Eight Year Relationship Dissolved

[Erik_T]

Hi guys,

I'm in need of some major morale support right now. I feel absolutely devastated, lost, confused. I've been able to turn to my family and friends for some comfort, but I would hugely appreciate some advice from a community as virtuous and thoughtful as FDR.

Here are the details, in as condensed a form as possible:

I broke up with my girlfriend of about eight years last September. I was not involved with FDR or any other philosophical discussion at the time, so it was for rather superficial reasons. "You don't have the same interests as me; you're a bio major and I'm an english major; we're too different." While these are true, she has characteristics that I should have given more importance. She is very honest, genuine, affectionate (extremely so), and hard working. She is a great cook and decorator, and loves to make people feel comfortable and at home. She is, above all else, a nurturer.  She would have made an excellent wife.

I, however, took these outstanding characteristics for granted. I did not live by virtue then, but by rhetoric, sarcasm, and worship of sardonic wit (I was an English major then, after all). I was a statist, and still confused about my upbringing and how it affected me negatively. I broke up with her, and even though it destroyed her, we remained friends (and were still sleeping together on occassion).

  Flash forward to early 2014 (we're still just friends). I got into FDR and was reading Ayn Rand and things like that. I knew that my exgirlfriend had been molested when she was fifteen, and that, because she repressed it all through highschool and told almost no one, harbored much anger over it. This anger would especially flash when she felt she was being criticized, ganged up on, or not listened to. Because I had been watching Stef, I knew how critical it was that she resolve this, so I attempted to talk to her in more depth about it. It did not go well. I ended up not showing as much empathy as I should have. I believe I was somewhat cold and analytical throughout. She of course was getting frantic, which tends to (especially then. I'm working on this now) make me close up and become distant. She ended up losing complete control because of my detachment and grabbed me violently. I thought she might have hit me a bit while trying to hold me in place, but I'm not sure. I became indignant at this behavior and told her that if she didn't unhand me, I would call the cops (pretty low move, I must say). After that, because she wouldn't give me any space for nearly a week, I became very annoyed. I thought she was trying to force herself on me and be controlling. I should have been more understanding and sympathetic, which I would have been now, but at that time, I was still dealing with issues myself. Whenever I felt like someone was trying to control me, I would often detach myself emotionally. It was a defense mechanism I had adopted from dealing with my mother.

  We got on better terms eventually. Prompted by our heated discussion, she began seeing a therapist. The therapist wanted me to come in at some point, and when she asked me if I'd like to, I said I would think about it. She then asked if we could hang out that week, and I said no because I was busy. I could have made time for her, but I was still annoyed by her persistence with everything. She got defensive, and asked me why I couldn't do anything, and why I seemed to always have time for my other friends. I said didn't want to continue the conversation any longer, and we hung up. For the next three weeks, we only texted briefly.

I ended up watching a video by Stef where he talks about empathy, and I realized I hadn't been reciprocating with my ex-girlfriend as much as I should have been. It was no wonder that we hadn't remained very close. If we watched a movie, it was usually one I wanted to see. If we listened to music, it was usually something I wanted to listen to (our tastes did not coincide that much, especially in music).  Instead of showing interest in what she liked, if I had no interest in it, or found it annoying, I would reject or belittle it in some way. I similarly began to realize, also through some of Stef's video's, how she was a woman I couldn't afford to lose. She was working on her anger issues, and as I said, had many agreeable qualities. I began to focus more on her, instead of myself, and it actually endeared her more to me. I began to fall in love with her again.

  But it was too late by then. In those three weeks of non-communication, she had dabbled on okcupid and found some suitors. They didn't work out at first, so there was a period where I had a chance to win her back. She expressed to me how she could only trust me again if I received therapy for my own issues (I had broken up with once before the occasion spoken of above, actually, and for reasons that were equally superficial). This ended up being a sort of ultimatum. While at first I looked into therapy, I got wrapped up in finishing a short story when my first option for therapy didn't get back with. My exgirlfriend became aware that I was utilizing my time for writing instead of finding a therapist, and of course took it that she was not my top priority. Over the course of a week, her texts became infrequent, and we spoke only sparingly on the phone. I then invited her to pizza on Monday, and she responded with, "I'm sorry, I'm in a relationship with someone now. I have to respect my new boyfriend and not talk to you anymore."

  Even though it was my fault, even though my complacency destroyed every chance I had to get back with her, it hit me harder than I ever could have imagined. Knowing that I could no longer speak with or see the woman I had spent nearly a third of my life with revealed to me just how much I loved her. I think it was the finality of it, and the fact that I was making strides to becoming a more cooperative and empathetic friend. I was finally appreciating her virtues, and no longer focusing on the fact she wasn't interested in history or books. I just wanted to make her happy. I now know how she felt those times I broke up with her, and it's excruciating.

  It's been four days, and still she won't respond to any form of correspondence. I went to her place today and dropped off a bouquet of flowers and a letter pouring my soul out. Still she ignores me. I'm in shambles. I can barely think, eat, or sleep. I've wept more than I think I ever have as an adult. I just don't know what to do. It feels like a piece of me has been ripped out, leaving a raw abscess that I just can't seem to fill. I've lost the woman I love.

I apologize for the lengthy post, but it was therapeutic to get it out. Any advice would be hugely appreciated.

Thank you

[Anuojat]

If you feel like it, you could call unto Stefs shows if you feel comfortable enough to talk about this.

 

But i made few quick (mind you very quick) observations:

 

1. Did SHE love you? Did she have same problems as you did? OR did she recodnize whom you were as a person and tried to help you instead of helping you only to make her feel better?

 

2. She seemed to veer off unto new raletionship rather quickly AND along with barring relationships with you even as friends? Do you not find this rather odd even if you 2 had problems and issues with one another?

 

These are questions you could ask yourself and see if there anything that seems to click along with your own problems and issues, because its rarely so one sided especially since you so openly express that you were at fault. The support (or lack there of) and its type is critical for knowing what kind of relationship it accurately was.

 

Now answers that "i" need but moreover thigns which you may need for yourself.

[Wuzzums]

You said she went to therapy which may mean that she developed more self knowledge than you. From what you said she did try to make you catch up but you dismissed it so I wouldn't fault her on that.

 

If it's true, if she is indeed ahead of you in emotional development then there's a silver lining. If she's looking for a relationship she'll obviously look for mate with the same degree of self knowledge as her. Doubt there's many of those on Okcupid. Second, if you want to get her back then you have to start doing some self work, focus on yourself entirely. If you grow enough maybe she'll consider you as candidate again and if not, then you have all that newly acquired self knowledge to fall back on. It's a win win.

[PatrickC]

I can only read between the lines somewhat, but it was certainly good that you finally understood your own lack of empathy for her. But it's clear that there was certainly still a part of you that wanted to sabotage this relationship by not following through with your girlfriends desire for you to go to therapy. How can she possibly trust you to do the right thing in future?

 

I mean you have my sympathy, romantic relationships are hard. Particularly if we have a history of unprocessed abuse or neglect. But take it from someone who has had to learn over and over again in this area. If you don't try to grasp the reasons for your history through self reflection or therapy. You are doomed to keep doing the same things time and time again in any future romantic relationships. And even after all that, it's still hard.

 

Personally I would forget about your ex girlfriend and pursue therapy with a vengence. It will eventually put the despair you are feeling now into its proper and insightful place. Time to grasp the nettle and make this an opportunity to improve your future. Best wishes.

[Erik_T]

You said she went to therapy which may mean that she developed more self knowledge than you. From what you said she did try to make you catch up but you dismissed it so I wouldn't fault her on that.

 

If it's true, if she is indeed ahead of you in emotional development then there's a silver lining. If she's looking for a relationship she'll obviously look for mate with the same degree of self knowledge as her. Doubt there's many of those on Okcupid. Second, if you want to get her back then you have to start doing some self work, focus on yourself entirely. If you grow enough maybe she'll consider you as candidate again and if not, then you have all that newly acquired self knowledge to fall back on. It's a win win.

I agree. I'm currently looking for a therapist again. I believe what she found appealing about some of the men on okcupid (and trust me, she was put off by a vast majority on there) was that they were already established in their careers, and therefore had much better paying jobs. She enjoys going out, traveling, and generally having fun--all of which require money, typically. After gaining an associates in English (a poor decision), I was accepted to UC Berkeley, but decided not to enroll because of my newly established voluntarist beliefs. I no longer found it permissible to force others to pay for my schooling (through financial aid), especially when it was for something as nearly valueless as learning how to analyze fiction through a Marxist lens. It's not like I would have been raking in the dough with a bachelor's in English anyway. I decided to instead start over and become an electrician. At the moment, I'm a twenty-seven year old who still works at a cafe. It seems that my snail's pace in establishing myself wore her patience, and that men with cars, flats in San Francisco, and tons of disposable income were just too tempting to pass up. Not only that, but I tend to enjoy deep discussion as opposed to just going out and "having fun". Perhaps this was inevitable.

I can only read between the lines somewhat, but it was certainly good that you finally understood your own lack of empathy for her. But it's clear that there was certainly still a part of you that wanted to sabotage this relationship by not following through with your girlfriends desire for you to go to therapy. How can she possibly trust you to do the right thing in future?

 

I mean you have my sympathy, romantic relationships are hard. Particularly if we have a history of unprocessed abuse or neglect. But take it from someone who has had to learn over and over again in this area. If you don't try to grasp the reasons for your history through self reflection or therapy. You are doomed to keep doing the same things time and time again in any future romantic relationships. And even after all that, it's still hard.

 

Personally I would forget about your ex girlfriend and pursue therapy with a vengence. It will eventually put the despair you are feeling now into its proper and insightful place. Time to grasp the nettle and make this an opportunity to improve your future. Best wishes.

You are very perceptive, xelent. Yes, I certainly did allow the relationship to fall apart. Even though I was making strides, I still didn't pursue therapy as voraciously as I should have--as voraciously as I am now. My sense of urgency had increased, but no where near to the degree it has now. It just somehow didn't seem like a possibility until it was too late, that she would actually cut me out. My complacency was still at work. I had almost always approached the relationship in a laid back, nonchalant manner. I was still too comfortable. Deep down, I think I knew it was inevitable. Actually, that's bullshit--downfalls in relationships are only inevitable if you let them happen. I know I wanted this in some way--that is, until it actually happened. I'm greatly conflicted, as you can see. This is why I'm in desperate need of a therapist.

Thank you for your insight. It further hits home how much I need to gain greater self knowledge.

One important thing that I forgot to mention:

She was pretty deprecatory towards Stefan and the voluntarist, anarcho-capitalist movement. This might have been in part because I initially became very defensive and argumentative about her objections, but I know that her disapproval further distanced myself from her. Still, I should have approached it more tactfully. I believe she's sensible enough to have come around, but she associated it with (incorrectly) my breaking up with her. What would you guys have done? 

[PatrickC]

Glad to hear it man. Tea and sympathy is one thing, but it's where the rubber meets the road that really matters.

 

Regarding your ex girlfriends disquiet about Stefan and ancapistan, well I think you answered it yourself.

[TheMatrixHasMe]

Sorry for the pain you're going through, dude. You will make it through, but it sounds like it's going to require some extra care and gentleness with yourself, with ample amounts of reason and evidence.

 

At the moment, I get the feeling from your posts that you are throwing yourself an internal beating that can only be matched by a few of the better special effects film production companies used by Hollywood.

 

Yes, as Xelent mentioned, relationships can be challenging, and hopefully in the positive sense. Breakups can be rough, but this one sounds like it has been going on for a long time, and in very slow motion. That you are working in a shit economy is great, but if its something that is allowing you some independence for now, it might not be all that bad if you have nothing else going on. And this is where you may begin to realize that you are free to choose differently. I assume that  you don't have any children, and I assume at your age you're probably not drowning in debt, or are anchored with a mortgage etc., correct? So, this could be a great learning opportunity, and a chance to improve you relationship with yourself, and with others.

 

Out of curiosity, I have a few questions. Naturally, there is no obligation to reply to them, but examining the facts can sometimes be helpful.

 

• how old is the ex?

 

• what was she doing in the areas of work, or career, or school, or interests?

 

• is she living at home or away from home solo, or with roommates?

 

• how attractive is she on a scale of one to ten? 

 

• what is your current living arrangement (parents, solo, roommates?)

 

• how attractive are you on a scale of one to ten? 

 

• what are the subjects or topics, or jobs, or careers that make your pupils dilate while mumbling something like "holy shit, that's awesome, I wish I could do that" to yourself?

[tjt]

Erik, I'm sorry to hear about your struggles. I just wanted to add a few observations.

 

Second, if you want to get her back then you have to start doing some self work, focus on yourself entirely. If you grow enough maybe she'll consider you as candidate again and if not, then you have all that newly acquired self knowledge to fall back on. It's a win win.

 

Something doesn't settle with me about this statement. Wuzzums says that you need to focus on yourself entirely in an attempt to get her back. Well that doesn't sound like entirely focusing on yourself, because the motive is to get her back which is not an intrinsic motivation. If you pursue self knowledge to get her back, you don't have control over the outcome... she may or may not come back to you after all of that work you did. And if you put forward all of this energy and work thinking that it would bring her back to you, you will be broken inside when it doesn't work... because you tried to control something that you couldn't. But if you let go of that relationship, and your motive becomes to improve yourself, then you do have 100% control over the outcome. Which is why I agree with Xelent:

 

 

 

Personally I would forget about your ex girlfriend and pursue therapy with a vengence. It will eventually put the despair you are feeling now into its proper and insightful place. Time to grasp the nettle and make this an opportunity to improve your future. Best wishes.

 

 

 

Also, you said that your ex is nurturing, however you didn't demonstrate this while describing the current situation. In fact, she sounds like quite the opposite of nurturing, which is defined as: to support and encourage, as during the period of training or development

 

You say that she is nurturing, but provided so many counter examples to that statement. She did not exercise patience with you nor did she help you discover things about yourself, rather she gave you an ultimatum demanding you go to therapy or else. Maybe I'm wrong about this, but it seems to me she was not curious as to why you were procrastinating or avoiding therapy. Curiosity would have been a nurturing attempt to support and encourage you to do what's best for you. Instead, she took it personally and tried to shame you by saying that "you won't go to therapy, therefore you don't prioritize me." That's not a good way to try to help or nurture someone... in fact she was actually attacking you. So I think you may be blinded by the propaganda and are having trouble seeing the truth in this relationship, because what you have described is NOT a nurturing woman.

[Erik_T]

Sorry for the pain you're going through, dude. You will make it through, but it sounds like it's going to require some extra care and gentleness with yourself, with ample amounts of reason and evidence.

 

At the moment, I get the feeling from your posts that you are throwing yourself an internal beating that can only be matched by a few of the better special effects film production companies used by Hollywood.

 

Yes, as Xelent mentioned, relationships can be challenging, and hopefully in the positive sense. Breakups can be rough, but this one sounds like it has been going on for a long time, and in very slow motion. That you are working in a shit economy is great, but if its something that is allowing you some independence for now, it might not be all that bad if you have nothing else going on. And this is where you may begin to realize that you are free to choose differently. I assume that  you don't have any children, and I assume at your age you're probably not drowning in debt, or are anchored with a mortgage etc., correct? So, this could be a great learning opportunity, and a chance to improve you relationship with yourself, and with others.

 

Out of curiosity, I have a few questions. Naturally, there is no obligation to reply to them, but examining the facts can sometimes be helpful.

 

• how old is the ex?

 

• what was she doing in the areas of work, or career, or school, or interests?

 

• is she living at home or away from home solo, or with roommates?

 

• how attractive is she on a scale of one to ten? 

 

• what is your current living arrangement (parents, solo, roommates?)

 

• how attractive are you on a scale of one to ten? 

 

• what are the subjects or topics, or jobs, or careers that make your pupils dilate while mumbling something like "holy shit, that's awesome, I wish I could do that" to yourself?

Thank you for the encouraging words, Steve. I'm feeling much better today, actually. Yesterday, I drove to her parent's place, where she still lives, and dropped off flowers and a letter expressing my love and remorse and yearning. All that soul spilling stuff. I wanted to be sure I had done everything in my power to show how much I care.  She has not responded to any of it. It's over.

Now, because I have accepted this, and my anguish has subsided (in large part to your guys' help), I remembered a very important detail about our relationship. When I had broken up with her before, it was always after a long sequence of days together, like a week. It's interesting how remorse blinds you to everything but the good times, but I had forgotten the details that always seemed to doom our longevity: if we were given an extended amount of time together, I would find it difficult to remain interested in her conversation. In fact, I remember being annoyed quite a lot. Perhaps this was an aspect of my selfishness, but we would never stay up late, talking about what moved us, what our dreams were, how we felt about the world, or anything too engrossing or deep for that matter. If I tried to bring up such subjects, she might give a cursory answer, but she never seemed too interested or capable. Looking back, it seems like our conversations tended to consist of something cute her dog did, or something mean her sister had said (they were twins and always bickering), or a how a Forensics Files she had watched scared her, or how she had rearranged her room. She is a wonderful person, but to be frank, not a very engaging one. I found it difficult to remain patient with her--perhaps a fault of mine--but regardless, I realize that it never could have lasted. Her endearing qualities would bring me back, but in the end, our inability to communicate on the same level always kept things somewhat distant. I know now, with resignation, that a marriage with her would never have worked. 

Sorry I did not answer all of your questions, Steve. I am living on my own, with only marginal debt from a loan I took out years ago. No kids. I am financially autonomous, so I do have that to be proud of. This whole experience has been very enlightening. I suppose I should be grateful for it in some way.

[Erik_T]

Erik, I'm sorry to hear about your struggles. I just wanted to add a few observations.

 

 

Something doesn't settle with me about this statement. Wuzzums says that you need to focus on yourself entirely in an attempt to get her back. Well that doesn't sound like entirely focusing on yourself, because the motive is to get her back which is not an intrinsic motivation. If you pursue self knowledge to get her back, you don't have control over the outcome... she may or may not come back to you after all of that work you did. And if you put forward all of this energy and work thinking that it would bring her back to you, you will be broken inside when it doesn't work... because you tried to control something that you couldn't. But if you let go of that relationship, and your motive becomes to improve yourself, then you do have 100% control over the outcome. Which is why I agree with Xelent:

Agreed. I can't entertain that fantasy. As I've come to realize, it would probably never work anyway. It's time to move forward and better myself.

Well guys, I think that's a wrap. Time to look to the future. I truly appreciate the support and kind words. If you ever need anything, please don't hesitate to ask.

Thanks