My assertion of Healthy boundaries with my parents

[Alexandru Stan]

I have been following this community for about 2 years now. And in that time I have posted a couple of questions and went on one call-in show for advice about what to do about my relationship with my parents, and donated a little. But I have not felt comfortable doing more then that, even though I think this saved my life from a whole lot of troubles down the road. This isolation is something that has happened because of my parents and their internalized forms in me.  Most of the things that have happened since this show have spiraled down to my current situation: unemployed, with a little money saved up, no real friendships and still at home, and completely isolated and anxious for the last month.
I'm going to give this a try and start asking for some help.
 
I've been facing increased anxiety almost every day while my parents were home or when they weren't for the past month or so since I quit my job. The anxiety was aimed at how there was constant screaming and conflict between my parents or them and my brother or just the anticipation of what my father, who usually initiates most conflicts, might try to say to me next.
 
I am trying to assert my boundaries with them and thus I have written an e-mail that I have partly sent to them previously, partly written now.

Here is the e-mail in it's entirety( the links might not work):

 

This article is identification of types of abuse.
http://www.helpguide.org/mental/child_abuse_physical_emotional_sexual_neglect.htm
This article has to do with how Childhood trauma affects all age groups.
https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/issue_briefs/brain_development/effects.cfm
"For teens who have been abused, neglected, or traumatized, this impulsive behavior may be even more apparent. Often, these youth have developed brains that focus on survival, at the expense of the more advanced thinking that happens in the brain's cortex (Chamberlain, 2009). An underdeveloped cortex can lead to increased impulsive behavior, as well as difficulties with tasks that require higher-level thinking and feeling. These teens may show delays in school and in social skills as well (Chamberlain, 2009). They may be more drawn to taking risks, and they may have more opportunity to experiment with drugs and crime if they live in environments that put them at increased risk for these behaviors. Teenagers who lack stable relationships with caring adults who can provide guidance and model appropriate behavior may never have the opportunity to develop the relationship skills necessary for healthy adult relationships or for becoming good parents."

There is a playlist of videos talking about the outcomes of Childhood Abuse on the Brain
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbiq2-ukfhM&list=PLB3F2CF45EEB95C80
Another video on emotional abuse and a separate article
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTbobcwtebg
http://www.teach-through-love.com/effects-of-emotional-abuse.html


This is the main website that has conducted a study and adverse childhood experiences and their effect http://acestudy.org/
This first link is to a pdf document about the Adverse Childhood Experience Study (Right Click>Save AS)
After going over the questionnaire my score was a 5.
You should go through the questionnaire yourself and reflect on that score. ACE Questionnaire

 
Here is a website that offers help on those topics.
http://sfhelp.org/site/intro.htm
 
This last part is aimed at you Father:
 
Trying to engage in conversation with you previously has not provided any results and has placed the responsibility on me to change my behavior based on your expectations. I have never been listened to without having my experiences and thoughts and concerns be dismissed; worst off I remember when I was younger and was completely depended on you, when you specifically and numerously said you did not want to hear what I had to say, in an angry raised voice (this last thing has also happened with Edward numerous times).
If this information is not look over and thoroughly gone through and talked with other people and a professional, and there is significant behavior change on your part, I will not engage in any further conversation with you.
If the behavior described above continues or any other communication that aims at, belittling, insulting, asking for things or actions or favors from me or Edward I will most likely, ask if any of the above criteria that I have written about have been followed, and try to leave the area.
If the behavior that is expressed in this whole e-mail keeps happening around the house I will have no option but to protect my health, and find other means to meet my needs and achieve my goals, and I will take measures to leave the  household either temporarily or until the problem is resolved and it is safe and healthy to continue.
I'll apologize about my part in all of this and this e-mail is more to prevent myself from entering in such situation and promising or doing things that I don't stand for.
I already know I make mistakes but the constant irrelevant consequences you have brought upon me as a child or teenager have only made me very scared of making mistakes now. For whatever reason you think that is appropriate for a healthy development of a child is beyond me and is not going to be resolved by reason.
 
If you attempt to come to me about what I have written here please do so by e-mail, otherwise I will follow the exact same steps from above.
 
And lastly you told me to come to you calmly and talk to you about these things. I don't understand what could be going on in your mind that does not see that you have never done that to me or Edward, even in insignificant and less important matters.

 

 

I'm curious what the community thinks about sending this e-mail to my parents.

What I have the greatest fear about is that the anxiety will have a great impact on my performance and and finding a new job to support myself and move out, which at the moment is something I am considering, alongside starting to see if I can get weakly therapy sessions from my therapist.
 

 

[Ruben Zandstra]

I'm sorry about your situation Alexandru. 

What is your main concern at this moment?

Is it getting a message across to your parents, or is it becoming independent from them? 

Ideally, the two should not be mutually exclusive. If they are mutually exclusive, or fill you with anxiety, then obviously your parents are not parenting you.

 

Just curious, why did you quit your job?

[shirgall]

Whenever you send an email to someone it is a very good idea to put the bottom line up front (called BLUF, which is popular in business writing) so they have the right frame of mind when they read the email. Frankly the paragraph that reads "Trying to engage..." would be a more satisfactory introduction that the list of URLs.

 

Beyond BLUF, perhaps emphasize that you are trying to solve a problem amicably but that you have distasteful alternatives that nonetheless must be considered.

 

If you are trying to evoke empathy, you may want to include your own try at understanding how they feel and how that may be driving their behavior.

 

Because the concern is that your father in particular doesn't listen or dismisses things out of hand, you may want to engage in the same style of writing as newspaper articles, where the lede of the story is right at the top, and deeper levels of detail are elaborated later. It does not take much for people who read emails to read the first sentence, or the first paragraph and either save the rest for later or delete it or ignore it immediately.

[Alexandru Stan]

What is your main concern at this moment?

 Oh man this really fogged me for some reason.

I think it's that I want to let my parents know of what I intend to do if they continue the same behavior as before.Can you please explain the mutually exclusive part. For some reason it is fogging me, can you explain it differently?I spent a little bit of time thinking of my concern at the moment and what has crossed my mind is that I have not been listened to. The past year my behavior has been to go against what they were telling me. This happened by me not going to college anymore, about a year ago, at which point numerous verbally abusive confrontations between me and my father had occurred.The taught that comes across to me is that my father's "parenting" was aimed at submission and conformity to his wishes. To say the least most decisions were taken for me and I was bullied and forced to follow them. So I was especially anxious about going against those even in my later teen years when we as a family could not work in the USA legally, except my father who was on a VISA. I felt trapped and without help, and I would isolate myself and not talk about these things to anybody including the family members from my country. When I decided not to continue college we already had a green card, so I saw a way out, plus the ideas presented here helped out a bit.

 

I guess I have been feeling anxious lately, partly because I realized how far behind I was, in help, skills, even basics like overall health, employment, and also without any friendships. Talking about things that bothered me, or about the ideas presented by Stef with my previous friends or with my parents has brought upon a whole lot of anxiety; this eventually led to me trying to be truthful with my friends, and trying to establish boundaries to our relationships. This led to me not wanting to interact with them.

 

Just curious, why did you quit your job?

 

I worked as a host at a local IHOP and I was bullied. I finally quit when one of the co-workers threatened me that if he lost his job I would "pay" for it. When I talked to a manager on duty he brought the person in the same office and told us both that if he has to hear this stuff again he would fire whomever brings it up. I left the next day since I was very scared, and uncertain of what to do.

 

Whenever you send an email to someone it is a very good idea to put the bottom line up front (called BLUF, which is popular in business writing) so they have the right frame of mind when they read the email. Frankly the paragraph that reads "Trying to engage..." would be a more satisfactory introduction that the list of URLs.

 

Beyond BLUF, perhaps emphasize that you are trying to solve a problem amicably but that you have distasteful alternatives that nonetheless must be considered.

 

If you are trying to evoke empathy, you may want to include your own try at understanding how they feel and how that may be driving their behavior.

 

Because the concern is that your father in particular doesn't listen or dismisses things out of hand, you may want to engage in the same style of writing as newspaper articles, where the lede of the story is right at the top, and deeper levels of detail are elaborated later. It does not take much for people who read emails to read the first sentence, or the first paragraph and either save the rest for later or delete it or ignore it immediately.

 

Let me work on it and I'll re-post it again with the modifications.

[Ruben Zandstra]

 

Can you please explain the mutually exclusive part. For some reason it is fogging me, can you explain it differently?

 

 

Parenting is about preparing a child for independence. In my opinion good parenting also includes appreciating feedback from your child as a matter of course, all the time.

 

You mention that the email you've prepared for your parents fills you with anxiety.  You fear that it will "have great impact" on your attempts to become independent. Providing your parents with feedback evidently comes at the expense of your becoming independent, they seem to be mutually exclusive, or at least to be coming at each others expense. 

 

 

 

I worked as a host at a local IHOP and I was bullied. I finally quit when one of the co-workers threatened me that if he lost his job I would "pay" for it. When I talked to a manager on duty he brought the person in the same office and told us both that if he has to hear this stuff again he would fire whomever brings it up. I left the next day since I was very scared, and uncertain of what to do.

 

 

 

 

Most children who are bullied are primarily being bullied at home and lack safe attachments with their primal caregivers. Following from this general theory ( which is quite well established), your parents are causal to your dreadful experience at the IHOP. How did they react to your problems at work? 

[Alexandru Stan]

I just wanted to say I'm sorry for not posting any further on this topic. I have a tendency to do exactly this, weather is at jobs or with friends, to not stay connected, and I can tell that maybe what is happening is I'm trying to meet my needs on this forum, like connection, but because that has been backwards in my family (attempting to connect was met with screaming and diminishing words and erasure of my needs so I am susceptible/anxious to not continue to connect), I tend to feel anxious and shameful after disconnecting. I have talked to my therapist a bit more in detail and I had come to the conclusion that my parents are unable to meet my needs or respect my boundaries (I say this with some hesitation, because of recent events).

 

Let me place into my own words to see if I understand the "mutually exclusive" idea about how providing my parents with feedback will come at the expense of my independence.

So if I do talk with my parents about what had happened in my childhood and try to question them about it and try to intervene and give feedback about their parenting towards my brother and I, I am at risk of not being able to achieve independence, which is a need that I have, that they have not met for me through my childhood; in turn I have to use my time and resources to do it apart from them. But why apart from them?Is that what you meant Ruben?

 

This all is under my current frame of mind after I had a talk with them about some of these things and I have become a little bit more comfortable with the idea that they are (only) after my compliance to their wishes of finishing up "my" Associates Degree. In a recent talk I've had with my parents where I tried to connect to them, despite my doubts and in the name of getting the empirical truth about whether it was true that they cannot meet my needs they still held the same views, compliance (father), appeasement of my father (mother).

 

Most children who are bullied are primarily being bullied at home and lack safe attachments with their primal caregivers. Following from this general theory ( which is quite well established), your parents are causal to your dreadful experience at the IHOP. How did they react to your problems at work?

 

And my parents' reaction, well they just asked and at the same time most likely assumed that it was somehow my fault and because I was a bad employee. When I told them that I got bullied they practically did not react at all or maybe in a laughing manner if I remember correctly. So they don't take any responsibility for what their behavior or lack there of had on me. And they did not try to connect with me on it.

Thank you for the feedback, sorry about run-on sentences.

[Ruben Zandstra]

 When I told them that I got bullied they practically did not react at all or maybe in a laughing manner if I remember correctly. So they don't take any responsibility for what their behavior or lack there of had on me. And they did not try to connect with me on it.

 

I'm very sorry this is what you have to make do with, Alexandru.  Your parents appear to be a bunch of retarded assholes from the picture you paint. So you tried to connect with them, shared some of your life's difficulties with them, for which they failed to prepare you, for which they've evidently shown no concern on their own accord. If any reaction at all they laughed at you. How does this make you feel? 

[Alexandru Stan]

 How does this make you feel? 

I was angry, in the moment with them. My voice began to raise before I caught myself. This anger came up a couple of times in the conversations with them.They don't think they are retarded because of all the formal schooling they went through. My father boasts about his achievements in mathematics as a student and about how he has done a lot of the things in his life alone and of his own intellect, ie. deciding to go to college, moving to USA, and of his will power to do them. He uses his achievments to bully me: HE called me crazy because I would not finish (last 2 courses from an Associate's Degree that I regretted starting) what I started . Finished what I started, HE always brings that up that I need to "finish what I started." My emotional response to that is anxiety and I believe shame.

[Ruben Zandstra]

I can fully relate to your anger, and it's conversion into anxiety and shame. In my case it usually goes together with a tightening in my chest for days on end, I lose the ability to sleep, or function with a natural trust in my capacities and skills. There's a general loss of joy, interest and trust in the outside world. Do you feel any of these physical / practical side-effects?

 

So your father bullies you for being a quitter, while he himself quit being a father years ago, assuming he ever intended to properly be one.

[Alexandru Stan]

I relate to what you have said. I get the same tightness in my chest, during talks with my father and my mother, and afterwards. 

In looking for a job right now and I go through exactly the things that you were talking about such as loosing the ability to function or trust my own self. My father pressured me to give him answers about weather I would go to college as soon as possible, without regarding any of my doubts and feelings and ideas about what I want to do; this also increases my anxiety and I just don't feel like looking for a job, because it is in contradiction with his view.And I find very little joy in my life outside of the conversations here and my therapist. I'm not even sure it's joy but more connection and understanding, some form of short term joy follows these sort of moments.

 

And the biggest  thing that I do see myself go through is isolation and also appeasement. I'm still living with them and sometimes I catch myself excusing their behavior for the sake of not being thrown out. The threat of abandonment has been passed around as a comment by my father, "...if he does not do what I tell him, I'll throw him out", from when I was younger and as a teenager.Thank you for bringing that contradiction up as well. My mind gets really disorganized and fogged when I talk to my parents and I forget to apply all the things that they prescribe to me back onto them.

[Ruben Zandstra]

Thank you for validating that. With that in mind, I'm confident in sharing my feeling that getting rid of people who make you feel like that is most likely going to add a bunch of years to your life.

Not even looking at your emotional suffering, just immediately and medically speaking, the elevated blood-pressure, unhealthy chemicals that are produced under stress / depression, all that is going to take it's toll in the long run, and I think I've read that it's about as harmful as smoking a pack a day. 

 

Just saying, perhaps it should have a really high priority to get away from them. 

[Alexandru Stan]

My therapist has said somethig along the lines that my parents are incapable of meeting my needs, and I had talked to him about wanting to move out.I have also niticed that the years spent around them have made me weak physically, I've just started working out due and trying to eat a healthier diet, due to what my doctor said was a week valve in my heart, and a vitamin D defficiency which made my immune system run suboptimally at times. I can tell it is because of the behaviors I had picked up from my childhood to my teen years and to now, in response to my parents' treatment of me, or non-treatent of me.

For me those pysiological aspects already are taking a toll on my body. The problem that I am having is that of my disaster scenario: I will get a job which will place me around stress again, I will isolate and not be able to find any help, I will not have enough money to support myself, I will end up with more self inflicted health problems and I will ....But it's also the fear that I will not be able to afford any therapy or health if my parents decide not to help me with that if I leave.

 

And sometimes the thought that runs through my head is well lets just will it and do it through will power and worry about it afterwards. My therapist told me that I tend to spiral inwards and into negative land. He recommended that I just get a job to survive and adapt with it instead of trying to control all the aspects that I will encounter during the job, like where to eat and how to get there.Truthfully in my emperical behaviour for the past couple of months even though I have said that I want to get out I have been undercutting myself and living just in reaction to my parents. And it scares me to just go "out there" alone, which sounds to me like something that was from childhood.Thx for sharing and validating how I feel.

[Ruben Zandstra]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=297225657105803&set=a.149119505249753.1073741830.147247148770322&type=1