Hello, I need to ask you about something

[PetrKL]

Hi everyone.

Earlier this year, Stef had a female caller on the call-in show (I'm sorry, I don't remember the exact date of the show) she told him that when she was in her early to mid teens, her older friends got her drunk and then had sex right in front of her. If I remember correctly, Stef told her that it means she had been a victim of sexual abuse.

 

Now when I heard this, I was really shocked. You see... until I was 15, me, my parents and my sister had shared one bedroom. It's not that the apartement had only 1 bedroom, but my parents wanted the other room to be a living room. And I remember ... I must have been 8 or 9 years old, one time in the middle of the night, I got woken up by the sounds of ... my parents having sex. I opened my eyes and all I saw were parts of two human bodies sticking from under the blanket, moving and shaking. I heard everything. It was all so loud. In that moment I felt probably the most frightened in my entire life. I turned my head towards the wall, closed my eyes and so badly wanted the whole thing to stop. I was so scared and I couldn't make a sound. I pretended to be sleeping through the whole thing and I hoped they wouldn't find out I was awake.... it felt so powerless... Jesus christ I have tears in my eyes...  This was the first time that I remember, but this situation when I would wake up in the middle of the night by the sounds of them ... had been happening quite frequently until I was 15 when they decided that maybe it's time to turn the living room into another bedroom.

 

It never occured to me to put this in the sexual abuse cathegory. But even before I even started listening to Freedomain Radio I knew I would never forgive them for the fear I felt as a child because of what they did. But using the term sexual abuse just seemed like too much. As a kid I remember thinking it was probably normal and that it surely must be happening to all the other kids... Probably my Stockholm Syndrome.

 

I did some Googling about what effects on children may it have to have sex in front of them, mostly because I wanted to find out if it really does fall into the sexual abuse cathegory. It turns out it really does. So if I understand it correctly, I had no idea for years that I was repeatedly sexually abused. Or pherhaps I was aware the whole time but learned how to supress it. I don't know. I'm so confused. Am I overreacting? What do I do about this? Do I just come up to my parents and say "Mom, dad I want you to know you are complete monsters." ?

[BlackHeron]

I think there is a difference between people having sex when they thought the kids were sleeping and "putting on a show" and getting off on involving others into their sexplay, especially having had to get the other girl liquored-up first to "break the ice" so to speak.   It's like the difference of a family that embraces casual nudity around the home, and someone getting into the face of a child and fondling their junk right in front of them in an aggressive manner.  

 

I am sorry and empathize that you were confused, scared, and ashamed by what you saw your parents doing as a child, and that you did not feel close enough and connected with your parents to be able to talk about it with them and allow them to help you understand that you didn't do anything wrong and that what was happening was a natural thing and nothing to be ashamed or scared of.  They should have noticed that you were upset about something and needed to make you understand that you were safe and they never meant to frighten or alarm you.  Instead, because they didn't do that, you were scared and ashamed and couldn't talk to them about it.  I can imagine that may have made you feel very lonely and all alone in the world at that time, and long afterward.  

 

I think maybe that this might be the real source of your unease about this memory.  Perhaps the issue of a possible lack of connection with your parents on their part, leading to your inability to talk to them about what was bothering you.

[_LiveFree_]

PetrKL,the first thing I would do in your situation is ignore BlackHeron's response to you. 

 

BlackHeron, you took PetrKL's traumatic experience and made it sound as if it was not traumatic, and that PetrKL should realize that he/she was a kid and simply didn't understand. The real trauma being that PetrKL isn't close enough to talk to his/her parent's about what they did. 

 

How despicable. And for that, you've earned a down vote. 

 

PetrKL, if you haven't already, I'd suggest finding a good therapist with which to talk. I have no doubt that this was not the only thing that happened to you. Parent's who can't stop themselves from having sex while in the same room as their kids have some serious issues going on, Eskimo or not. 

[TheMatrixHasMe]

I am speechless. It's horrible what happened.

 

How old are you? ( i just visited your profile and see that you are 22, correct?)

 

Are you currently living at home?

I wonder how Eskimos managed to survive in the frozen northlands in tiny 1-room igloos without sexually abusing their children by having sex in front of them?  Or maybe they went out onto the ice floe on a not-so-freezing day to have sex really fast while all the kids were napping or granny was watching?  Maybe they made a separate sex-shack igloo?

 

I'm being a little flippant but there is a huge difference between people having sex when they thought the kids were sleeping and "putting on a show" and getting off on involving others into their sexplay (especially having had to get the other girl liquored-up first to "break the ice" so to speak.   It's like the difference of a family that embraces casual nudity around the home, and someone getting into the face of a child and fondling their junk right in front of them in an aggressive manner.  

 

I am sorry and really feel for you that you were confused, scared, and ashamed by what you saw your parents doing as a child, and that you did not feel close enough and connected with your parents to be able to talk about it with them and allow them to help you understand that you didn't do anything wrong and that what was happening was a natural thing and nothing to be ashamed or scared of -that you were safe and they never meant to frighten or alarm you.  Instead you were scared and ashamed and couldn't talk to them about it, which may have made you feel very lonely and all alone in the world at that time, and afterward.  I think maybe that is the real source of your unease about this memory.  Perhaps the issue of a possible lack of connection with your parents and a seeming inability to talk to them about what was bothering you is a good place to start with self-knowledge work?

 

 

Black Heron, what's occurred in your history that led you to make such insensitive comments?

[BlackHeron]

I am sorry to have miscommunicated that this was not a traumatic experience for PetrKL.  It most certainly was a traumatic experience.  If what I said made it sound that it wasn't then it was my fault in not explaining myself well.

 

It's NEVER the child's fault when a parent and a child do not connect.  It's not the child's responsibility to be initiate communication or even to convey their needs.  I was simply attempting to state (poorly it seems)  that it sounds like PetrKL was unable to connect with the parents and to be able to express the hurt and confusion at what was seen during the night and not understood.  That's not the fault of the child, there is something lacking in the parenting somewhere that made it hard for PetrKL to come to them and talk about this traumatic experience.  This is something that the parents should have noticed if a child was scared, hurt, and afraid after seeing something.   That's their job.  Kids see things all the time that they don't understand and they should feel comfortable coming to their parents and talking it through.  The fact that PetrKL did not feel comfortable doing this points to what I feel is the real issue.  Lack of connection and compassion on the part of the parents.  That's their job, and I think that they failed PetrKL here in a time of need.

 

I'd like to express again that I did not mean that any of this was the fault of the child PetrKL, or that the trauma of this event was not real.   I meant that this should have been a non-event in a healthy parent/child relationship if it were handled by people with real parenting skills. 

[powder]

BlackHeron, do you think it is OK for parents to have sex in front of an 8 year old?  

[Horseradish]

PetrKL, I'm really sorry this happened to you. It sounds like a horrible, painful memory.

 

No, you are not overreacting. This would not even be appropriate among adults who could process what was happening (unless they had agreed to it). But definitely not if it was your parents. And it happened repeatedly.

 

And just to point out, maybe this is really obvious, but they could have gone to the living room they wanted so badly and had sex there, it's not like they were out of options.

 

 

I am sorry to have miscommunicated that this was not a traumatic experience for PetrKL.  It most certainly was a traumatic experience.  If what I said made it sound that it wasn't then it was my fault in not explaining myself well.

 

It's NEVER the child's fault when a parent and a child do not connect.  It's not the child's responsibility to be initiate communication or even to convey their needs.  I was simply attempting to state (poorly it seems)  that it sounds like PetrKL was unable to connect with the parents and to be able to express the hurt and confusion at what was seen during the night and not understood.  That's not the fault of the child, there is something lacking in the parenting somewhere that made it hard for PetrKL to come to them and talk about this traumatic experience.  This is something that the parents should have noticed if a child was scared, hurt, and afraid after seeing something.   That's their job.  Kids see things all the time that they don't understand and they should feel comfortable coming to their parents and talking it through.  The fact that PetrKL did not feel comfortable doing this points to what I feel is the real issue.  Lack of connection and compassion on the part of the parents.  That's their job, and I think that they failed PetrKL here in a time of need.

 

I'd like to express again that I did not mean that any of this was the fault of the child PetrKL, or that the trauma of this event was not real.   I meant that this should have been a non-event in a healthy parent/child relationship if it were handled by people with real parenting skills. 

I don't think not feeling comfortable enough to talk to his parents about is the real issue. PetrKL said in his original post that he looked online and found that having sex in front of children falls in the sexual abuse category. So sexual abuse is the real issue. What was lacking in their parenting was that they had sex in front of him. I don't think you miscommunicated in your first post, you were quite clear. What you did was tell PetrKL that his terror was unfounded, that it was a minor issue and only about a slight lack of comfort in a relationship.

 

I hope that you can figure out why you want to downplay this, BlackHeron, maybe something in your history. But I think you are adding to PetrKL's abuse in this thread.

[dsayers]

Between "they should have," "because they didn't," and "possible lack of connection with your parents ON THEIR PART," I read Heron's post as placing blame 100% on the parents. If I said to you (whomever is reading this), "Gravity is the reason why you are brought back to Earth when you jump," I don't see how anybody could say I'm finding fault with you for gravity's effect on you. The only reference to you is to explain why something that effects you effects you, not placing blame.

 

But using the term sexual abuse just seemed like too much.

 

I'm really sorry that happened to you at all, especially given the effect it had on you. I hope that now you are able to label it as sexual abuse. I've let both my parents off the hook in the past because it wasn't as bad as it could have been. That doesn't make it not bad though.

[PetrKL]

I am sorry to have miscommunicated that this was not a traumatic experience for PetrKL.  It most certainly was a traumatic experience.  If what I said made it sound that it wasn't then it was my fault in not explaining myself well.

 

It's NEVER the child's fault when a parent and a child do not connect.  It's not the child's responsibility to be initiate communication or even to convey their needs.  I was simply attempting to state (poorly it seems)  that it sounds like PetrKL was unable to connect with the parents and to be able to express the hurt and confusion at what was seen during the night and not understood.  That's not the fault of the child, there is something lacking in the parenting somewhere that made it hard for PetrKL to come to them and talk about this traumatic experience.  This is something that the parents should have noticed if a child was scared, hurt, and afraid after seeing something.   That's their job.  Kids see things all the time that they don't understand and they should feel comfortable coming to their parents and talking it through.  The fact that PetrKL did not feel comfortable doing this points to what I feel is the real issue.  Lack of connection and compassion on the part of the parents.  That's their job, and I think that they failed PetrKL here in a time of need.

 

I'd like to express again that I did not mean that any of this was the fault of the child PetrKL, or that the trauma of this event was not real.   I meant that this should have been a non-event in a healthy parent/child relationship if it were handled by people with real parenting skills. 

 

 

You know, when I read what you wrote I felt so angry at you. And for a second I even regretted posting here. But then when others started to reply it felt good again. I believe you didn't consciously intend to cause more harm. I just wonder why it felt appropriate for you to make such jokes to someone who tells you about a traumatising experience? So I guess we both have a lot more self knowledge to achieve

 

PetrKL,the first thing I would do in your situation is ignore BlackHeron's response to you. 

 

BlackHeron, you took PetrKL's traumatic experience and made it sound as if it was not traumatic, and that PetrKL should realize that he/she was a kid and simply didn't understand. The real trauma being that PetrKL isn't close enough to talk to his/her parent's about what they did. 

 

How despicable. And for that, you've earned a down vote. 

 

PetrKL, if you haven't already, I'd suggest finding a good therapist with which to talk. I have no doubt that this was not the only thing that happened to you. Parent's who can't stop themselves from having sex while in the same room as their kids have some serious issues going on, Eskimo or not. 

 

Hi, you're right, at this point I know therapy will be the only way out of this mess. You're also right that this was not even remotely the only pain they had inflicted on me. And I also completely agree with you that parents capable of such behaviour are seriously messed up themselves already. They are. That's possibly one of the reasons why I got so angry at BlackHeron for his response, he suggested that the real problem is not being able to tell my parents that what they did hurt me, rather than the sole fact that they did.

Thank you guys very much for all your empathetic responses. It felt so fantastic to finally share this experience without being afraid.

I am speechless. It's horrible what happened.

 

How old are you? ( i just visited your profile and see that you are 22, correct?)

 

Are you currently living at home?

 

 Yes, I'm 22. I visit my parents' home every two weeks for a weekend. Basically just to see my sister, visit my grandparents who live in the same town or to meet some pals from my hometown. The rest of the time I live in an apartment in a city 2 hours away, with roommates who are my age.

 

And just to point out, maybe this is really obvious, but they could have gone to the living room they wanted so badly and had sex there, it's not like they were out of options.

 

 

Exactly! But it's like they did not even give a flying damn! I mean ... what kind of a person do you have to be, to not feel bad about something like that and keep doing it over, and over, and over... ?

[Horseradish]

 

 

Exactly! But it's like they did not even give a flying damn! I mean ... what kind of a person do you have to be, to not feel bad about something like that and keep doing it over, and over, and over... ?

 

That's right, I was going to mention that too. It wasn't just a one-time thing, which would have been horrible enough. They found it acceptable to do it over and over for years of your life.

 

Between "they should have," "because they didn't," and "possible lack of connection with your parents ON THEIR PART," I read Heron's post as placing blame 100% on the parents. If I said to you (whomever is reading this), "Gravity is the reason why you are brought back to Earth when you jump," I don't see how anybody could say I'm finding fault with you for gravity's effect on you. The only reference to you is to explain why something that effects you effects you, not placing blame.

 

I don't think anyone said Heron didn't place blame on the parents. However Heron shifted the blame from what PetrKL feels most horribly about, what made him feel possibly the most scared he's been in his life. Heron said "Perhaps the Perhaps the issue of a possible lack of connection with your parents on their part, leading to your inability to talk to them about what was bothering you." Heron place blame on Petr's parents for *something*, but not for what Petr found most terrifying and horrible.

 

And what Heron said is possibly a secondary issue, but he dismissed the main issue that Petr wanted to talk about.