Smash Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 Hello, My name is Asheli and Ive been an active freedom fighter for the last 2 years. Most of my "fight" has been educating friends, family and sharing the great information found on FDR. As well as joining/participating local political/philosophical change groups online and in person. This post was made to help gather information/videos to show my partner in hopes inspiring him to grow as a person and become actively involved in world change. Ive been in a relationship with a virtues and intelligent man for almost two years now and I cannot seem to expose the hidden power structures of our world in a manner that is intelligent, non-absolutist and thought provoking. Granted, when my journey began I fell into some far fetched information, Im afraid I was unable to decipher reality from showmanship-fiction. With this mistake ive lost credibility :/ Ive also been trying to teach him a few things Ive learned on FDR. This has proven more difficult then the above statement. Over the last few weeks Ive put Stefs podcasts on regarding economics, he liked it.The other morning I found him listening to Ron Paul, a video about the federal reserve from1988. Im becoming very hopeful that he is coming around to the reality of things. He graduated with his MA in business and studied economics in undergrad, he believes almost everything he was 100% correct. Im trying desperately to show him otherwise. Here is my very simplistic version of the world. Id like to prove this to him. There is no more "we the people", politics is fake and is used to manipulate government policy's in a way that favors corporations. Money buys votes. Our current monetary system is a sham and elites bankers have been funneling tax payer money into their own pockets via government. Our economy is almost completely fake.There is no such things as a a President elected by the people. This is a reality, not fiction, people in positions of power are more likely to have bad intentions then those not in power. Good people don't crave that amount of power. This was written in a hurry to please forgive its roughness. Asheli
Brentb Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 How do I enforce my opinions of voluntarism on people? Reason and evidence isn't a dogma that needs to be proselytized. Virtuous people seek truth. He'll come around if he's virtuous. I would say to just live your values and be curious about what he thinks and why. Questions make people think and also realize where they are lacking in knowledge.
shirgall Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 Reason and evidence isn't a dogma that needs to be proselytized. The local Christian school here actually claims that logic and evolution are atheist dogma and instructs students on how to resist proselytization. I got into trouble because I told my daughter that "you cannot cherry-pick from the Bible" and she said the same thing to the school administrator.
TheMatrixHasMe Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 The local Christian school here actually claims that logic and evolution are atheist dogma and instructs students on how to resist proselytization. I got into trouble because I told my daughter that "you cannot cherry-pick from the Bible" and she said the same thing to the school administrator. Why are you sending your daughter to a Christian school, and how old is she?
st434u Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 Why are you sending your daughter to a school, and how old is she? FYP ------------------ Ashe, we just had a long talk in the chatroom about this, so to not reiterate what was already said, I think this is an issue that has a lot more to do with relationships than with economics or political theory. Maybe you should post this in another subforum. Finding him a few videos or books might help, but it won't change how he feels about learning about all this at a fundamental level. The desire to figure these things out and learn more about them should come from him. In any case, for basic economics, I would recommend starting with How An Economy Grows and Why It Crashes by Peter and Andrew Schiff. It's written in such a simple way that a 10 year old would understand it, and it only takes a few hours to finish it. They make one mistake in the entire book when they justify a minarchist State, but other than that the book is perfect for a basic understanding of economics and most of the problems in politics. If he's willing to go the extra mile and read a huge book, give him Man, Economy and State by Murray Rothbard.
shirgall Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 Why are you sending your daughter to a Christian school, and how old is she? I tried homeschooling, but I wasn't able to get the kids to be self-directed enough. Public school had a huge class size, so I went with Christian school. My wife is also Christian, a lapsed Mormon, so she preferred that. Daughter is 17, will be a Senior in the coming year. Son is 14. He is even more of a skeptic than she is. I should add that both of my children are ADD and I have elicited help from both the school system and private tutors to help with the situation.
st434u Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 Oh god, I hope you're not giving them drugs for their "ADD"..... (which usually just means they have a mind of their own and want to make their own choices rather than acting like robots) What do you mean when you say you couldn't get them to be self-directed enough? You mean they would not want to learn what you wanted them to? Have you looked into unschooling? I ask because you used the term home-schooling, which is really just schooling but with the teacher being the parent(s).
shirgall Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 I would recommend starting with How An Economy Grows and Why It Crashes by Peter and Andrew Schiff. It's written in such a simple a way that a 10 year old would understand it, and it only takes a few hours to finish it. They make one mistake in the entire book when they justify a minarchist State, but other than that the book is perfect for a basic understanding of economics and most of the problems in politics. I second this one, it's a good book and the new edition has even better illustrations. Oh god, I hope you're not giving them drugs for their "ADD"..... Believe it or not, we do but we resisted the stimulant-based treatment. It makes a huge difference while we try to develop in them the appropriate coping mechanisms. This is not a "sedate obnoxious kids so they shut up" situation. This is a be able to complete complex tasks without angst and disorganization thing. Both my wife's family and the children's father have ADD symptoms through the generations. I did not do this lightly and I would not do it if I didn't see a difference. Even my wife is taking ADD meds and it makes a difference for her! Is this turning into a call-in show now? I hadn't expected to be doing that just yet.
st434u Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 Sorry but I find this extremely troubling. These drugs don't do anything good, and most often the "symptoms" they are trying to treat are either not an issue at all, or a sign of underlying emotional problems that need to be dealt with. I'll leave now and try to come back with some evidence later. We may want to do another thread though (assuming you're up for it), I don't want to hijack Ashe's one. (by the way, I edited my post while you were replying, you may have missed that)
TheMatrixHasMe Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 Hello, My name is Asheli and Ive been an active freedom fighter for the last 2 years. Most of my "fight" has been educating friends, family and sharing the great information found on FDR. As well as joining/participating local political/philosophical change groups online and in person. This post was made to help gather information/videos to show my partner in hopes inspiring him to grow as a person and become actively involved in world change. Ive been in a relationship with a virtues and intelligent man for almost two years now and I cannot seem to expose the hidden power structures of our world in a manner that is intelligent, non-absolutist and thought provoking. Granted, when my journey began I fell into some far fetched information, Im afraid I was unable to decipher reality from showmanship-fiction. With this mistake ive lost credibility :/ Ive also been trying to teach him a few things Ive learned on FDR. This has proven more difficult then the above statement. Over the last few weeks Ive put Stefs podcasts on regarding economics, he liked it.The other morning I found him listening to Ron Paul, a video about the federal reserve from1988. Im becoming very hopeful that he is coming around to the reality of things. He graduated with his MA in business and studied economics in undergrad, he believes almost everything he was 100% correct. Im trying desperately to show him otherwise. Here is my very simplistic version of the world. Id like to prove this to him. There is no more "we the people", politics is fake and is used to manipulate government policy's in a way that favors corporations. Money buys votes. Our current monetary system is a sham and elites bankers have been funneling tax payer money into their own pockets via government. Our economy is almost completely fake.There is no such things as a a President elected by the people. This is a reality, not fiction, people in positions of power are more likely to have bad intentions then those not in power. Good people don't crave that amount of power. This was written in a hurry to please forgive its roughness. Asheli If I understand your post correctly, you want to bring philosophy to your relationship. Is this correct? If I am correct, then I can't avoid asking why you only have 3 posts total. I'm not saying that there should be a post requirement, nor a donation requirement, but how can you expect your significant other to both embrace and live philosophical principles you consider important when there doesn't seem to be a whole lotta evidence of your doing so yourself? If I am missing anything here, please let me know.
shirgall Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 Sorry but I find this extremely troubling. These drugs don't do anything good, and most often the "symptoms" they are trying to treat are either not an issue at all, or a sign of underlying emotional problems that need to be dealt with. You aren't the only one troubled by it. I hate medicating, but the evidence is overwhelming. We tried several ways of doing the self-directed thing yet still cover what we felt were important things to learn when dealing with the world, including homeschooling with tons of resources, an online school called "Washington Virtual Academy", and others. The most academic progress is evident with a structured school environment with small class sizes supplemented with tutoring. The kids like free-ranging discussion, and I do what I can to help with that, but I also try to get across to them that the fundamentals are important. For what it's worth they hate working on math and science with me either because I'm a poor teacher, or perhaps an impatient one (I really do try), but they seem to love argumentation and rhetoric. The daughter loves drama, for example, and we let her run with that. But she has to know enough math to make it through a grocery store. The son likes video games, but we try to urge him in a direction where he critiques them, because he has a bit of a creative writing streak. Yes, stimulants are troublesome and tuning dosage is a big pain in the ass, but when it's too low or not taken you can definitely tell. It's more than a simple obnoxious streak. It's more than bull-headedness. It's an inability to deal with organizing one's life but developing priorities and sticking to them. They have goals, and the vyvanse helps them actual make steps towards goals. If you could see the level of frustration that comes from trying to master a task (like, say, playing the piano) and failing to get past a certain point because something (if not anything) else is suddenly seems more important, I think you'd understand why this hard decision was made. As for the emotional issues, yes we are dealing with the fact that their father died in a plane crash when they were very young. Therapy was certainly used, but we aren't doing that at the moment.
TheMatrixHasMe Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 You aren't the only one troubled by it. I hate medicating, but the evidence is overwhelming. We tried several ways of doing the self-directed thing yet still cover what we felt were important things to learn when dealing with the world, including homeschooling with tons of resources, an online school called "Washington Virtual Academy", and others. The most academic progress is evident with a structured school environment with small class sizes supplemented with tutoring. The kids like free-ranging discussion, and I do what I can to help with that, but I also try to get across to them that the fundamentals are important. For what it's worth they hate working on math and science with me either because I'm a poor teacher, or perhaps an impatient one (I really do try), but they seem to love argumentation and rhetoric. The daughter loves drama, for example, and we let her run with that. But she has to know enough math to make it through a grocery store. The son likes video games, but we try to urge him in a direction where he critiques them, because he has a bit of a creative writing streak. Yes, stimulants are troublesome and tuning dosage is a big pain in the ass, but when it's too low or not taken you can definitely tell. It's more than a simple obnoxious streak. It's more than bull-headedness. It's an inability to deal with organizing one's life but developing priorities and sticking to them. They have goals, and the vyvanse helps them actual make steps towards goals. If you could see the level of frustration that comes from trying to master a task (like, say, playing the piano) and failing to get past a certain point because something (if not anything) else is suddenly seems more important, I think you'd understand why this hard decision was made. As for the emotional issues, yes we are dealing with the fact that their father died in a plane crash when they were very young. Therapy was certainly used, but we aren't doing that at the moment. I don't want to have this thread hijacked either, but as a listener to this show, are you not aware that the use of mind/mood altering drugs on children is dangerous? This is pretty serious stuff, dude. Your children's lives may be at risk, even though you may not think so. I mean, putting a kid on drugs because they're having trouble learning piano? Really? Would you mind starting a new thread? Maybe under the Freedomain Radio Topics / Peaceful Parenting header? Also, I would strongly suggest emailing [email protected] and request a call.
square4 Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 Our current monetary system is a sham and elites bankers have been funneling tax payer money into their own pockets via government. For this point, these two books might be helpful: What Has Government Done to Our Money?, and Wall Street, Banks, and American Foreign Policy.
Smash Posted June 9, 2014 Author Posted June 9, 2014 If I understand your post correctly, you want to bring philosophy to your relationship. Is this correct? If I am correct, then I can't avoid asking why you only have 3 posts total. I'm not saying that there should be a post requirement, nor a donation requirement, but how can you expect your significant other to both embrace and live philosophical principles you consider important when there doesn't seem to be a whole lotta evidence of your doing so yourself? If I am missing anything here, please let me know. If you notice my profile, ive been here about a week. Ive listened to Stef information for a few years now but was unable or unwilling to incorporate them into my own life. I may understand these concepts more then the average Jane but that in no way makes me an expert on the matter. Learning even more is what I feel is needed for me to implement a more philosophical lifestyle. I feel like you are shaming me for my lack of input on the boards and implore you to understand why a toddler doesn't discuss things they know very little about. Im obviously trying to embrace these principles, I made a post. I ask questions. I incorporate feedback. I, in no way, owe you any more evidence of whether or not Im trying to live a more philosophical lifestyle. I thank you none the less for your feedback, you have confirmed that I know very little of what I speak and my journey is just beginning.
shirgall Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 I mean, putting a kid on drugs because they're having trouble learning piano? Really? It is unfair to take a single example from a post and claim it is the sole motivation for an action.
Aaron727 Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 Asheli, I would suggest asking in detail about his childhood. When you ask him see if he talks honestly and openly about it. Try and get a sense if he has processed the past or is still repeating the cycle of abuse. In my experience talking about abstract intellectual topics like economics rarely works if the person is an unprocessed victim of abuse. Dismantling the power structure of the family seems to be effective if the person is virtuous and honest.
cynicist Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 I noticed the same thing as Aaron. You've talked about some of the more intellectual topics like financial policy/the state, but have you mentioned anything about the family yet? Or if he has been introduced to some of the ideas around the family that we talk about here, how did he respond? Easing him into it by starting with the abstract stuff is a smart move, but he may not be able to go very far in that direction if he has emotional blocks from his history. (Congrats on joining the forums btw! I too, lurked for quite some time before posting and, contrary to what matrix posted, think that act in itself can constitute a commitment to the ideas.)
tasmlab Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 Hey, there's two conversations going on! Libertarians aren't created perfect from the first second. For example, it took Stefan 20 years of mulling. It's taken me 15+ so far. It takes most people a long time. Watching a Ron Paul video isn't a bad start. I like the book recommendations of Schiff's "why an economy grows..." and Rothbard's "What has government done to our money". These would be among the first two that I'd recommend. I've bought five copies of the Schiff book so far. I like Schiff's other books (Crash Proof, The Real Crash) for newbies as well. They are very moderate, reflect on current events, easy to read, and are generally non-threatening. That they don't go into ethics, family, anarchism, etc., makes for a smooth run-way.
TheMatrixHasMe Posted June 11, 2014 Posted June 11, 2014 It is unfair to take a single example from a post and claim it is the sole motivation for an action. Compared to placing your children on drugs, my comment is unfair? Would you kindly explain? If you notice my profile, ive been here about a week. Ive listened to Stef information for a few years now but was unable or unwilling to incorporate them into my own life. I may understand these concepts more then the average Jane but that in no way makes me an expert on the matter. Learning even more is what I feel is needed for me to implement a more philosophical lifestyle. I feel like you are shaming me for my lack of input on the boards and implore you to understand why a toddler doesn't discuss things they know very little about. Im obviously trying to embrace these principles, I made a post. I ask questions. I incorporate feedback. I, in no way, owe you any more evidence of whether or not Im trying to live a more philosophical lifestyle. I thank you none the less for your feedback, you have confirmed that I know very little of what I speak and my journey is just beginning. I was not aware that you are entirely new here. For some reason I was under the impression that you were just popping in to the community to get what you needed, and then split. Projection on my part? Perhaps. I value the community here. I have some frustrations with the way the world treats this incredibly valuable resource, and am protective of it. Now that I see that you are a new member, I can see that my response to you has a tone of considerable insensitivity. I hope you will consider accepting my apology. So, I say "welcome" with mumbled tones as I dislodge my computer keyboard from my mouth. Not that you would ask after this initial interaction with me, but if there is anything I can do to help, please let me know. In my defense, I did post "If I am missing anything here, please let me know." Thanks for letting me know.
shirgall Posted June 11, 2014 Posted June 11, 2014 Compared to placing your children on drugs, my comment is unfair? Would you kindly explain? Who's standard of kindly are we going to use? Yours? Your comment is unfair because you boiled down years of experience into a throw-away insult, instead of seeking truth.
TheMatrixHasMe Posted June 11, 2014 Posted June 11, 2014 Shirgall: My asking you when, where or how you are drugging your children, and/or why you are placing them in a school— let alone a religious school—is neither an insult nor is it ignoring years of experience. My standard of kindness is letting you, a total stranger to me, know that you may be causing your children irreparable harm by placing them on drugs AND in a Christian school. Nowhere did I minimize anyone's experience or insult anyone. In case it hasn't crossed your mind, drugging your kids to comply to some Christian standard of pseudo education may be double dipping the actual needs of your children into the manure of a pseudo- educational dog and pony show for the sake of conformity. Now, if you want to twist my curiosity of asking you why you're placing your children on drugs so they can play a little ditty on a god damn piano into an insult, then that is, sadly, your prerogative being excercised to the expense of children who don't sound like they have any choice. If I have to choose between some aesthetic preference of kindness over truth in a philosophy forum, I choose the latter.
meta Posted June 11, 2014 Posted June 11, 2014 Hi Asheli,I think the best to convince someone about the emergency of doing something about our world, is to be able to find things that will resonate with him. It might be a specific subject, something that will happen in his life.Personnaly I have tried to convince my family to stop voting, to stop believing in banking racket, a lot of stuff...I haven't found a way yet. This can be extremely frustrating.Maybe you have to speculate on the fact that he doesn't give a flying duck. Can you love him and build a life with someone with whom you don't share philophical views?Personnaly my girlfriend is interested about all this when I talk about it to her, but she never initiate philosophical discussion.Even if i think it is frustrating, I think there are other way that she completes me, so I don't really care.
TheMatrixHasMe Posted June 11, 2014 Posted June 11, 2014 Arielle : In your original post you wrote "I've been in a relationship with a virtuous and intelligent man " If the man you're referring to is virtuous and intelligent, then there probably shouldn't be any trouble waking him up to empirical philosophy, the non- aggression principle, universally preferable behavior, and the power of real time relationships here on FDR. Assuming I am wrong, what evidence do you have that he is virtuous and intelligent?
shirgall Posted June 11, 2014 Posted June 11, 2014 Shirgall: My asking you when, where or how you are drugging your children, and/or why you are placing them in a school— let alone a religious school—is neither an insult nor is it ignoring years of experience.My standard of kindness is letting you, a total stranger to me, know that you may be causing your children irreparable harm by placing them on drugs AND in a Christian school. Nowhere did I minimize anyone's experience or insult anyone. In case it hasn't crossed your mind, drugging your kids to comply to some Christian standard of pseudo education may be double dipping the actual needs of your children into the manure of a pseudo- educational dog and pony show for the sake of conformity.Now, if you want to twist my curiosity of asking you why you're placing your children on drugs so they can play a little ditty on a god damn piano into an insult, then that is, sadly, your prerogative being excercised to the expense of children who don't sound like they have any choice.If I have to choose between some aesthetic preference of kindness over truth in a philosophy forum, I choose the latter. The fact that you don't recognize it as an insult is telling. I'm seeing a snap decision based on a couple of posts that all situations fit into your mental model of "drugs bad" "religion" bad". Admittedly, I had a far longer discussion on the chat and I could easily find empathetic people there, but your approach does not elicit any desire in me to explain myself. I did not drug them so they could play the piano (let alone the "god damn piano"). I could have just as easily have pointed out difficulty with reading longer passages and picking out the themes and the points or simply learning Geometry. Performing complex tasks without struggle and angst is what I said. The fact that you dove in on a throwaway line in the middle of some serious meat about learning and keep harping on it is dishonest and insulting. Why would I "kindly" engage in conversation at all?
thelizardking52 Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 Meta, I empathize with you. How I desire to have my wife understand the reality of our enslavement but she'd rather take the blue pill and be happy. That's her prerogative and a part of me admires that she won't let the evil in this world take away from her own life. It's hard to find someone I can relate to outside of these boards, but there is a coworker of mine who is getting into FDR and I'm lucky to not be left feeling alone on this. When you do find that person, treasure it. Hi Asheli,I think the best to convince someone about the emergency of doing something about our world, is to be able to find things that will resonate with him. It might be a specific subject, something that will happen in his life.Personnaly I have tried to convince my family to stop voting, to stop believing in banking racket, a lot of stuff...I haven't found a way yet. This can be extremely frustrating.Maybe you have to speculate on the fact that he doesn't give a flying duck. Can you love him and build a life with someone with whom you don't share philophical views?Personnaly my girlfriend is interested about all this when I talk about it to her, but she never initiate philosophical discussion.Even if i think it is frustrating, I think there are other way that she completes me, so I don't really care.
Devon Gibbons Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 I saw some good things in this video: He'd probably find The Peace Revolution podcast and The Ultimate History Lesson enlightening if he was genuinely curious and virtuous like you say; the resources referenced in these media presentations are basically priceless.
cynicist Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 I saw some good things in this video: Hey thanks, that was really interesting. (although I have to admit, the voice was surprising)
_LiveFree_ Posted June 14, 2014 Posted June 14, 2014 Hello, My name is Asheli and Ive been an active freedom fighter for the last 2 years. Most of my "fight" has been educating friends, family and sharing the great information found on FDR. As well as joining/participating local political/philosophical change groups online and in person. This post was made to help gather information/videos to show my partner in hopes inspiring him to grow as a person and become actively involved in world change. Ive been in a relationship with a virtues and intelligent man for almost two years now and I cannot seem to expose the hidden power structures of our world in a manner that is intelligent, non-absolutist and thought provoking. Granted, when my journey began I fell into some far fetched information, Im afraid I was unable to decipher reality from showmanship-fiction. With this mistake ive lost credibility :/ Ive also been trying to teach him a few things Ive learned on FDR. This has proven more difficult then the above statement. Over the last few weeks Ive put Stefs podcasts on regarding economics, he liked it.The other morning I found him listening to Ron Paul, a video about the federal reserve from1988. Im becoming very hopeful that he is coming around to the reality of things. He graduated with his MA in business and studied economics in undergrad, he believes almost everything he was 100% correct. Im trying desperately to show him otherwise. Here is my very simplistic version of the world. Id like to prove this to him. There is no more "we the people", politics is fake and is used to manipulate government policy's in a way that favors corporations. Money buys votes. Our current monetary system is a sham and elites bankers have been funneling tax payer money into their own pockets via government. Our economy is almost completely fake.There is no such things as a a President elected by the people. This is a reality, not fiction, people in positions of power are more likely to have bad intentions then those not in power. Good people don't crave that amount of power. This was written in a hurry to please forgive its roughness. Asheli Welcome to the boards, Asheli! Ok, I'm going to be blunt while hopefully not being insulting. The fact that you are here asking these questions, absorbing this type of information, and desire to help those you love says a great many wonderful things about you. Never doubt that you're very intelligent, empathetic, compassionate, and brave. So here's the truth. You aren't in far enough. You haven't dove into the philosophy enough and applied it to yourself. You've absorbed a ton of information, but information is not your salvation. Anarchy is not about politics, it is about the way you treat yourself. If you are telling yourself that you have to convince your beau of the reality of the world, you are not interacting peaceably with your internal family. You don't have to do anything, and neither does he. If he doesn't want to believe you, there is no amount of force (be it physical or intellectual) that will make him believe you. And that's what you came here for. . . Ammunition. The strategy that you are using (throw my intellectual weight against his) is why he doesn't believe you. You are saying "people aren't free but should be, and I have the answer", while at the same time living your life as a slave and treating him as if you were his master. Here is the ugly truth. You are afraid to live the philosophy of non-aggression and universality. You want him to accept it so that he will wade deeper into the water, then you can safely follow him. This is not a failure of your intellect. It is the same biological mechanism that plays out all over the world in man-woman relationships. Religion is passed on by the woman. She gets her man to subscribe to her world view. In doing so, she ensures that he will act accordingly and bring the most bounty and safety to her life. And she will be able to predict his behavior and therefore, manipulate it, too. So, you've stepped into the water. Now it's time to go all in. Attacking political ideas will never work. Stefan argues that politics is the result of the family. Or more accurately, physically, emotionally, and psychologically violent childhoods produce, from the resulting dysfunctions, a human mind that accepts violent coercion as preferable to voluntary persuasion. The psychological aspect is fundamental to understanding what "freedom" really means. Forget about economics and secret societies. Burn the root of the tree of society and the tree itself will die. Stop hacking at your beau's branches. You'll likely just piss him off. Richard Schwartz, in Internal Family Systems Therapy, talks about 3 classes of personality parts within a human mind: managers, firefighters, exiles. To put it differently: those who dictate, those who enforce, those who are dictated to and enforced upon. Plato described the 3 classes in an "ideal society" as: guardians, auxiliaries, producers. To put it more clearly: those who rule, those who fight, those who work. The French Revolution saw 3 classes known as "Estates": The First Estate (clergy), The Second Estate (nobility), The Third Estate (everyone else). But in reality the First and Second Estates were the same class. The King of France didn't consider himself an Estate but was actually the First Estate (ruler); The Second Estate being the religious and military enforcers, and The Third Estate was all of those who were exiled into poverty. (One could argue that the King's withdrawal from the class system is why society broke down in France. When dysfunctional relationships are not kept in check with each other, things typically get very bad very fast. It's true for society and politics as well as when one personality part takes over the self.) Rulers, Enforces, Exiles. To add one more example out of fiction, in The Matrix Trilogy, the machines were split up into 3 classes; the Deus Ex Machina (ruler) [this was the big machine god at the end of the 3rd movie], agents (enforcers), and the exiles (who were literally called "Exiles"). The machine world represented the human mind. Neo represented the Observing Self. Zion represented the human body. All of these parts were at war with each other until the very end when Neo peacefully united himself (Self and the body) with the enforcers (Agent Smith), and the rulers (Deus Ex Machina in the machine city). All of the sudden all parts stopped fighting each other and trying to dominate each other. Every voice had a place at the table. Only when you have anarchy (voluntary association) between your own inner personality parts will you fully understand the philosophy of non-aggression, and you will be living it every moment of your life. The human mind manifests itself in the world layers upon layers. Asheli, it's time to go deep inside of your own mind. Once you gain a greater understanding of yourself, you'll see your good man naturally drawn to everything that is you. Stop trying to shine a flashlight in his face claiming it's the truth. Become the Sun (like Neo at the end of the 3rd Matrix movie) and he won't ever want to escape your gravity well. The light that you'll be shining then won't be a small beam of ghostly shadow, but life bringing brilliant cosmic rays that illuminate everything. You have everything you need. Now just go and do it. that is my humble opinion Nate
Ahren Posted June 14, 2014 Posted June 14, 2014 Hello,My name is Asheli and Ive been an active freedom fighter for the last 2 years. Most of my "fight" has been educating friends, family and sharing the great information found on FDR. As well as joining/participating local political/philosophical change groups online and in person.This post was made to help gather information/videos to show my partner in hopes inspiring him to grow as a person and become actively involved in world change.Ive been in a relationship with a virtues and intelligent man for almost two years now and I cannot seem to expose the hidden power structures of our world in a manner that is intelligent, non-absolutist and thought provoking. Granted, when my journey began I fell into some far fetched information, Im afraid I was unable to decipher reality from showmanship-fiction. With this mistake ive lost credibility :/Ive also been trying to teach him a few things Ive learned on FDR. This has proven more difficult then the above statement.Over the last few weeks Ive put Stefs podcasts on regarding economics, he liked it.The other morning I found him listening to Ron Paul, a video about the federal reserve from1988. Im becoming very hopeful that he is coming around to the reality of things.He graduated with his MA in business and studied economics in undergrad, he believes almost everything he was 100% correct. Im trying desperately to show him otherwise.AsheliI went through the same situation as you are currently. The problem I had is I was not completely sure about all the things I was learning and would grow angry if someone challeged my views. Not to say you are but just my experience. A deal sealer for anarchy is that one can not argue for something another person has no choice over. For example, two brothers are arguing about whether or not the older one should hit the younger. The younger one provides a great argument and the older brother is impressed by his reasoning skills and actually agrees with him. Seconds later the older brother smacks the younger one across the head. A week later the older brother approaches the younger brother and tells him how much he enjoyed the argument about whether he should hit him or not. He would like to engage in argumentation again. The younger brother being the brighter of the two says, "just get it over with."Another problem people have is with concepts. Concepts not based in a physical reality are subjective and therefore can mean anything. "We the people" can not be produced, no one can point to "we the people", it can't be touched, smelled, tasted, seen, or heard. You can touch a individual human and hear what he/she has to say but not the concept of "we the people". Therefore it is subjective and it can mean whatever someone can convince others it means.The concept can do what ever others can convince them it can. The same goes for the government. It is only a concept that does not exist.
kavih Posted June 15, 2014 Posted June 15, 2014 Asheli, I would recommend inviting him into in-person meetups or in-person events of like-minded people like yourself. With so many sources online for him to learn and even books to read, there exists the same amount of misinformation and false counter-arguments, as well, which can diminish his motivation. Bringing him along to hear from people you associate with can be very powerful and will most likely validate your stance even more. But, him coming along has to be his decision, in the same way it has to be his decision to read a book or article you recommend to him. I recommend this approach, because I didn't truly get "fired up" until I went to my first sign wave for Ron Paul back in 2011. Seeing all of the other activists out there, in the public, jeopardizing their reputation by standing up for "fringe" ideas, gave me that much more motivation to research and find the truth(s). Best of luck! Oh and I just remembered another time where a like-minded friend (Debra) brought her husband (James) to some of our events and he was skeptical of Ron Paul, regardless of how much Debra provided information for him. I talked with him a few times about Ron Paul, and sure enough, Debra told me about a month later, in private, that it was me that helped convince James to support the good Doctor. The best part is that I really didn't do much. I just answered James's questions with the facts I knew. It was the fact that James and my interaction was completely voluntary and in-person, which drastically validating Debra's claims. Now, James is just as active as Debra
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