eyes out because she basically said she doesn't want to be with me because I don't go to church with her.

 

Thanks in advance for advice.

[Tyler Durden]

I think she knows you're right and it's not about the belief itself, but about the community.

 

When you say God doesn't exist, she probably hears something like: "your friends and family are either idiots or bad people and you can only be with me if you leave all of them behind." Which to her is like an impossible decision.

 

So what I would advise you to do is stop trying to convince her and just start enjoying life more. Instead of going to church sign up for something else that's more fun, a language course, a cooking class, a book club, a dance class, yoga, or pick something that's considered to be good for the world, like volunteering at an animal shelter or teaching English to foreigners. These are just some examples, the important thing is that you pick something you like and that she could like as well.

 

Show her that you can live a more fulfilling life without going to church and invite her to join you. But give her time and allow her to come to her own conclusions. If she doesn't want to join you, that's fine, if she wants to continue to go to church, that's fine too. Just continue having fun, she'll get curious eventually.

[Jer]

So what I would advise you to do is stop trying to convince her and just start enjoying life more. Instead of going to church sign up for something else that's more fun, a language course, a cooking class, a book club, a dance class, yoga, or pick something that's considered to be good for the world, like volunteering at an animal shelter or teaching English to foreigners. These are just some examples, the important thing is that you pick something you like and that she could like as well.

That's good advice. We both speak Arabic and I recently asked her to help me translate some of Stefan's work, but that may be a little too much since she seems threatened by philosophy. I believe she wants truth but it's just really troubling to accept that she's been mislead by her family and church for all these years.

[Wiltin]

Hi Jer, you're in a tough situation. Life is scary when you have been raised a Christian and then lose your faith. All religions provide answers to some of our deepest fears: Fear of death, fear of the unknown, fear of isolation, fear of injustice, and so on. So when you say to your wife "God is not real", what you are really saying is, "You and everyone you care about is going to die, you don't know the origin of the universe, you are alone, there is no justice."

 

Try to have empathy and build a positive Atheist world view rather than just tearing down your wife's one. Not just for her, but for yourself as well.

[Jer]

Try to have empathy and build a positive Atheist world view rather than just tearing down your wife's one. Not just for her, but for yourself as well.

This makes sense, but could you elaborate on what a positive atheist world view is? She has commented on how I "focus on all the bad in the world" but it's just because I'm only recently learning about these things. I've just learned that I'm a slave and I've been trying to convince friends and family that slavery is immoral.

[Guest jnyl42]

Hey Jer,

 

Have you considered trying to get on the call-in show?  I feel like this is question deserves more attention than a forums post since it sounds like your marriage is in limbo and there is a child on the verge of growing up in a single-parent household with an unstable woman.

 

Either way, good luck with your situation.

[cynicist]

If you haven't read RTR I'd recommend doing that before continuing the conversation with her. If you talk about this stuff in the abstract or using logical arguments you aren't going to get anywhere. Naturally, she feels like you are attacking her when you talk about god not existing, so an important thing to do is get her talking about her feelings. When she begins to throw counterarguments or attacks at you, ask her how what you said made her feel. Ideally, that will take her out of the tunnel-vision attack mode and have her start thinking about what is going on for her emotionally, and just as importantly, where those emotions originated. 

 

As long as she is consumed with defending herself and her beliefs, there is no way you are going to get through and reach her. You have to slow the conversation down and create a more curious environment in order for her to think about these things rationally rather than emotionally react based on her history with her family. I'd also recommend following jnyl42's advice and calling into the show, maybe even as a couple depending on how open your wife is to the idea.

[Mailman307]

I didn't read the rest of the responses yet, I just had a similar discussion with my wife, I went out for a cigarette, came in and found she went to her folks for the evening before going to her night shift.  I don't have answers or anything, not that kind of comment.  I just can totally relate right now.  I'm pretty emotional right now, but I can relate I think to what you might be feeling.  I feel mentally healthier than I ever have, or atleast see a light at the end of the tunnel.  I also see disgust with christianity and religion to a degree I wouldn't want to live with me if I were a believer.  I won't turn back, I went to bible school, I struggled with christianity for years after a horrifying divorce.  I don't know what will happen, there are a lot of other issues going on with me right now.  I just want you and anyone else going through a similar situation to know, you're not alone in what you are going through, it just feels that way.

[Wiltin]

This makes sense, but could you elaborate on what a positive atheist world view is? She has commented on how I "focus on all the bad in the world" but it's just because I'm only recently learning about these things. I've just learned that I'm a slave and I've been trying to convince friends and family that slavery is immoral.

 

This is one way to look at life, all based on indisputable fact:

 

You are a winner. Of the millions of sperm produced by your father and the hundreds of thousands of eggs in your mother, you are a successful combination. Winning is written into your genes. Nobody in your direct line of descent has ever failed to reproduce. None died before they were able to pass on their genes to you. None succumbed to disease, none were killed in war, none were eaten by wild beasts. All of them survived their childhood, found a mate, and bore a child. You are the product of resourceful, clever, and resilient people. You are at the cutting edge of human evolution. You are the product of all the hard work of every person who came before you. They all lived and worked, so that you might live in a better world than they did. You live in the best time in human history, life expectancy and quality of life has never been higher.

 

There are plenty of positive things you can take from this, it's just a matter of finding the right perspective. My personal take is along the lines of: Enjoy life and contribute to the human story by leaving a better world for your children.

[Jer]

If you haven't read RTR I'd recommend doing that before continuing the conversation with her.

Nope, I've only read Everyday Anarchy and UPB so far. I'll start now.

 

P.S. I have not donated yet, but I recently started mining litecoin to send to FDR and would love to help anybody get set up to do the same.

[Dylan Lawrence Moore]

That's good advice. We both speak Arabic and I recently asked her to help me translate some of Stefan's work, but that may be a little too much since she seems threatened by philosophy. I believe she wants truth but it's just really troubling to accept that she's been mislead by her family and church for all these years.

 

!!

 

That's an awesome idea. If the philosophy is potentially dangerous for the relationship at the moment, why not start with something from FDR on a different topic? Say, for example, the Bomb in the Brain series?

[LovePrevails]

wow harsh dude

 

she's going to choose an imaginary entity over you?