ThoughtDogFrank Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 Hey everyone, I am currently seeing a therapist thanks to the good advice of FDR because it is important to get professional opinions about why I have certain fears, doubts, and possible irrationalities. One thing that my therapist told me to read was Mind Over Mood, which I find to be helpful but I was wondering if you know of anything to help me stand up for my self more, to have more confidence in myself and act on my findings without irrational fears of failure forcing me to stay still and become passive to others will. If you would like to know more details just ask, but otherwise I am content just with your suggestions. Thank You
Kevin Beal Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 The Psychology of Self Esteem by Nathaniel Branden is very good. Not specifically about assertiveness, but provides a fantastic framework for looking at issues involving self efficacy, self worth, self respect, etc. Something from the book that kinda blew my mind was addressing this voice, I'm sure most of us have, which says "who am I to..." and this sort of self talk. He argues that that sort of self talk is, and he didn't exactly use this language, but..., is like neuro linguistically programming your mind to keep yourself small in whatever ways you might be small. What I've done since then is to notice as quickly as possible when I use that sort of language, since you can't really stop something you're not aware of until later. Noticing that I do that has made me more curious about whether or not I really want to do it, and if so, how I might start going about it. Another thing that isn't really from a book, but I wanted to share was something my own therapist helped me out with, especially with overcommitting to things. Which is to try and treat myself, my time, my emotional energies as highly valuable, scarce resources and whenever someone asks me if I will do something for / with them, to always start from the default: "I have to think about it, but I'll let you know". People asking for things from me can trigger my anxieties around disappointment and approval and I want to go into anxiety management mode and give a quick answer. I have noticed it enough that I can usually catch it and say "let me get back to you about that". I totally just assumed that's the kind of thing you were talking about. If it's not helpful, feel free to disregard.
ThoughtDogFrank Posted June 10, 2014 Author Posted June 10, 2014 Thank you Kevin, that book sounds good. I looked into it after a podcast I heard it mentioned in, I just haven't got around to getting a copy and reading it. What you said about the overcommitting and not valuing ones own energy and time sounds quite relevant to myself. I find it too many times that I fall into this mentality of self doubt and helplessness even though I am able to provide value to others through my discussions with them and the advice that I am able to give. Though its almost as if I have been conditioned to always doubt what I say to people, because when I give advice it sounds solid and inspiring but when it comes to my own life and taking my own advice it appears so much more difficult. I usually tend to live my life in this neutral zone where I discuss my ideas which I think to be good but retract their value in order to maintain comfort in my relationships. I have good friends that I can discuss truth and philosophy with but they too suffer from this self doubt, or fear of taking risks because they just don't trust their abilities. My life is always a little good and a little bad but its very rarely excellent, for instance there is this girl that I think I could have a good relationship with, she is smart, easy to talk to and beautiful, she has these qualities about her that make me feel good when ever I see her or think about her. The issue is that I know what I want in a woman, she seems to fulfill that criteria but im just too afraid of bringing her into my life in a more serious context, because I fear that even if she were to say yes and go out with me she would have to learn about who I most truthfully am, which includes seeing my family and hearing about my experiences in my past that I am not proud of for the most part, im worried that she would just see me as difficult. I feel almost like I don't deserve a woman that good, im worried because she makes me feel something I haven't felt in a while which is happy,I am worried that I may change and what if i treat her poorly. its so stressful for me because i wonder if I am just trying to use a relationship to treat my loneliness. I think I feel like this because I dont really feel in control of my own life. I dont know, thinking about her makes me sort of sad now because I dont think I will be enough. I guess thats why im in therapy.... sorry for the story that drifted off. What do you think? Have you ever experienced this kevin? Are you in a good relationship? The Psychology of Self Esteem by Nathaniel Branden is very good. Not specifically about assertiveness, but provides a fantastic framework for looking at issues involving self efficacy, self worth, self respect, etc. Something from the book that kinda blew my mind was addressing this voice, I'm sure most of us have, which says "who am I to..." and this sort of self talk. He argues that that sort of self talk is, and he didn't exactly use this language, but..., is like neuro linguistically programming your mind to keep yourself small in whatever ways you might be small. What I've done since then is to notice as quickly as possible when I use that sort of language, since you can't really stop something you're not aware of until later. Noticing that I do that has made me more curious about whether or not I really want to do it, and if so, how I might start going about it. Another thing that isn't really from a book, but I wanted to share was something my own therapist helped me out with, especially with overcommitting to things. Which is to try and treat myself, my time, my emotional energies as highly valuable, scarce resources and whenever someone asks me if I will do something for / with them, to always start from the default: "I have to think about it, but I'll let you know". People asking for things from me can trigger my anxieties around disappointment and approval and I want to go into anxiety management mode and give a quick answer. I have noticed it enough that I can usually catch it and say "let me get back to you about that". I totally just assumed that's the kind of thing you were talking about. If it's not helpful, feel free to disregard.
Kevin Beal Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 What do you think? Have you ever experienced this kevin? Are you in a good relationship? I'm single at the moment, and I have never been in love, so I might not be the person to ask about that, but a thought had occurred to me. I am betting that you are a good guy. Getting yourself in therapy and committing to working on yourself is very admirable. And it sounds like (correct me if I'm wrong) that you have a habit of undervaluing yourself, if only implicitly by committing to things because other people would like you to and that sort of thing. Maybe you're not as unworthy as you think. But in any event, that's sort of up for her to decide, right? Maybe an occasional painful situation is worth it to her, especially if she gets that you are committed to the relationship. I don't know what you should do about that, honestly. I have my own issues around dating. And I've definitely had those kinds of thoughts before around being unworthy of love. I didn't really know how to answer that question for myself. I ended up taking the advice from FDR989 How to meet a nice girl!, which was to focus on working on myself and being happy with who I am, and letting a romantic relationship come out of doing that. It hasn't happened yet, though. Damn you Stef! But I don't really meet eligible women often. The social engagements I go to tend to be sausage fests, and most of the women I know are taken or, ... not my type.
ThoughtDogFrank Posted June 11, 2014 Author Posted June 11, 2014 You are right I usually do tend to undervalue my skills, usually because I think that they are common when in reality they aren't and it is just sometimes hard to believe that I am valuable. Its a real issue because I can objectively see that I have value and I have heard that I am a helpful and considerate person, but still when it comes down to accepting praise I find it difficult to accept that I have these qualities.( By reenforcing this idea to me has made it significant enough for me to bring up in my next therapy session, thank you). It is for her to decide, I guess this is why we need feedback from others, perhaps she will be able to see value despite my ignorance to the importance of my values, maybe she will be able to work with me on them because she may see (value), my willingness to make adjustments and seek truth in my life.... That made me really happy. I agree as well the key to finding a good relationship and partner has largely to do with how much we work on ourselves, although I have spent 5 years improving myself, I just still have this baggage that tells me its not enough, I can do more, and im not enough [which i think comes from the lack of positive reinforcement in the sense that I am still single and its not like girls are very interested in me]. This isn't true because since im undervaluing myself I am unable to recognize and truly respect my changes in comparison to those who have no interest in self knowledge and they can certainly succeed and get women, they just have less self doubt and criticism which makes them act more confidently even though their certainty is based more on ignorance than truth. ( does that make sense, am I generalizing too much or missing something in that description?) If you dont mind, what was you experience with this matter and what led you to seek self knowledge instead of a quick relationship? To end off this reply I want to say thank you once again, every response that I get from this community just makes me trust ever more strongly that what happens around FDR is good and essential in many areas of life. I hope that you find that great relationship sooner than later.
Kevin Beal Posted June 11, 2014 Posted June 11, 2014 If you dont mind, what was you experience with this matter and what led you to seek self knowledge instead of a quick relationship? I was terrified of approaching women. Seriously, full on panic attacks with tunnel vision, dizziness, disorientation – the whole deal. I decided to take the self knowledge route so that I might be able to convince myself that I was just overreacting and that I shouldn't be so anxious. Looking back though, I don't think that I was ready to be in a love relationship. That anxiety might have actually saved me from some bad relationships, since I was totally desperate and probably would have made endless excuses for these women. I would have literally killed for some female approval. All that has to do with my history, and I haven't totally processed the history, or even the annihilation panic (I later discovered it was called). So, I'm hesitant to comment anymore on your problem. In any event, I'm glad that I was able to be of some help and that you found philosophy
ThoughtDogFrank Posted June 12, 2014 Author Posted June 12, 2014 I know what you mean I used to get really red and sweaty and start monitoring my breathing. I think you may have just been investing too much importance to the interaction or the value in their acceptance. This is something that as you have read I struggle with as well. Taking the time to realize there is a lack of self knowledge is a very wise decision, bad relationships scar more than taking the time to be honest with yourself and women. When we can be honest with ourselves I think that is when we will be ready to be honest with an honest woman. I just heard the podcast love as a coincidence, pretty good.
Kevin Beal Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 Thanks. I'll check out the podcast you mentioned too.
TheMatrixHasMe Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 Hey ThoughtDog I'm not saying your wrong for posting here, or that you shouldn't be checking other resources, but I'm curious about what brings you here searching for something that you should probably be getting from your therapist. Would you be willing to let them know that you feel like you prefer to be working in the area of self assertion together? If not, why not? Hope this helps. Let me know if I missed something.
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