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Posted

I just attended my first meet up today. It did not go well. Through a variety of means, I actively(in hindsight) did everything possible to emotionally derail the entire conversation. My actions left the other FDR members visibly ill. They more or less 86ed me, and even in the moment I could not blame them for doing so. It was like watching a car crash in slow motion. They were smart, empathetic, and all around really nice and welcoming to me. I was closed, numb and failed to empathize with either them or myself. I feel really bad right now--rejected and discouraged, alone. I know that it's my fault. I feel that I need to get professional therapy before I attempt to engage with other listeners again. It's not fair to expose them to my own emotional toxicity. Has anyone else overcome and grown from a bad experience like this? What helped?

Posted

Brought to my attention by kind FDR meet up'er: I vehemently denied ever harboring any suicidal thoughts while simultaneously freely admitting to having indulged in alcoholism for half a decade. So, somehow I fogged the fact that I actually was practicing suicide, and happily ignored the fact. Same for smoking. Ugh. Maybe this didn't go so badly after all. Perhaps someday, they will feel the same way.

Posted

I wasn't there, and I don't know you, but this reads like a bunch of self-attack. You may be placing too much significance on your lack of contribution. I can't tell you how many social situations I've thought about afterward and thought "God, I'm such an asshole, idiot" or whatever, and found out later that people liked me just fine. Now I just ask questions, say what I think, and got rid of the idea that I should be any other way than I am in a given moment.

 

You didn't ruin anything unless there were other emotionally toxic people there feeding off of you. I think what's bothering you is that you think that you missed an opportunity to connect with people. There will be more opportunities, and you'll either connect or fail to connect.

 

I don't think that it makes any sense to isolate yourself with a therapist. See a therapist if you like, but don't hold that as a prerequisite for being with people - you'd just be setting up more obstructions between you and others.

Guest NateC
Posted

Mike,

 

My experience of you in the conversation was of high intensity and an avoidance of emotional exploration.  There was also the inconsistency between the aversion to suicidality and the description of your drinking.

 

I agree with Brentb about the self-attack.  Stay curious, be gentle with yourself, and respect the defenses that protected you in the past and in dangerous environments.

 

Is that helpful, Mike?

Posted

So, how do you know for sure that derailed your conversations during the meetup?

 

How do you know that you are emotionally toxic, and how did that take form during the meetup?

 

 

Since this was your first meetup,  it might be helpful to know that attending a meetup for the first time can be a very complex and emotional experience for some people. If you attend meetups on a regular basis, meeting new people for the first time can be very complicated as well. 

 

It might be worth mentioning that not all FDR meetup group attendees are fully aware, tolerant, virtuous individuals who are aware of their own defense mechanisms, biases, judgements, or hidden agendas.

 

As far as I know, there is no way to verify or certify FDR meetup attendees. Some might be Zeitgeister infiltrators, trolls, hard core Randians/ Objectivists piggy backing on FDR, or NSA operatives for that matter.

 

 I don't want to make it seem that people who attend FDR meetups are a bunch of swarmy, duplicitous, gossipy individuals, who are out to get you, but in my opinion, one needs to be careful about who the people claim to be in any given meetup group. 

 

I mention this because what you were feeling might not have been coming form you.

Guest NateC
Posted

I mention this because what you were feeling might not have been coming form you.

 

Agreed.  Mike, keep in mind I'm still working on my own history.

Posted

@ the Matrixhasme. These guys were both pretty deep. One has been around since the very early days. 

@ Brentb, Thank you. 

@ NateC. hey Nate. Seems top be a lot of agreement with your reaction. 

 

What its like encountering a new FDR milestone(sometimes):

 

Posted

I echo what's been expressed thus far as well. Please don't self-attack, and don't self-attack for the fact that you were self-attacking! Also, it's true, we are working on our histories as we strive to reach out.

 

What's important is that commitment to honesty, courage, and integrity. You showed some serious courage coming out to the meetup, man! That you didn't notice the connection between your alcohol use and suicide is important information for you to have. I didn't know about the alcohol or else I might have said something in the moment (if I had made that connection then--I only realized it much, much later).

 

If you're just starting out, as you are, it's so important to start carving out some space for yourself. It's very easy to continue on in the old habits... and the longer you pace in that rut, the harder it is to get out.

Posted

I just attended my first meet up today. It did not go well. Through a variety of means, I actively(in hindsight) did everything possible to emotionally derail the entire conversation. My actions left the other FDR members visibly ill.

 

Have you considered feeling honored that you got to attend, got to screw it up so badly, and get to attend another meeting all the same? 

 

(I know that you can't force yourself to feel a certain way, and I'm not asking you to do so.  But I wonder whether you've considered that emotion.) 

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