tasmlab Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 My family went out to dinner last night at a nice-ish restaurant. My wife and I have three kids, aged 3, 6, and 8. The bill arrives and I give the waitress my card. She returns and says that one of the other guests had paid for our check because our kids were so well-behaved. It was a $90 tab. They mystery payor had already left the restaurant, didn't introduce themselves or anything. Completely anonymous. Weird, huh? Some questions: - Are there just some weird generous people in the world doing random acts of kindness? - I'm a peaceful parenter, but for all this guy knows maybe I beat them into submission. - Are my kids that awesome? They were mostly playing with the ipad. - How awful are all of the other kids he sees eating at restaurants? - Did he do anything creepy like follow us home? And... - In a truly free society, would people buy each other dinner without a government? No real big quandary here, just wanted to share. :-)
Wuzzums Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 Hmmm, I'm always put in high spirits by good parenting. So if that stranger's the same, shouldn't he have said something like "because of your parenting"? But then again maybe he did say that but the waitress paraphrased is as "well behaved kids".
nathanm Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 Apply now for the Peaceful Parenting Platinum Credit Card. Membership Has Its Privileges (Which are fully checkable when making purchases in feminist restaurants)
PatrickC Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 Yes, I'd just take this as a great compliment to your family.
RyanT Posted June 27, 2014 Posted June 27, 2014 Totally get it feeling a little bittersweet if maybe the guy walked away thinking you were some disciplinarian, but as Patrick said, serious compliment to you family and parenting all the same.
ribuck Posted June 27, 2014 Posted June 27, 2014 It's a pity the benefactor didn't congratulate you in person, and ask the secret of your success. But congratulations anyway!
padmasambhava Posted June 27, 2014 Posted June 27, 2014 Defintely a compliment. If the guy was a weirdo, there's a good chance it would have made the server feel uncomfortable about it.
tasmlab Posted June 27, 2014 Author Posted June 27, 2014 It's a pity the benefactor didn't congratulate you in person, and ask the secret of your success. But congratulations anyway! Yea, although I wouldn't have accepted the gift. I can't really take any credit either, they're good kids all on their own.
luminescent Posted June 27, 2014 Posted June 27, 2014 Following are my answers to> Some questions:> - Are there just some weird generous people in the world doing random acts of kindness?I suspect that people who do random acts of kindness may have some possibility of also being weird, sure. However, what your anonymous benefactor did wasn't random. You, I'm afraid, were very precisely targeted for this act of kindness. (I'm sorry but you'll just have to face facts.)> - I'm a peaceful parenter, but for all this guy knows maybe I beat them into submission.I suggest that there's a big difference between well-behaved because they're well-treated, and "well-behaved" because they're mis-treated. I don't think the latter even sort-of exists, except if the child is nearly comatose with anxiety, otherwise, "mis-behavior" keeps showing through. Part of the answer is in the question. They're not submissive (I feel confident in stating), therefore it's obvious that you haven't beat them into submission. A word to the wise: You'll have to multiply your beatings schedule pronto, because you're failing so miserably. Let's see, maybe quadruple would be good... So 0 beatings times 4 equals... well... Okay I think you're destined to be a failure at the submission thing. (I'm sorry to have to be the one to tell you about that.)So, the question might become, did the benefactor gift you with dinner because 1. your children were well-treated well-behaved, or 2. because they were quiet, irrespective of how they got that way. Well, I think the first one is more likely to become an anonymous benefactor than the second one. Can't prove it, but I'm going to say it's true anyway.> - Are my kids that awesome? They were mostly playing with the ipad.Relative to the rest of the population, awesome is probably the right word. Hm, I see this question as suggesting more proof that your benefactor is the first type of person... a person who has the ability to see true awesomeness where it exists (even if it's mostly playing with an ipad) and be pleased to find it. And then want to express appreciation for it.> - How awful are all of the other kids he sees eating at restaurants?Well... You might have noticed... The awful ones just happen to stand out a bit more than the mediocre ones. Therefore, by contrast making the awesome ones look extra-awesome. So you got a boon there, I'll grant you that. Here's a quote about it: "In a world devoid of awesomeness, even the tiniest bit of awesome can appear extra-awesome." (Heh, I just made that up.)> - Did he do anything creepy like follow us home?Of course not. That's why he left before you did, so that there wouldn't be that awkward moment where your eyes meet and everybody thinks "hey I think this is supposed to feel creepy..." Which, I think it feels creepy mostly because in this society people usually only do something generous if they want something in return or have already gotten something in return. Oh. I could have said that shorter by saying (like Stef points out), that people run a personal cost-benefit analysis. Showing appreciation to strangers seems... well, pointless. I mean, what's in it for me?There is the fact however, that he could have walked up to your table and just told you what he thought, and that would likely have been acceptable to eveybody, and if he had done it well you would have left pleased and not questioning creepiness. My guess there is that he felt uncomfortable doing that and so resorted to money, the (currently) universal representation of appreciation.> And...> - In a truly free society, would people buy each other dinner without a government?Ok, I know it's not a real question, but I want to answer anyway.Heck YEAH! I think a lot more transactions will be the equivalent of people buying strangers dinner... but not because their children are well-behaved. When everybody's children are awesome, awesome children will be unremarkable. So to explain, I think that's what the donation model is about -- pay what you want, pay what it's worth to you. So, you donate to Stef. His stuff is out there for free. You are gifting him a donation because you appreciate what he's doing for you, WITHOUT there being a fixed-price, "x has been determined as its value" at this fixed point in time sort of measure and trade. Instead of having to pin eveything to a single point in time, concrete, tit-for-tat model (clumsy description), you're acting within the web-like, cooperative, aware of diffuse benefits that stretch forward in time model (another clumsy description.) A more evolved model, a newer psychoclass, more complex.Now, granted, Stef asks for the donations. But he'd far rather not have to ask, and that makes perfect sense to me. Much better (more free?) if everybody automatically thinks about whether it's worth anything to them, how much it's worth, etc. and then acts on that and donates accordingly without being prompted. It doesn't feel like people care about your birthday if you have to ask them to buy you a present.So, a question back to you: If you went back in time and ran across Stef's stuff all over again, while knowing all the things you know now, but he DIDN'T prompt for donations, could you imagine yourself being inspired to want to send him something, if only he would accept it, and if only it wouldn't feel too creepy to do so?Yah, same thing! You just bought some stranger dinner! LOL!Anyway, that's a rough view of my perspective. I enjoyed answering this-- thank you so much for posting it as a big list of questions. Answering them has helped clarify a few things for me, which I really appreciate. Keep up the good work parenting-wise, and kudos on your acheivement.
tasmlab Posted June 27, 2014 Author Posted June 27, 2014 Thanks for the big response, Luminescent! I very much enjoyed it. I don't exactly remember how much solicitation I heard before donating to FDR, although it was only after a few podcasts and I also bought the entire book collection to show support, unsure if I was going to read them. I was already donating to other sites, so it felt natural to support FDR right away. I guess there's a donation convention on the Internet that's easy to grab on to. I can't imagine buying someone else's dinner just because I liked their behavior. It would be interesting if everyone was in the habit of physically rewarding things that they liked. How about this twisted replacement for government: Instead of everyone having to ship 30% of their income to Washington, it's instead a law that everyone has to spend 30% of their income rewarding other people's good behavior?
luminescent Posted June 28, 2014 Posted June 28, 2014 @PatrickCThank you very much! I appreciate it.@tasmlabI'm very glad you enjoyed it! You said:> I guess there's a donation convention on the Internet that's easy to grab on to. I can't imagine buying someone else's dinner just because I liked their behavior.I agree with that, one seems awkward and the other doesn't. So, why? Is it because when it's for content it seems okay, when it's for behavior it seems weird? Or because rewarding behavior seems "parental"? Or because the internet was new so it was easier to adopt a different convention? Or because content seems big and measureable and behavior seems small and negligible? Or something else? Do you have any feelings about about any of those? Or other thoughts as to why?> It would be interesting if everyone was in the habit of physically rewarding things that they liked.I agree. Interesting.> How about this twisted replacement for government: Instead of everyone having to ship 30% of their income to Washington, it's instead a law that everyone has to spend 30% of their income rewarding other people's good behavior?I think that would be VERY interesting. I wonder what kind of behavior modifications might come out of it...? I like the donation model for intellectual property very much. I also like when somebody is selling something physical, charging a minimum amount and accepting donations on top of that. I'm not sure about just "yay you're a good person, here's a quarter" though. Being good should be the norm for everybody. I think it gets rewarded at this period in tiime because it's rare. And I have NO problem with it being rewarded and with the recipient being totally satisfied to receive it. Because, oy, when you find someone who's doing the right thing, it can feel like an oasis in a desert! You want to cry and hug them, and you want to buy them a car! Eh, but dinner is about all you can swing. (Plus, you don't wanna appear creepy or anything. You know?)I'm repeating:> How about this twisted replacement for governmentto add: It's more like some un-twisting of government, I'd say.
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