All Men Promote Rape

[JamesP]

Philosophy isn't about alleviating discomfort. It's about seeking the truth.

 

If I am "a part of rape culture" because I am male, well, that's really just the invention of sin, isn't it? There really isn't anything I can do to not be part of rape culture. I can only be slightly less a part of rape culture. According to this feminist, I am, by nature, "rapey."

 

"You're not a rapist, necessarily."

 

Oh, is it the adverb that turns it from a terrible accusation into being generous towards men?

 

The person who posted the article didn't have to call Wanha a rapist, because the article did it for her, and she clearly approves of the article. Oh, wait, sorry, the article almost calls all men rapists.

 

How is that any better? That's not philosophy. That's just people being terrible human beings.

[nickhk]

"You're not a rapist, necessarily."

 

Let us see some antonyms of necessarily, and dump the not.

 

You're a rapist, questionably, or phrased better, you're questionably a rapist.  I bet you could get a jury to convict on that.

 

 

You might be a rapist.  Wow.  What a terrible thing to say.

 

You're not necessarily a rapist, buuuuuuuut... you are, I'm just trying to be nice about it.

 

 

It's hard to tell if those folks think rape is a big deal or not.  They throw accusations around so much at things that aren't rape.  I find the whole thing rather frustrating.

[PatrickC]

If I am "a part of rape culture" because I am male, well, that's really just the invention of sin, isn't it? There really isn't anything I can do to not be part of rape culture. I can only be slightly less a part of rape culture. According to this feminist, I am, by nature, "rapey."

 

The analogy of sin is perhaps the best explanation I've heard for rape culture. We are sinful by our very own flesh.

 

Feminists use shame as a consistent method of keeping men in their place. Sin and shame are completely interchangeable here. Thanks James.

[Ace]

Well, the only way they get away with arguing that a "rape culture" exists is by expanding the definition to the extent where almost everyone can be grouped in. I saw an article in the National Post which looked at some stats put out by a group from a university in Quebec - they consider any instance in which a woman has sex while intoxicated as sexual assault/rape.

 

They also love to reference that book "Body Wars". I haven't read it but the regularly quoted statistics from it are that 8% of men have attempted to or successfully raped someone and 30% of men say that they would rape if they knew they'd get away with it.

[adaywillcome]

Rape culture is just another example of women getting to be all cryptic and mysterious while the man is expected to doltishly fumble around until he somehow stumbles on the secret.

[Frosty]

James, I'd like to point out that you've made a false accusation / issued an unjust lable, if the 'people' you are refering to include 'A Feminist'.  'A Feminist' did not call the OP a rapist.  She did not say that she approved of Chris being called a rapist (at least within the screenshot).  To the contrary, she explicitly stated that, "[men] are a part of rape culture because they have been perpetuating it forever.  (Which, Chris, doesn't mean that they promote actual rape... The article doesn't "essentially" state that at all.)"

 

 

There is a lot of general confusion surrounding the parameters of the term 'rape culture'.  Here is a nice, gender-neutral video that outlines rape culture, without using the emotionally charged label.  I think a decent definition of the phrase encompasses "norms in society that increase the prevalence of sexual violence & agression".

 

 

The main problem that rational people have is that many of the things feminists claim contribute towards rape culture, simply have not been demonstrated. It's much the same argument that Anita Sarkeesian uses to back her video series, there is no actual evidence that tropes about damsels in distress actually cause men to treat women like damsels in distress.

 

Feminists ideology is littered with the same disconnection from reality, the assertions that rape jokes contribute towards rape culture simply isn't backed with any kind of evidence, it's just how they feel at the time. The more honest feminists will actually be up front and complain that essentially it just hurts their feelings and they want it to stop, or put another way they prefer that humans moderate speech instead of having free speech. That's disgusting in and of itself, but at least it's not an outright lie or delusion.

 

Lastly we're responsbile for our own actions, if I tell a rape joke to my friend and someone overhears us and that makes that person think (along with other social programming) that rape is OK and they rape somoene, I'm not responsible for that persons choice, it means that even if you could prove rape jokes contributed to rape culture the morality of disallowing freedom of speech is not so clear.

 

You often see this with ideologues, not only do they want to police actions but they want to police thoughts and feelings too, many modern feminists want a world in which no one is allowed to offend anyone else, you see this across many feminist blogs and articles and it's where the really extremist views appear when they take this to it's "logical" conclusion that if a woman feels bad about someone looking at her it is called "stare rape".

[Psychophant]

Philosophy isn't about alleviating discomfort. It's about seeking the truth.

 

 

If it was just that, it would be no different from e. g. acheology and concepts ain't limited by their definition. Seeking da truth doesn't determine what kinda obstacles you have to overcome to get there.

[J. D. Stembal]

Philosophy isn't about alleviating discomfort. It's about seeking the truth.

 

If I am "a part of rape culture" because I am male, well, that's really just the invention of sin, isn't it? There really isn't anything I can do to not be part of rape culture. I can only be slightly less a part of rape culture. According to this feminist, I am, by nature, "rapey."

 

"You're not a rapist, necessarily."

 

Oh, is it the adverb that turns it from a terrible accusation into being generous towards men?

 

The person who posted the article didn't have to call Wanha a rapist, because the article did it for her, and she clearly approves of the article. Oh, wait, sorry, the article almost calls all men rapists.

 

How is that any better? That's not philosophy. That's just people being terrible human beings.

 

Wait for the feminist campaign to guilt men into voluntarily severing their own penes in order to assuage a woman's fear of rape.

 

You're not necessarily a rapist since you have the opportunity to cut off the offending organ to allow us to feel less nervous.

[adaywillcome]

Wait for the feminist campaign to guilt men into voluntarily severing their own penes in order to assuage a woman's fear of rape. You're not necessarily a rapist since you have the opportunity to cut off the offending organ to allow us to feel less nervous.

That's not enough. We still have fingers, toes, and tongues then. It's about existence.

[WorBlux]

A response to some parts of the article

 

 

"Basically, I acknowledge every woman I meet on the street, or in an elevator, or in a stairway, or wherever, in a way that indicates she’s safe. I want her to feel just as comfortable as if I weren’t there. I accept that any woman I encounter in public doesn’t know me, and thus, all she sees is a man — one who is suddenly near her. I have to keep in mind her sense of space and that my presence might make her feel vulnerable. That’s the key factor — vulnerability."

 

Replace gendered terms with neuter terms, and it's not terrible advice. Abusers of all sorts will push buttons to see if they can get away with it, but psychopaths can come off as glib or suave on first glance. Additionally there are people who are wired a bit different than many people are uncomfortable interacting with at first but it doesn't signify an attack.  Education about how to spot actual potential abusers would be more likely to actually reduce vulnerability. (Men and women alike) 

"I don’t know about you, but I don’t spend much of my life feeling vulnerable. I’ve come to learn that women spend most of their social lives with ever-present, unavoidable feelings 'of vulnerability. Stop and think about that. Imagine always feeling like you could be at risk, like you were living with glass skin.'"

 

 

Either the feelings are justified in which case women can change their social circle and habits. Or it's not and it goes back to gender roles that men are actors and women are acted upon.  If I go out of my way to make women feel specifically not vulnerable, aren't I just reinforcing that stereotype in their minds?  I may pick up on a cue a particular person is uncomfortable and try to adjust my behavior, but on a case by case bases depending on the importance of the interaction and the difficulty of adjusting the behavior. 

 

"As modern men we must seek out danger ..."

 

 

Again, gender roles. Why should I abase myself to every women I see when the simpler solution is to encourage and allow girls to engage in activities that expose them to small risks so they can better learn to manage and accept everyday risks?

 

"Now, I stand about a finger of tequila under six feet. I work out and would say I’m in decent shape, which means when I’m out alone at night, I rarely ever fear for my safety. Many men know exactly what I mean. Most women have no idea what that feels like — to go wherever you want in the world, at any time of day or night, and feel you won’t have a problem. In fact, many women have the exact opposite experience."

 

 

The author here is likely no match for three five foot assailants, nor a midget with a handgun.  Men are more likely to the the victims of violent crime than women. Thankfully violent crime is rare, and there precautions that can be taken, though it seems this author is comfortable dealing with a relatively high threshold.

 

"Because when it comes to assessing a man, whatever one man is capable of, a woman must presume you are capable of. Unfortunately, that means all men must be judged by our worst example. If you think that sort of stereotyping is bullshit, how do you treat a snake you come across in the wild?"

 

 

Depends on what kind of snake... Bull, Garter, Or Rattler? Knowledge is power.

 

"Since no woman can accurately judge you or your intentions on sight, you are assumed to be like all other men. 73% of the time a woman knows her rapist."

 

 

The vast majority of men don't rape, what aren't you assumed to be in that vast majority? Yes most rape is opportunistic, but doesn't that more imply we (both men and women) be on the lookout for behavior that can be classified as victim-probing and challenge it in our social group and expel them if necessary?

 

"When a woman first told me I was part of rape culture, I wanted to disagree for obvious reasons. Like many of you I wanted to say, “Whoa, that ain’t me.” Instead, I listened. Later, I approached a writer I respect. I asked her to write an article with me, wherein she’d explain rape culture to me and to male readers. She stopped returning my emails.

At first, I was annoyed. Then as it became clear she wasn’t going to respond at all, I actually got mad. Luckily, I’ve learned one shouldn’t immediately respond when they feel flashes of anger. Thunder is impressive but it’s the rain that nourishes life. So I let that storm pass and thought about it. I took a walk. They seem to jangle my best thoughts loose.

Blocks from my house, in front of a car wash it dawned on me. If rape culture is so important to me I needed to find out for my self what it is. No woman owes me her time just because I want to know about something she inherently understands. No woman should feel she has to explain rape culture to me just because I want to know what it is. No woman owes me shit. I saw how my desire for a woman to satisfy me ran deep. Even my curiosity, a trait that always made me proud, was marred with the same sort of male-centric presumption that fuels rape culture. I expected to be satisfied. That attitude is the problem. I started reading and kept reading until I understood rape culture and my part in it."

 

 

You don't think some women have a desire to control? Often this is the motivation for false rape accusations. Of course you expected to be satisfied or you wouldn't have put the effort into the contact.  It's not wrong to be angry so long as you handle or express it in a constructive way.  If you could have just shrugged off the rejection you would have never arrived at this insight. This desire to control can also lead to road rage. This desire to control is a significant issue to control in out own personality and society at large, but it doesn't exactly prove a particularly rapey culture.

 

 

[J. D. Stembal]

That's not enough. We still have fingers, toes, and tongues then. It's about existence.

 

Indeed. This is a disturbing possibility, but without the existence of men, who would take out the garbage and unclog the toilet?

[J. D. Stembal]

BUMP!

 

Burnett's thesis on rape culture struck a chord with me. Here are my thoughts inspired by two of his blogs. http://www.endtheusu...n.com/home/?p=9

[Livemike]

Whose turn  it to hand out the leaflets promoting rape culture at the shopping mall? 

[Mister Mister]

  Sorry I just had to comment I laughed out loud upon reading when "Religious White Knight"  offered up the Bible as a good manual on how to treat women respectfully.  How people take themselves seriously??!!!

[Wanha]

Hey FDR,

 

  Sorry I just had to comment I laughed out loud upon reading when "Religious White Knight"  offered up the Bible as a good manual on how to treat women respectfully.  How people take themselves seriously??!!!

I changed all the names to protect identities. Actually I like to write quite a bit, and I haven't seen the style before, but when I write I like to name characters by really blunt things like that. Check out my FDR profile to see an instance of this I wrote in 2008.

 

One more thing, I wrote this as a statist republican ... I didn't quote--wake-up--un-quote until like Zeitgeist came out, and not even really then, maybe during the 2012 election when I followed Ron Paul -- maybe when I started listening to FDR . Anyway I hope the rest of my life is like that, this iterative set of life-scope enhancing realizations. I appreciate the conversation that has occurred just since I posted this thread with an image hosted on my google drive.-Wanha 

[Filip S]

Here's another way to slice this pie, I don't know if anyone else noticed this, but I thought it was quite hilarious:

 

If "A Feminist's" intention is to "un-blind" the world to a reality that is deeply embedded in our culture (a cultural ideal that has been around since the beginning of time), shouldn't she be patient and gentle while she explains her point-of-view, especially since it is so shocking? If something is so embedded, as A Feminist believes it is, how can she logically say, "I don't have to explain it to you, you have to figure it out yourself. You have to unravel 10,000 years of human history by yourself. If you don't, you are evil." 

 

I think that taking a person's statement as true and then asking questions that don't add up is an excellent way to find out whether someone is worth debating/talking to.

[papatree84]

Rape Victims Are Common. Rapists Are Not. (slate.com article)

 

David Lisak (study in article)

 

This study found that only 6% of men ever attempt rape.  Just as with pedophiles it a small percentage of people how do a proportionally large amount of violence. 

 

PLUS! look at this Rape Stats and compare it to kids hit in school!(doesnt even include how often or brutally kids get hit at home). Rape is terrible but a far greater number of kids are getting hit and a far greater number of people are hitting them. But I'm speaking to the choir here. 

 

And if you look at those stats it seems like women could do a lot to help themselves from getting rapped if they were more careful about securely locking their homes and about whose homes they visited considering that a combined total of 57% of rapes happen in either the victims or rapists homes. Just  a thought, stop blaming all men for rape. 

[PatrickC]

That Slate article at least attempts to get to the heart of the matter by going to the facts. But professional victim-hood has become such a popular past time for many College professors of recent decades, that I don't see them giving up that status for women so easily.

 

Of course the most likely person to be assaulted in general are young men between the ages of 16 - 26, whom fit within the college campus age bracket. These outstrip assaults from any other demographic by the largest margin by far.

 

I know that rape is considered far more egregious than say a broken nose or split lip, which is what many of these young men might suffer. It's also often suggested that these men were asking for it, which might be true, but not necessarily so in many cases.

 

I don't know of any study on this, but I might hazard that there are also just a handful of men that engage in violence with other men. Normally fueled by alcohol or jealousy. Since these crimes are considered as relatively minor in comparison to rape (unless leading to a hospital bed or death). These men are generally allowed to carry on their anti social behaviour in relative impunity.

 

Where is the empathy for the many young men who are victims of such crimes.