MMX2010 Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/24/verizon-ad-tells-parents-to-encourage-girls_n_5526236.html?fb_action_ids=10201535002171520&fb_action_types=og.likes Can anyone help me untangle why this article makes me so mad? My first instinct is to say, "If girls seriously give up their passionate dreams to become scientists and engineers just because someone tells them they're pretty, then there's no way in heck they had the intestinal fortitude to solve differential equations in the first place." But I don't know whether that instinct is correct. And I'm sure there's more to my annoyance. Thanks in advance.
Brentb Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 I think there's some validity in the message of the commercial, in that girls will likely choose to cultivate that part of themselves that is valued most by others. The commercial may annoy you because it's stupid. Boys are also being told to put gross things down, not mess up their clothes, and that they're cute or good-looking probably just as much as girls. Are we supposed to make a special effort avoid complimenting little girls appearances and make sure they mess up their clothes? Or It may annoy you because the entire public education system is already set up to give girls an advantage (grade-wise anyway) over boys, since it prizes obedience and conformity over exploration and creativity. I find it annoying because what's wrong with 18%? Why should it be any higher than that? If most women aren't interested enough in science or tech to make it the primary focus of their career, then so what? Only 18% of the NBA is white. Maybe there should be some PSAs to let white people know that they can jump, and that they should just focus and practice harder.
nathanm Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 The off-camera parental comments are illogical because the girl is already in the middle of a given action when she is told not to do said action. If you've got your kid in rubber boots and walking down a crick, or on a beach then what sane person says 'don't get dirtydon't touch that'? And if you're building a model rocket why the hell would you think there's no tools involved? The message isn't the worst, but the premise is not believable.
PatrickC Posted June 27, 2014 Posted June 27, 2014 Since it's a commercial, it's trying to appeal to women's intellectual vanities. "Let's tell her she's pretty smart too". Whilst still keeping the inference that she's still pretty. Yea, it's annoying on so many levels.
luminescent Posted June 27, 2014 Posted June 27, 2014 I didn't watch the ad (bandwidth issues) but I did read the article, plus the first article linked within it.Yuck.Just one example, from the first sentence:"66 percent of 4th grade girls say they like science and math, but only 18 percent of all college engineering majors are female."So, what percentage like science and math *best*? 30 %? 18%? 0%, but 18% go into engineering anyway? What percent of boys go into interior design, fashion design, etc.? (Shouldn't they push more engineering boys into fashion design to free up more space for girls to go into engineering?) Some quotes about statistics:“Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are pliable.” ― Mark Twain“There are three types of lies -- lies, damn lies, and statistics.”"Statistics are like a bikini. They show so much, but they hide the most important parts.”If you feel irked by the article, it's because the article is trying to manipulate your perception subliminally. Oh, and it's not being manipulated about who's going to college for what, that's just the means to get there. The destination is the men-are-bad, women-are-oppressed paradigm. My guess would be that men are wising up to the fact that college is in a bubble, and women not so much. So colleges are advertising to women. This article could just be a subliminal advertizing piece for colleges, consciously written as that by the author. The best advertizing works subliminally, provoking unconscious desires (or revulsions), and many women are carrying around the men-are-bad, women-are-oppressed thing, and it feels good to them to have it reinforced subliminally. As irksome as it feels to you, I suspect it can feel equally as good to some of them.It doesn't matter how conscious the paradigm is to the women, however, what matters is how subliminal the reinforcement of that paradigm is in the advertizing. If it's subliminal, it can be a very powerful force.It's also possible that the subliminals of the article were sub-conscious for the author, or that it's somewhere in between conscious and subconscious. My opinion is that it was fully conscious, because the article's just too focused and a little heavy-handed. Anyway, just my thoughts.----edited to remove erroneous info and add clarity
luminescent Posted June 27, 2014 Posted June 27, 2014 I just clipped this picture yesterday: This is another example that I think is related to the same basic subliminal theme of men-are-bad, women-are-oppressed, and it's also about college. Instead of me saying why I think that though, I'm wondering if anyone else has an opinion on what subliminals are going on in this ad? It's on the splash page for Outlook (hotmail).Okay, how can I make the ad big instead of clickable? --------------------------(I go to all of the trouble to write punchy text and then the site pulls my punch... grumble, grumble.)edited for: humor that's so mild it's hardly there and a partially aborted attempt at greater accuracy
MMX2010 Posted June 28, 2014 Author Posted June 28, 2014 Thanks very much for all of your replies. They were very helpful. This article praises all individuals who overcome negative and burdensome social stereotypes. But the most glaring example of these is, "White men are the causes of racial and gender oppression." Therefore, any White man who succeeds is overcoming the most burdensome negative stereotype imaginable. But they are neither mentioned nor celebrated.
Pleiades Posted June 28, 2014 Posted June 28, 2014 If you tell a woman she's pretty then she'll give up on being a scientist? Well, we've been telling men that we're idiots and assholes but that doesn't stop us from being productive. Look, women aren't idiots. Men aren't idiots. We all observe the world around us and we all understand how biology works. Generally speaking men and women are both pursuing things that will either augment their value or status in either society or to the other sex. Little girls will notice that men give more attention to the prettier girls. Young women will like attention from men. They will try to be pretty to get that attention. Also, women value social interactions more than men do. Little boys will notice that women care about what a man has, and that he's athletic. Young men will work to acquire resources or skills to be competitive to get attention from women. I've worked in analytic fields with banks, insurers, and marketing firms. The women who go into analysis and computers and technology won't stop pursuing those things because someone says they are pretty. They are driven women. They have career goals. I call BS. Thanks very much for all of your replies. They were very helpful. This article praises all individuals who overcome negative and burdensome social stereotypes. But the most glaring example of these is, "White men are the causes of racial and gender oppression." Therefore, any White man who succeeds is overcoming the most burdensome negative stereotype imaginable. But they are neither mentioned nor celebrated. I'm not sure how much I agree with this statement. I think what's more accurate is that white men are assigned agency. We are assumed to be responsible for our actions. When we fail, it is our fault. When we succeed, it is our success (and oppression). We aren't celebrated because we are expected to earn our own ends, but non-white non-men are believed to be unfairly disadvantaged so when they succeed it is more of a spectacle. When a woman fails, well society has been keeping her down. It's not her fault. There's not much she can do to change it. Stefan said the same thing when describing his efforts to get out of poverty. If someone told him that it's just the system and he can't get through it and he believed him, then he wouldn't have become the type of leader that he has become.
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