-My younger sibling was exempt???

[Slavik]

Listening to more and more call in shows, I keep hearing this magical exception of younger siblings from parental abuse.  Where in the world do these older siblings get this?  I keep wanting to scream at the computer "HAVE YOU ASKED, how the hell do you know"??  I am so angry and frustrated to hear this nonsense over and over.  Im so frustrated hearing the elder siblings pseudo justifying inflicting horrendous abuse by saying "I, the older got it worse".  Strangely enough, when asked how the younger is doing, well turns out the younger sibling is falling apart, and cant get their life on track.  God damn it.

--Yes I am the youngest, yes my life so far is in ruin, and yes many times over I have indeed have been heavily abused by my parents while my oldest was not at home, and when he was, and he was adding the abuse as well.  I was also neglected by mother and my grandparents, while my brother was given a lot of support from them (as apparently they thought he needed the support).

 

--Later I fought heavy drug addiction, while my grandmother (a pediatrician,  who was living with us at the time knew I was on drugs and only mentioned it to my mother  in passing)  not a single person intervened.  Suicide attempts and so on.  

 

--My older brother is successful doctor with a family, while I am trying to get my life on track.

 

So older siblings, stop excusing yourself with this nonsense, and ask your younger siblings instead of assuming.

 

Sorry for my rant, but I had to say something.

[A__]

I'm sorry you experienced that injustice. I think I can relate. It sounds like you have some unprocessed thoughts about things. Once in a while (less and less though) I'll get a flash of rage toward my mother now years deceased. I never got to confront her for all the pain and sorrow she caused. All the selfishness, negligence and abuse she inflicted. I can write more in a little while but I have to head out right now. I just wanted to say something quickly for now.

[Stoic_Dreamer]

Well said. I've noticed that as well. My little sister had it far worse than I did in large part because she internalized quite a bit of it, and still won't accept that our parents are not good people.  

 

Does your older brother acknowledge the harm he caused you in childhood?

[DaVinci]

I'm a younger sibling too and I know exactly what you are talking about, and I'm sorry you had to experience that. I'm falling apart and I watch my brother just move on with his life like nothing is wrong. It sucks. All I can really say is that we are in the same boat together and if you want to talk I'll listen.

[Slavik]

Well said. I've noticed that as well. My little sister had it far worse than I did in large part because she internalized quite a bit of it, and still won't accept that our parents are not good people.  

 

Does your older brother acknowledge the harm he caused you in childhood?

Hi stoic, thank you for being that rare older brother who understands, and doesnt completely dismiss their younger siblings.  To answer your question, no my brother doesnt acknowledge anything, he flat out told me that he wishes our father beat us more to give us "structure".

I'm a younger sibling too and I know exactly what you are talking about, and I'm sorry you had to experience that. I'm falling apart and I watch my brother just move on with his life like nothing is wrong. It sucks. All I can really say is that we are in the same boat together and if you want to talk I'll listen.

Hi DaVinci, thanks for replying, Im sorry to hear that you are in the same "boat" as I wouldnt wish it upon anyone.  Thank you very much for offering to talk, I am in therapy right now, so I am more or less ok from that point.  But I really want to thank you for offering to talk.

[TheMatrixHasMe]

I don't want to add insult to your injuries, but wanted to address your experiences of the calls. 

 

But first, I am terribly sorry to hear that you are struggling to get your life back. That you are here voicing your concerns shows great courage in the face of what I can imagine to be a lot of horrible pain and nightmare memories, especially during those calls with older abusive siblings involved. If you've suffered anything close to what many people here have gone through, and people on the calls have either experienced, or acts that they have committed. I don't want to presume anything, but do you experience— moment by moment, on a daily basis— that your very existence is the constant reminder of the hell you went through, and that hell is now yours to inherit?  If so, I know I can certainly relate.

 

It may (or may not) help to know that Stefan is the younger sibling of an older abusive brother, and insanely abusive mother. I'm not sure if his brother was receiving the same, less, or worse than Stefan, but it doesn't matter. Stefan was irreparably harmed, as many of us were. I don't want to erase your past experiences, nor do I want to re-frame your experiences of the magical exceptions you feel are being made on the calls. For what it is worth, I have been listening to the shows for some time, and have never personally heard Stefan or anyone on the show excuse anyone of any behavior for which they were responsible. Children of a certain age (somewhere around 3,4,5 yrs old?) and adults alike are responsible for their actions, but the parents are 100% accountable for creating and allowing their offspring to rip each other apart. We see this scenario occur in society at the larger scale of that thing called the state apparatus. The political constructs we hold nearly and dearly in our minds, and the political masters of the world are 100% accountable for creating the environments where the rest of the tax livestock will always tear each other limb from limb. Never, ever, ever will they think to hold the motherland, fatherland, or homeland accountable.

 

If The Golden Child Abuse Survivor Award should ever come into existence, it will be made of some of the richest, most highly polished turds of shit left behind by our caregivers, which is a great insult to those who actually give care. 

 

Please let me know if this has been helpful, or if I've misinterpreted anything you've written.

[Slavik]

I don't want to add insult to your injuries, but wanted to address your experiences of the calls. 

 

But first, I am terribly sorry to hear that you are struggling to get your life back. That you are here voicing your concerns shows great courage in the face of what I can imagine to be a lot of horrible pain and nightmare memories, especially during those calls with older abusive siblings involved. If you've suffered anything close to what many people here have gone through, and people on the calls have either experienced, or acts that they have committed. I don't want to presume anything, but do you experience— moment by moment, on a daily basis— that your very existence is the constant reminder of the hell you went through, and that hell is now yours to inherit?  If so, I know I can certainly relate.

 

It may (or may not) help to know that Stefan is the younger sibling of an older abusive brother, and insanely abusive mother. I'm not sure if his brother was receiving the same, less, or worse than Stefan, but it doesn't matter. Stefan was irreparably harmed, as many of us were. I don't want to erase your past experiences, nor do I want to re-frame your experiences of the magical exceptions you feel are being made on the calls. For what it is worth, I have been listening to the shows for some time, and have never personally heard Stefan or anyone on the show excuse anyone of any behavior for which they were responsible. Children of a certain age (somewhere around 3,4,5 yrs old?) and adults alike are responsible for their actions, but the parents are 100% accountable for creating and allowing their offspring to rip each other apart. We see this scenario occur in society at the larger scale of that thing called the state apparatus. The political constructs we hold nearly and dearly in our minds, and the political masters of the world are 100% accountable for creating the environments where the rest of the tax livestock will always tear each other limb from limb. Never, ever, ever will they think to hold the motherland, fatherland, or homeland accountable.

 

If The Golden Child Abuse Survivor Award should ever come into existence, it will be made of some of the richest, most highly polished turds of shit left behind by our caregivers, which is a great insult to those who actually give care. 

 

Please let me know if this has been helpful, or if I've misinterpreted anything you've written.

Well I since have passed many podcasts its in 2100's let me repeat the convo.  from my memory

-Stef "So you say you abused your younger brother?"

-Older brother "Well, yes and I feel bad about it"

-Stef "sounds like you are not connected with your feelings, so can you tell me a bit about your brother?"

-Older brother "yeah, when he was growing up, he was their little boy, they always pampered him"

-Stef "so how is he doing now? Have you talked to him about the abuse he suffered?"

-Older Brother "Well now he is on drugs and not doing anything at all, just wasting his life away, thinking his parents are great, so I cant talk to him he wont listen"

-Stef "Ok, can you tell me why did you hit your brother though?  I am just trying to understand"

-Older brother  (long thoughtful pause) " I WANTED... HOW DOES IT FEEL?"

-Stef "What do you mean how does it feel?"

-Older brother "ITS LIKE I WANTED HIM TO KNOW HOW IT FEELS TO BE HURT"

 

If parents abuse children, they do not magically not abuse the youngest.  By the way, the exemption I was talking about, I was referring to elder siblings, I dont think I have ever said anything about Stef or others exempting them.  If you kindly re read my post, you will understand that all that I have wrote, was in direction of elder siblings, not the hosts of the show.

 

I am not going to discuss the things my older brother has done, I will only tell you that like most older siblings he sees nothing wrong with it, nor anything wrong with what our parents have done.

 

Now as far as everything else goes, I think there is something either I or you not getting, if you want to talk in private, feel free to message me. 

[DaVinci]

Hi stoic, thank you for being that rare older brother who understands, and doesnt completely dismiss their younger siblings.  To answer your question, no my brother doesnt acknowledge anything, he flat out told me that he wishes our father beat us more to give us "structure".Hi DaVinci, thanks for replying, Im sorry to hear that you are in the same "boat" as I wouldnt wish it upon anyone.  Thank you very much for offering to talk, I am in therapy right now, so I am more or less ok from that point.  But I really want to thank you for offering to talk.

You're welcome. I've been thinking about therapy recently too. I think Stef could do a whole show, if he hasn't already, on the difference in abuse between an older and younger sibling. I would be curious to see if there are any patterns.

[TheMatrixHasMe]

Well I since have passed many podcasts its in 2100's let me repeat the convo.  from my memory

-Stef "So you say you abused your younger brother?

-Older brother "Well, yes and I feel bad about it"

-Stef "sounds like you are not connected with your feelings, so can you tell me a bit about your brother?"

-Older brother "yeah, when he was growing up, he was their little boy, they always pampered him"

-Stef "so how is he doing now? Have you talked to him about the abuse he suffered?"

-Older Brother "Well now he is on drugs and not doing anything at all, just wasting his life away, thinking his parents are great, so I cant talk to him he wont listen"

-Stef "Ok, can you tell me why did you hit your brother though?  I am just trying to understand"

-Older brother  (long thoughtful pause) " I WANTED... HOW DOES IT FEEL?"

-Stef "What do you mean how does it feel?"

-Older brother "ITS LIKE I WANTED HIM TO KNOW HOW IT FEELS TO BE HURT"

 

If parents abuse children, they do not magically not abuse the youngest.  By the way, the exemption I was talking about, I was referring to elder siblings, I dont think I have ever said anything about Stef or others exempting them.  If you kindly re read my post, you will understand that all that I have wrote, was in direction of elder siblings, not the hosts of the show.

 

I am not going to discuss the things my older brother has done, I will only tell you that like most older siblings he sees nothing wrong with it, nor anything wrong with what our parents have done.

 

Now as far as everything else goes, I think there is something either I or you not getting, if you want to talk in private, feel free to message me. 

 

You wrote "Listening to more and more call in shows, I keep hearing this magical exception of younger siblings from parental abuse. "

 

Do you mean to say that the older siblings who are calling in are granting themselves a magical exception to their behavior by admitting their acts?

[Slavik]

You wrote "Listening to more and more call in shows, I keep hearing this magical exception of younger siblings from parental abuse. "

 

Do you mean to say that the older siblings who are calling in are granting themselves a magical exception to their behavior by admitting their acts?

No, what I mean to say is, the older siblings who call in more than not, think that their younger siblings were exempt from parental abuse.  To be more precise, the older siblings (not all) have this idea that their younger siblings were not abused by their parents, thus giving themselves a post factum "understanding": of why did what they did (abused the younger ones).  

EX: "Yes what I did was wrong in the NAP clause, but from a childs point of view, I, the older was so terribly abused, while the youngest was pampered, so even though my actions were not good/bad, they are understandable" 

 

Lets see if we try this approach (the honest one)

"Yes what I did was wrong, because not only did my parents treated my youngest horribly, I also added to the abuse.  I the oldest abused the youngest, in order to regain a sense of efficacy, while the youngest couldnt pass the abuse to anyone else, thus internalizing all of the abuse.  I the oldest abused the youngest, because I had shitty days, and I didnt care about how the youngest felt, he was my punching back "my venom container" leaving the youngest mired in abuse, in every day dread, with absolutely no one to come to for help.  I the oldest with my abuse helped my youngest to internalize as much of it as possible leaving him with all sorts of disorders and inability to study, only wanting to run away"  

 

Do you not see the difference?   In the first instance, they didnt even bother to ask the youngest of what went on for them, its not even a BNAP, its a bout a mile away from it.  Ask your youngest, ask how they felt, ask about their every day agony to which the eldest added.

[Stoic_Dreamer]

I think we can all agree that Stefan has been consistently empathetic toward younger siblings throughout the years.  I think the divergence is in some of the callers that minimize the suffering of their younger siblings, by either stating that they were too young, or the older sibling had it worse, or the younger sibling was favored, or they were all just young kids trying to survive (in reference to abuse between siblings), or whatever the case happened to be.  I'm a bit sensitive toward the issue because from about 2-11 years I was a total shithead to my sister.  Now I'm trying to help her reconnect to that anger so that she can protect herself.  She still spends time with our parents and sends me texts like "thanks for always being there, especially when we were little kids".  I would rather have her hate me and never speak with me again but be emotionally connected to the truth of our childhood than have some pseudo-fantasy where my parents or myself were good people.

 

3 years ago my parents brought out this old video from when I was 4 and she was 3, where I had taken a utility knife and tape to make a fort out of cardboard boxes.  I wouldn't let my sister in the fort and demanded that she go get a key to open the door.  When she came back I snatched the key out of her hand and shut the door.  She started sobbing and sobbing that I wouldn't let her in.  She cried about it for about a week. Everyone in the room was laughing at the video, including my sister, but it just upset me because I was finally reconnecting with much of the childhood stuff/was emotionally raw.  Apparently I "ruined Christmas" because I started yelling at my parents that it wasn't funny.  That was hardly the worst of it but highlights the disconnect between the four of us and the past.

 

Slavik, that is absolutely horrifying that your brother thinks both of you should have been beaten more as children. I can't imagine what that is like.  Do you think he really believes that or is just saying that to cause you emotional harm?  It sounds like he is pretty empty inside, even with all of the material stuff. Is there much contact between the two of you or have you broken with him?

[Slavik]

I think we can all agree that Stefan has been consistently empathetic toward younger siblings throughout the years.  I think the divergence is in some of the callers that minimize the suffering of their younger siblings, by either stating that they were too young, or the older sibling had it worse, or the younger sibling was favored, or they were all just young kids trying to survive (in reference to abuse between siblings), or whatever the case happened to be.  I'm a bit sensitive toward the issue because from about 2-11 years I was a total shithead to my sister.  Now I'm trying to help her reconnect to that anger so that she can protect herself.  She still spends time with our parents and sends me texts like "thanks for always being there, especially when we were little kids".  I would rather have her hate me and never speak with me again but be emotionally connected to the truth of our childhood than have some pseudo-fantasy where my parents or myself were good people.

 

3 years ago my parents brought out this old video from when I was 4 and she was 3, where I had taken a utility knife and tape to make a fort out of cardboard boxes.  I wouldn't let my sister in the fort and demanded that she go get a key to open the door.  When she came back I snatched the key out of her hand and shut the door.  She started sobbing and sobbing that I wouldn't let her in.  She cried about it for about a week. Everyone in the room was laughing at the video, including my sister, but it just upset me because I was finally reconnecting with much of the childhood stuff/was emotionally raw.  Apparently I "ruined Christmas" because I started yelling at my parents that it wasn't funny.  That was hardly the worst of it but highlights the disconnect between the four of us and the past.

 

Slavik, that is absolutely horrifying that your brother thinks both of you should have been beaten more as children. I can't imagine what that is like.  Do you think he really believes that or is just saying that to cause you emotional harm?  It sounds like he is pretty empty inside, even with all of the material stuff. Is there much contact between the two of you or have you broken with him?

Just to make sure, you personally should get a medal, if I had one, I would give it to you. Im not joking.  You are an older brother I wish I had.  As far as my FOO goes, you hit the the nail on the head when you said that he wanted to cause me more emotional harm.  My brother brought this up when I was talking to him about spanking his child.  Long story short, there is no longer any contact between him and I.

[TheMatrixHasMe]

No, what I mean to say is, the older siblings who call in more than not, think that their younger siblings were exempt from parental abuse.  To be more precise, the older siblings (not all) have this idea that their younger siblings were not abused by their parents, thus giving themselves a post factum "understanding": of why did what they did (abused the younger ones).  

EX: "Yes what I did was wrong in the NAP clause, but from a childs point of view, I, the older was so terribly abused, while the youngest was pampered, so even though my actions were not good/bad, they are understandable" 

 

Lets see if we try this approach (the honest one)

"Yes what I did was wrong, because not only did my parents treated my youngest horribly, I also added to the abuse.  I the oldest abused the youngest, in order to regain a sense of efficacy, while the youngest couldnt pass the abuse to anyone else, thus internalizing all of the abuse.  I the oldest abused the youngest, because I had shitty days, and I didnt care about how the youngest felt, he was my punching back "my venom container" leaving the youngest mired in abuse, in every day dread, with absolutely no one to come to for help.  I the oldest with my abuse helped my youngest to internalize as much of it as possible leaving him with all sorts of disorders and inability to study, only wanting to run away"  

 

Do you not see the difference?   In the first instance, they didnt even bother to ask the youngest of what went on for them, its not even a BNAP, its a bout a mile away from it.  Ask your youngest, ask how they felt, ask about their every day agony to which the eldest added.

 

I want to be clear that there is no need to explain the difference to me. I got it, and I understand it.

 

I was needing clarification on the idea of "magical exceptions". Now I understand that you mean by some callers granting themselves magical exceptions.

 

 

Since the clock is ticking, what do you think is preventing you from getting your life together?

[Stoic_Dreamer]

Being relatively busy with work and school/practicum I am a couple podcasts behind on the feed.  Today working I was listening to I think the one called "you can't fix stupid" and heard a really decent call that I think you would appreciate Slavik.  The caller was incredibly brave and connected when talking about sibling abuse. There was only a small part where he mentioned that he probably took the majority of parental violence that was kind of flinchworthy but it didn't detract from his honesty in the call. You should check it out if you haven't already.

[Slavik]

I want to be clear that there is no need to explain the difference to me. I got it, and I understand it.

 

I was needing clarification on the idea of "magical exceptions". Now I understand that you mean by some callers granting themselves magical exceptions.

 

 

Since the clock is ticking, what do you think is preventing you from getting your life together?

The only thing that is preventing me, is me, thats why I am in therapy

Being relatively busy with work and school/practicum I am a couple podcasts behind on the feed.  Today working I was listening to I think the one called "you can't fix stupid" and heard a really decent call that I think you would appreciate Slavik.  The caller was incredibly brave and connected when talking about sibling abuse. There was only a small part where he mentioned that he probably took the majority of parental violence that was kind of flinchworthy but it didn't detract from his honesty in the call. You should check it out if you haven't already.

I will, thank you, I am steadily going through podcasts, Im catching up.

[TheMatrixHasMe]

Great to hear you're getting some help Slavik. I'm sorry that you have to be the one to pick through the toxic waste dump inside left inside of you by these people euphemistically known as family.

 

How are you feeling about the service the therapist is providing, or not providing to you?

[Kurtis]

Slavik, I found your post when doing a search on 'siblings'. I want to express how deeply sorry I am for your childhood experience and commend you for taking the difficult action to heal the damage created by others. That takes a lot of courage.

 

I want to speak from my perspective of being the oldest of 4 children to show that there is a vast spectrum of childhood/sibling experiences.

 

I was abused more than my siblings. My first few years of life were dominated by abandonment and poor attachment. My siblings are the product of my mother's marriage to my step father. He physically abused me for near 10 years. I was the only one in the family that was the focus of his rage.

 

I don't say this as an attempt at one-upmanship. I'm simply trying to point out the need to be careful to not project our trauma onto others. I never treated my siblings with anything other than love and kindness.

 

Have you been able to communicate your feelings to your siblings? How do they describe their childhood experiences? How do they describe your childhood experience? Have they made amends for their treatment of you?

 

I understand what it's like if you feel alone in your experience of your family. My siblings still all believe that their/our parents are really great and profess deep love for them. This is the cause of major damage in our relationships with each other, damage that is the responsibility of our parents.

 

I can feel the raw pain in your original post. How do you feel about this issue now, have you made progress in therapy on this important topic?

[Slavik]

Slavik, I found your post when doing a search on 'siblings'. I want to express how deeply sorry I am for your childhood experience and commend you for taking the difficult action to heal the damage created by others. That takes a lot of courage.

 

I want to speak from my perspective of being the oldest of 4 children to show that there is a vast spectrum of childhood/sibling experiences.

 

I was abused more than my siblings. My first few years of life were dominated by abandonment and poor attachment. My siblings are the product of my mother's marriage to my step father. He physically abused me for near 10 years. I was the only one in the family that was the focus of his rage.

 

I don't say this as an attempt at one-upmanship. I'm simply trying to point out the need to be careful to not project our trauma onto others. I never treated my siblings with anything other than love and kindness.

 

Have you been able to communicate your feelings to your siblings? How do they describe their childhood experiences? How do they describe your childhood experience? Have they made amends for their treatment of you?

 

I understand what it's like if you feel alone in your experience of your family. My siblings still all believe that their/our parents are really great and profess deep love for them. This is the cause of major damage in our relationships with each other, damage that is the responsibility of our parents.

 

I can feel the raw pain in your original post. How do you feel about this issue now, have you made progress in therapy on this important topic?

Hi Kurtis, thank you for sharing your experience.  I have to say that since this post I have been in therapy for a long time.  I do understand that many experiences can be different in many ways.  You say, you have treated your siblings with care, well I commend you for that, you seem to have that which majority of older siblings did not do, namely treat the younger ones opposite of the way you were treated.  You must be incredibly sensitive and caring person. 

 

As far as my brother goes, I tried talking to him with no results, he is no longer in my life.  My father I have defood from him a very long time ago, many years ago.  A few months back I called him and confronted him about leaving me behind with a sociopath (my grandfather).  I stated my case, found out more information about my past, and left my father back where he belongs, in the past.

 

My mother and I have a somewhat of a relationship, through many talks, she is beginning to understand me, and acknowledges the pain she caused.  The relationship is better than it was ever before with her (although it is still barely a relationship, as I have no way of getting past the harm that was done).

 

Im am still dealing with this and many issues in therapy, I was able to confront the anger, I was able to unearth it.  I am no longer ashamed of being angry, as its anger and not rage.  I feel more calm, when it comes to these issues, I have less doubt in my resolve.

 

Thank you for the reply, I hope I have answered your questions.  Feel free to ask more, or you can PM if you wish I will be happy to chat with you about anything you want