Self-knowledge when it comes to sexuality/shyness

[BaylorPRSer]

I'd say I work up the nerve to talk to 1 in 100 attractive women i see.  Talking to attractive women at the gym, at the doctor's, etc. is kind of my only option as I don't have any sexually available women in my social circle.  Even when I talk to the 1 in 100, I'm still extremely nervous and have to "force" myself to do it.  I have a lot of self-knowledge (or at least I think I do) as to where this shyness/anxiety comes from.  However, now that I know, the road ahead doesn't seem any clearer.  I still feel really anxious and spending a massive amount of time processing the source of the anxiety hasn't really helped eliminate that feeling.  Is the only solution to barrel through this wretched feeling over and over until it's not there?  This is what I'm starting to think, but I feel very overwhelmed by the idea of it.  

 

I think the source of it is childhood.  The Christian views I was fed on sex really messed with my head and left me with a lot of guilt.  Also, I was very anti-social due to ADD medication which had me feeling zombified at school and not wanting to talk to anyone, least of all attractive girls.  I also had side effects including highly embarrassing facial spasms that resulted from the meds.  Needless to say, I didn't feel highly confident and didn't talk to girls.  I had one date in high school, didn't lose my virginity until I was 20 and that was also my first girlfriend.  I've had one other girlfriend who dumped me after a week and still have only slept with one girl.  I'm 25 now.  

 

The ingredients seem to be there for such an anxiety, but now that I've been off of the meds and my facial spasms have subsided, I'm no longer religious and I'm not a virgin, so why can't I shake the anxiety?  I feel exceedingly confused about this issue and any help would be appreciated.  

[TheRobin]

I don't know, but could it be that if you were completely honest with those women you want to talk to, the main reason is cause you want to have sex with them? (Not that that's a bad thing, but it makes for quite an akward conversation "Hi, I'd really like to bone you, up for a coffee?". But ofc, since you probably won't be so direct, the only other option I can think of is some sort of not-really-honest small talk or whatnot, which might be among the reasons why it causes so much anxiety)Of course this might have nothing to do with your actual situation at all, it's just what I remember being at least a part of my anxiety of trying to talk to attractive women (or well, women I found hot).

[BaylorPRSer]

The whole small talk thing actually does cause feelings of anxiety.  I'll start to overthink things and feel "fake" for making small talk.  Or I'll start to overthink to the point of talking myself out of saying something to a stranger because what I was going to say wasn't "genuine", "spontaneous" or "in the moment" enough.  

[PatrickC]

The whole small talk thing actually does cause feelings of anxiety.  I'll start to overthink things and feel "fake" for making small talk.  Or I'll start to overthink to the point of talking myself out of saying something to a stranger because what I was going to say wasn't "genuine", "spontaneous" or "in the moment" enough.  

 

Notice how you didn't answer Robins question.

[BaylorPRSer]

Notice how you didn't answer Robins question.

Well, I'm still trying to figure out if the first part is relevant to my situation.  Yes, I want to sleep with attractive women that I talk to, but I don't come right out of the gates with anything sexual, or anything that involves complimenting her looks really.  I've typically been leaning on the more innocuous side when starting a conversation with an attractive stranger.  Does that clear up my situation at all?

[PatrickC]

Well, I'm still trying to figure out if the first part is relevant to my situation.  Yes, I want to sleep with attractive women that I talk to, but I don't come right out of the gates with anything sexual, or anything that involves complimenting her looks really.  I've typically been leaning on the more innocuous side when starting a conversation with an attractive stranger.  Does that clear up my situation at all?

 

Well the thing I notice about this, which is what Robin was getting at too. Was if you just talk to random women 1/100 based on looks as your initial starter. Then the first thoughts are gonna be, 'fine arse', 'nice boobies' or 'great lips'. This is certainly going to cause your conversation to lack lustre if you attempt to make other chat with all that at the forefront of your mind. Particularly if you don't chat to many women as a norm.

 

You have my sympathies with the religious upbringing and all that repression around sex. That can screw with your head for some years. But I can tell you that if you choose women for sex and they agree, they will eventually make your life a misery. Start asking yourself honestly what values you have for yourself firstly and whether you would engage with these women if they were men.

 

I say this, because as sure as eggs any lady that takes you up will mirror the same values (good or bad) back at you.

[BaylorPRSer]

Well if I had women in my social circle whom I could select based on values I am already aware, then this advice would be relevant.  Since, I don't have that as an option, I sort of have to start the interaction not knowing anything about the woman's values.  I'd love to be at a place where I could filter out women who don't share my values.  I'm not there yet.  This is why I'm mainly interested in tackling the anxiety, so I can get to the place where I'm actually learning these things about the girl to see if we're compatible.  If I have debilitating shyness/anxiety, my ability to get the ball rolling and get that information will be greatly reduced.  I do want meaningful relationships with ethical women, not just sex.  Your input was very helpful, but I don't see any way around the looks thing.  If I can't see myself getting it up for the girl, then why waste her time or mine?  I'm not the pickiest guy in the world.  I don't need a 9 or a 10.  I just need to feel some sort of physical response in myself.  

[PatrickC]

Ok, I guess since you wrote a lot about sex and looks that I was forgiven for thinking this was the mainstay of your anxiety. Nothing wrong with wanting to be physically attracted to a woman of course.

 

When you feel fake making small talk or let's say making your introduction, I'm trying to understand what that means. Fake about what exactly. What do you imagine she will find out about you if you didn't fold up and just said it?

 

If this is history as you're suggesting it might be, then there would be a pattern you could refer too in your past. I'm not sure it is entirely, since approaching strangers, particularly women is anxiety provoking at the best of times. Still, I could be wrong here, what are your thoughts?

[BaylorPRSer]

When I am considering talking to an attractive woman for the first time, my brain starts going through the database of excuses.  "She won't like me", "she'll think I'm corny or unoriginal", "my job at the moment isn't good enough", "I don't make enough money", "she's too hot", "she probably has a boyfriend anyway", "I'm just not feelin it", "this just isn't your style, you're more of a loner".  One time I was going to talk to a girl in my apartment complex and my heart started pounding and my brain started racing.  That time I actually couldn't think of any excuses, but I felt so incredibly nervous I just skipped it.  It's an anxiety I've barreled through b4 and I rarely regret doing so, but if there's a way to leave it in the past, I'd like to.  Maybe you're right, it's just a normal anxiety, but I still think I have it to an extreme.  

[tjt]

It sounds like you are looking at this anxiety as a flaw in yourself, but could it possibly be telling you something... like maybe it is legitimate and trying to protect you from something. I understand that you believe it is to an extreme, and therefore a dysfunction... But I find that my own anxieties in life do not mislead me, they are usually legitimate. Whether my anxiety is telling me "danger lies straight ahead, proceed with caution" or, "this reminds me of something from our past that we haven't dealt with... we gotta deal with it."

 

Although you say that you think you've identified the root causes of your anxiety, it would seem to me that you haven't because you are trying to push the anxiety out of the way rather than fully understand it. You are not able to speak in specifics with great detail. What I read was "oh it's my religious upbringing" but that's not specific enough to really help yourself through this. Obviously, I don't know you and I'm not an expert, but I'm just sharing what popped out at me as I read your post. You gotta be more empathetic toward your anxiety rather than get angry at it.

 

And I wanted to share one more thing, why are you wanting to approach women under such circumstances? I personally do not want to be bothered while I'm at the doctor or at the gym (I don't go to the gym, I'm just trying to make a point), and I especially don't want to be approached by my neighbors who are sexually interested in me. Of course I can't speak for all women, but that's how I usually feel... a bit annoyed (I'm a moderate introvert and also have a boyfriend, probably useful info). I'm sorry, I'm not trying to worsen your anxiety, but it's not like you would just approach a man, interrupt him and make small talk while he is at the doctor's office.

 

(EDIT - I understand that these can become great ways to meet women, approaching them at the grocery store or whatever... but that seems more advanced to me because it's a bit risky and your odds can be kind of low. I'm just saying it might be a discouraging way to start, but something you could work your way up to.)

 

Why not become part of more social interactions where other people's objectives are to meet new people? That way you're not catching anybody off guard and you have less reason to worry about a bad reaction from someone. Sorry, I can't think of any examples right now, but I hope I've given you some ideas. You've created a false dichotomy--that you either have to go after someone in your social group, or someone randomly running errands. Don't get me wrong, if you see "the one" while you're grabbing a coffee, you darn well better talk to her... but it doesn't sound to me like you are talking about seeing "the one," just pretty faces with nice bodies.

 

Feedback is very welcome, I fear that this post could potentially be taken the wrong way... so if you need any clarification please ask.

 

Oh, and I thought of an example... online dating... have you tried that?

[PatrickC]

Certainly sounds like you possibly could have self esteem issues. How many 25 year olds have a job and an apartment these days. Not too many I figure. So I think you are doing pretty well for 25 so far. But perhaps it's something else.

 

Seems like many of these anxieties are self prescribed to detonate any potential connection you may or may not have with a woman. I mean take the one, 'she's too hot'. Why should that matter? I mean maybe it should, if she is dressed in such a manner with makeup to get your lizard brain attention. But I get that some women can still be hot without all that. So why does it still matter?

 

I guess what I'm trying to get at here, is the level of responsibility for being 'interesting' you seem to place wholly with yourself. If after you started talking with her you discovered she had no boundaries and started flirting with you in a salacious manner. Then I imagine your estimation of her would take a dive. That would be a good thing of course, because it would highlight your own level of 'self care' and her lack of it. Her being 'hot' in this instance then becomes irrelevant, because she has fundamentally detonated the interaction for you. If you're conscious of the red flags you might meet that won't be in line with your values, then worrying about her 'hotness' will diminish considerably. Because you will be ascribing equal responsibility in the outcome.

 

Perhaps this all sounds too prescriptive, but I think clearly understanding your own values and principles when engaging in potential romance will help reduce that anxiety immensely. Because the outcome is no longer entirely your own, but hers as well. Hope that makes sense. 

 

EDIT - I agree with tjt here, the cold calling approach is perhaps the hardest approach that a man can do. I would start looking for activities and events you can get involved in. That way you at least get to vet the women you meet before approaching them. You'll also have more interesting/relevant stuff to talk about.

[BaylorPRSer]

 

It sounds like you are looking at this anxiety as a flaw in yourself, but could it possibly be telling you something... like maybe it is legitimate and trying to protect you from something. I understand that you believe it is to an extreme, and therefore a dysfunction... But I find that my own anxieties in life do not mislead me, they are usually legitimate. Whether my anxiety is telling me "danger lies straight ahead, proceed with caution" or, "this reminds me of something from our past that we haven't dealt with... we gotta deal with it."

 

Although you say that you think you've identified the root causes of your anxiety, it would seem to me that you haven't because you are trying to push the anxiety out of the way rather than fully understand it. You are not able to speak in specifics with great detail. What I read was "oh it's my religious upbringing" but that's not specific enough to really help yourself through this. Obviously, I don't know you and I'm not an expert, but I'm just sharing what popped out at me as I read your post. You gotta be more empathetic toward your anxiety rather than get angry at it.

 

And I wanted to share one more thing, why are you wanting to approach women under such circumstances? I personally do not want to be bothered while I'm at the doctor or at the gym (I don't go to the gym, I'm just trying to make a point), and I especially don't want to be approached by my neighbors who are sexually interested in me. Of course I can't speak for all women, but that's how I usually feel... a bit annoyed (I'm a moderate introvert and also have a boyfriend, probably useful info). I'm sorry, I'm not trying to worsen your anxiety, but it's not like you would just approach a man, interrupt him and make small talk while he is at the doctor's office.

 

(EDIT - I understand that these can become great ways to meet women, approaching them at the grocery store or whatever... but that seems more advanced to me because it's a bit risky and your odds can be kind of low. I'm just saying it might be a discouraging way to start, but something you could work your way up to.)

 

Why not become part of more social interactions where other people's objectives are to meet new people? That way you're not catching anybody off guard and you have less reason to worry about a bad reaction from someone. Sorry, I can't think of any examples right now, but I hope I've given you some ideas. You've created a false dichotomy--that you either have to go after someone in your social group, or someone randomly running errands. Don't get me wrong, if you see "the one" while you're grabbing a coffee, you darn well better talk to her... but it doesn't sound to me like you are talking about seeing "the one," just pretty faces with nice bodies.

 

Feedback is very welcome, I fear that this post could potentially be taken the wrong way... so if you need any clarification please ask.

 

Oh, and I thought of an example... online dating... have you tried that?

 

 

I've tried online dating.  Haven't had any luck.  One date has resulted and I didn't feel any reason to pursue that one further.  It's possible my profile needs work and that's why I haven't done well with it?  My approach to online dating has been have a fun care free vibe in the profile and try to keep it light when talking to the girls.  I can get chats going, but it's hard to get them out.  

 

I guess I will look for more social things to do.  I do go to bars occasionally, which are places where people are expecting to socialize so I'll start focusing on chatting more there.

 

I would like to add that I think the years of embarrassment and loneliness when I had the facial spasms probably caused more anxiety than the religion.  I was so withdrawn and internalized that way of living, that it's hard for being social to feel natural for me.  

 

Another source of anxiety is sex itself.  With my girlfriend several years ago, I would repeatedly be unable to maintain an erection during sex.  I felt extremely bad for her and felt as though I was lowering her self-esteem.  

 

 

Certainly sounds like you possibly could have self esteem issues. How many 25 year olds have a job and an apartment these days. Not too many I figure. So I think you are doing pretty well for 25 so far. But perhaps it's something else.

 

Seems like many of these anxieties are self prescribed to detonate any potential connection you may or may not have with a woman. I mean take the one, 'she's too hot'. Why should that matter? I mean maybe it should, if she is dressed in such a manner with makeup to get your lizard brain attention. But I get that some women can still be hot without all that. So why does it still matter?

 

I guess what I'm trying to get at here, is the level of responsibility for being 'interesting' you seem to place wholly with yourself. If after you started talking with her you discovered she had no boundaries and started flirting with you in a salacious manner. Then I imagine your estimation of her would take a dive. That would be a good thing of course, because it would highlight your own level of 'self care' and her lack of it. Her being 'hot' in this instance then becomes irrelevant, because she has fundamentally detonated the interaction for you. If you're conscious of the red flags you might meet that won't be in line with your values, then worrying about her 'hotness' will diminish considerably. Because you will be ascribing equal responsibility in the outcome.

 

Perhaps this all sounds too prescriptive, but I think clearly understanding your own values and principles when engaging in potential romance will help reduce that anxiety immensely. Because the outcome is no longer entirely your own, but hers as well. Hope that makes sense. 

 

EDIT - I agree with tjt here, the cold calling approach is perhaps the hardest approach that a man can do. I would start looking for activities and events you can get involved in. That way you at least get to vet the women you meet before approaching them. You'll also have more interesting/relevant stuff to talk about.

 

 

I hate my job, am not suited for it, and frankly suck at it.  All of this for 40 hours a week is killing me and ramping up the anxiety.  I'm looking for other jobs, but this one has done a lot of damage to me already as I've been there for 1.5 years now.  

 

You're right about the anxieties being self-prescribed though.  I keep etting inside my head for no reason.  I'll work on reframing my mindset to think "I wonder what sort of things in life are important to this girl" when I start interactions.  

[tjt]

 

 

I've tried online dating.  Haven't had any luck.  One date has resulted and I didn't feel any reason to pursue that one further.  It's possible my profile needs work and that's why I haven't done well with it?  My approach to online dating has been have a fun care free vibe in the profile and try to keep it light when talking to the girls.  I can get chats going, but it's hard to get them out.  

 

I guess I will look for more social things to do.  I do go to bars occasionally, which are places where people are expecting to socialize so I'll start focusing on chatting more there.

 

I would like to add that I think the years of embarrassment and loneliness when I had the facial spasms probably caused more anxiety than the religion.  I was so withdrawn and internalized that way of living, that it's hard for being social to feel natural for me.  

 

In my first post, I meant to say how sorry I am that you had to experience this at such a delicate stage in your life. Puberty, especially for boys, is such an unstable and trying time if they don't have great support from family and friends. Your hormones are running wild, then to introduce an ADD medication to that while your body is trying to balance itself out. I'm so sorry for that.

 

Did you have much say in being prescribed the medication, or did someone else (like parents or teachers) push you into it? If someone else influenced you, how does that make you feel? You shouldn't bare the burden of the side effects of the drug as a personal problem, if it was forced onto you and effected you in such a negative way I believe you have the right to blame your parents/teachers and be really angry about it. If you think it was your choice, you might want to question that a bit more (like was it really your choice to trade an inability to focus in for facial spasms... probably not, right?).

 

Another source of anxiety is sex itself.  With my girlfriend several years ago, I would repeatedly be unable to maintain an erection during sex.  I felt extremely bad for her and felt as though I was lowering her self-esteem.  

 

Which I'm sure made the anxiety worse, it's like a vicious cycle. I don't know much about ADD medication, but is this a side effect of it? From what I understand, SSRIs tend to damage libido, so are ADD meds the same? 

 

And I just wanted to say that I appreciate your candidness, so thank you for sharing all of this with us.

[PatrickC]

I hate my job, am not suited for it, and frankly suck at it.  All of this for 40 hours a week is killing me and ramping up the anxiety.  I'm looking for other jobs, but this one has done a lot of damage to me already as I've been there for 1.5 years now.  

 

You're right about the anxieties being self-prescribed though.  I keep etting inside my head for no reason.  I'll work on reframing my mindset to think "I wonder what sort of things in life are important to this girl" when I start interactions.  

 

Then my honest opinion, you don't sound at all ready for a relationship with a woman. Everything you seem to be doing is setting you up for failure each time. You can't simply re-frame your mindset brutishly. It requires some gentle understanding of yourself and a firm grasp of your values. My best advice would be to work on yourself and introspect more. Unless you're doing it already, therapy too.

 

I echo tjt's thoughts around your history with medication and not least the religion too. They have left craters in your life that probably still need careful repair. Go easy on yourself in the meantime. And if that's not enough, then grab Stefan for a chat about it. All the very best man.

[tjt]

Then my honest opinion, you don't sound at all ready for a relationship with a woman. Everything you seem to be doing is setting you up for failure each time. You can't simply re-frame your mindset brutishly. It requires some gentle understanding of yourself and a firm grasp of your values. My best advice would be to work on yourself and introspect more. Unless you're doing it already, therapy too.

 

I echo tjt's thoughts around your history with medication and not least the religion too. They have left craters in your life that probably still need careful repair. Go easy on yourself in the meantime. And if that's not enough, then grab Stefan for a chat about it. All the very best man.

 

I agree. Well said, Patrick.

 

Baylor, there are many authors who you could look into that might help you along the path of this introspection and self-knowledge (in addition to therapy and journaling, of course). Stefan seems to recommend Nathaniel Brandon and John Bradshaw frequently. I've read some of Bradshaw's book "On the Family" and found it very helpful. One of the most helpful books I've read is "Healing The Emotional Self" by Beverly Engel... it can really help you understand how the way you were parented still has an effect on you today, it was an eye opener for me. And I'm sure you can find more recommendations on the forum.

[BaylorPRSer]

 

 

 

I've tried online dating.  Haven't had any luck.  One date has resulted and I didn't feel any reason to pursue that one further.  It's possible my profile needs work and that's why I haven't done well with it?  My approach to online dating has been have a fun care free vibe in the profile and try to keep it light when talking to the girls.  I can get chats going, but it's hard to get them out.  

 

I guess I will look for more social things to do.  I do go to bars occasionally, which are places where people are expecting to socialize so I'll start focusing on chatting more there.

 

I would like to add that I think the years of embarrassment and loneliness when I had the facial spasms probably caused more anxiety than the religion.  I was so withdrawn and internalized that way of living, that it's hard for being social to feel natural for me.  

 

In my first post, I meant to say how sorry I am that you had to experience this at such a delicate stage in your life. Puberty, especially for boys, is such an unstable and trying time if they don't have great support from family and friends. Your hormones are running wild, then to introduce an ADD medication to that while your body is trying to balance itself out. I'm so sorry for that.

 

Did you have much say in being prescribed the medication, or did someone else (like parents or teachers) push you into it? If someone else influenced you, how does that make you feel? You shouldn't bare the burden of the side effects of the drug as a personal problem, if it was forced onto you and effected you in such a negative way I believe you have the right to blame your parents/teachers and be really angry about it. If you think it was your choice, you might want to question that a bit more (like was it really your choice to trade an inability to focus in for facial spasms... probably not, right?).

 

Another source of anxiety is sex itself.  With my girlfriend several years ago, I would repeatedly be unable to maintain an erection during sex.  I felt extremely bad for her and felt as though I was lowering her self-esteem.  

 

Which I'm sure made the anxiety worse, it's like a vicious cycle. I don't know much about ADD medication, but is this a side effect of it? From what I understand, SSRIs tend to damage libido, so are ADD meds the same? 

 

And I just wanted to say that I appreciate your candidness, so thank you for sharing all of this with us.

 

I was diagnosed with ADD and put on the meds at 7 or 8.  I'd feel very zombie-like, the class would erupt in laughter and I'd just get kind of annoyed.  My parents would always ask me how I felt when I got home and I'd note that I wasn't feeling talkative and lost my appetite.  

 

When I was 10 or 11 I had a teacher request my parents up my dose (I was actually never at a particularly high dose in comparison to some other kids).  The month that happened, the tics began.  I was immediately put back down on the original dose, but the tics did not subside.  It became my choice to take it during high school, so I was taking it on an on again off again basis.  I was in all upper level classes and would get overwhelmed easy.  I simply couldn't focus without it, so at that point I did technically CHOOSE to take it, but it wasn't on a consistent basis anymore.  Everything up until that point was not my call.  Believe me, I am extremely angry about it and have been for years.  I wasn't on ADD meds when me and my girlfriend were together.  However, the year before I met her, my roommate hung himself on my ceiling fan.  I was back home in Houston looking for a summer job when I got that call.  I had a friend who was a neuroscience major who was convinced I had OCD and not ADD and got fucked with a misdiagnosis.  He had been extolling the use of SSRIs to me and then after that happened, I figured I should try them out.  I was actually on those meds when I was with my girlfriend.  I am no longer on any prescription meds and do not know if the time I spent on them left any permanent damage to my libido.  I will acknowledge that I do smoke marijuana with varying degrees of frequency at present.  Sometimes once a day.  Sometimes once every other week.  My habits with it tend to change.  

 

 

Then my honest opinion, you don't sound at all ready for a relationship with a woman. Everything you seem to be doing is setting you up for failure each time. You can't simply re-frame your mindset brutishly. It requires some gentle understanding of yourself and a firm grasp of your values. My best advice would be to work on yourself and introspect more. Unless you're doing it already, therapy too.

 

I echo tjt's thoughts around your history with medication and not least the religion too. They have left craters in your life that probably still need careful repair. Go easy on yourself in the meantime. And if that's not enough, then grab Stefan for a chat about it. All the very best man.

I was in therapy for 6 months and quit recently.  I was not getting results.  That being said, I was bitching about my job a lot, so I guess I need to get that taken care of first and then resume therapy?  

 

What about the fact that humans need physical connection?  The lack of physical connection with a woman at present is constantly distracting me and affecting my performance at work and my ability to focus on the task of finding a different job that I'm more suited.  I don't think I specifically said I was looking for an exclusive relationship with a woman during this thread. 

 

Thanks a lot for the help peeps

[BaylorPRSer]

I've actually read how to raise your self esteem by Nathaniel Branden.  I don't think I read anything in there that helped me.  I'll start keeping a journal and maybe check out some more books to see if that helps.  I do think about the years I had the tics and my upbringing in general constantly.  I have for awhile.  I'm not sure that more introspection is the answer, but who knows, maybe I'm not introspecting correctly and I'll learn that through journaling. 

[tjt]

I was diagnosed with ADD and put on the meds at 7 or 8.  I'd feel very zombie-like, the class would erupt in laughter and I'd just get kind of annoyed.  My parents would always ask me how I felt when I got home and I'd note that I wasn't feeling talkative and lost my appetite.  

 

When I was 10 or 11 I had a teacher request my parents up my dose (I was actually never at a particularly high dose in comparison to some other kids).  The month that happened, the tics began.  I was immediately put back down on the original dose, but the tics did not subside.  It became my choice to take it during high school, so I was taking it on an on again off again basis.  I was in all upper level classes and would get overwhelmed easy.  I simply couldn't focus without it, so at that point I did technically CHOOSE to take it, but it wasn't on a consistent basis anymore.  Everything up until that point was not my call.  Believe me, I am extremely angry about it and have been for years.  I wasn't on ADD meds when me and my girlfriend were together.  However, the year before I met her, my roommate hung himself on my ceiling fan.  I was back home in Houston looking for a summer job when I got that call.  I had a friend who was a neuroscience major who was convinced I had OCD and not ADD and got fucked with a misdiagnosis.  He had been extolling the use of SSRIs to me and then after that happened, I figured I should try them out.  I was actually on those meds when I was with my girlfriend.  I am no longer on any prescription meds and do not know if the time I spent on them left any permanent damage to my libido.  I will acknowledge that I do smoke marijuana with varying degrees of frequency at present.  Sometimes once a day.  Sometimes once every other week.  My habits with it tend to change.  

 

 

No, it wasn't your choice in highschool. Unless your parents came to you and said "Son, we've made a terrible mistake putting you on those meds, and are so sorry... Now we think you should get off of them," and you responded "No, I'm going to continue." Your parents and that teacher made you believe you needed those meds, and you were still a child in highschool, therefore it was not your choice to stay on those meds.

 

Your current self medication, though, is definitely your choice. Why are you choosing to cloud your judgment in such a way and stall any kind of progress? You need a clear, rational, linear mind to start working this stuff out, yet you are preventing this.

 

 

I was in therapy for 6 months and quit recently.  I was not getting results.  That being said, I was bitching about my job a lot, so I guess I need to get that taken care of first and then resume therapy?  

 

 

Take it from me, quitting your job will not provide sustained results. I'm not saying you shouldn't do it. I just went through the same thing, quit my job (what most would have considered a dream job) for many reasons including that it was stressing me out too much. Well, I'm still dealing with stress for many other reasons (many that were unexpected) and I realized I was simply projecting my internal dysfunction onto my job. I certainly don't regret it, but it wasn't a magic fix for me like I was hoping. I think it did help a little though.

 

 

What about the fact that humans need physical connection?  The lack of physical connection with a woman at present is constantly distracting me and affecting my performance at work and my ability to focus on the task of finding a different job that I'm more suited.  I don't think I specifically said I was looking for an exclusive relationship with a woman during this thread.

 

Look, even just wanting to hook up with someone requires some form of a relationship, and that's the truth. You can keep making this about your inability to get some, that's your choice. But as we've tried to point out, that is probably not the root cause of your current turmoil. It's nice to believe that there is one easy fix to all of this, but there isn't. Say you do end up scoring with a woman, then what?

 

 

 

Thanks a lot for the help peeps

 

Help, what help? Maybe I've gotten the wrong impression (and please correct me if I'm way off), but it doesn't seem like you've gained much from this thread. Kudos to you for starting it, reaching out for help and being honest, but you seem like you are not receptive to much of what we've said. I would suggest reading through the thread again and see if any lights turn on. Otherwise, you may want to consider calling into the show, maybe Stefan can help to break whatever barrier you have going on.

 

I hope you are not offended by my bluntness, but I believe this is a space where people can turn to when no one in their lives (including themselves) will tell them the truth. That is what I want to gain from this forum, so I must contribute in the same way as well.

 

Good luck to you!

[BaylorPRSer]

No, it wasn't your choice in highschool. Unless your parents came to you and said "Son, we've made a terrible mistake putting you on those meds, and are so sorry... Now we think you should get off of them," and you responded "No, I'm going to continue." Your parents and that teacher made you believe you needed those meds, and you were still a child in highschool, therefore it was not your choice to stay on those meds.

 

Your current self medication, though, is definitely your choice. Why are you choosing to cloud your judgment in such a way and stall any kind of progress? You need a clear, rational, linear mind to start working this stuff out, yet you are preventing this.

 

 

Take it from me, quitting your job will not provide sustained results. I'm not saying you shouldn't do it. I just went through the same thing, quit my job (what most would have considered a dream job) for many reasons including that it was stressing me out too much. Well, I'm still dealing with stress for many other reasons (many that were unexpected) and I realized I was simply projecting my internal dysfunction onto my job. I certainly don't regret it, but it wasn't a magic fix for me like I was hoping. I think it did help a little though.

 

 

 

Look, even just wanting to hook up with someone requires some form of a relationship, and that's the truth. You can keep making this about your inability to get some, that's your choice. But as we've tried to point out, that is probably not the root cause of your current turmoil. It's nice to believe that there is one easy fix to all of this, but there isn't. Say you do end up scoring with a woman, then what?

 

 

 

Help, what help? Maybe I've gotten the wrong impression (and please correct me if I'm way off), but it doesn't seem like you've gained much from this thread. Kudos to you for starting it, reaching out for help and being honest, but you seem like you are not receptive to much of what we've said. I would suggest reading through the thread again and see if any lights turn on. Otherwise, you may want to consider calling into the show, maybe Stefan can help to break whatever barrier you have going on.

 

I hope you are not offended by my bluntness, but I believe this is a space where people can turn to when no one in their lives (including themselves) will tell them the truth. That is what I want to gain from this forum, so I must contribute in the same way as well.

 

Good luck to you!

I've gone for extended lengths without smoking and haven't noticed any differences.  That being said, I know it won't help with my self-knowledge and is a waste of money, so I won't resume smoking.  I've done a massive amount of introspection and have honestly given up hope that I can ever live a life without inner turmoil.  You're right, this isn't just about getting some, it's not just about the ADD meds or the religious upbringing.  It's not one thing.  I feel like I'll spend the rest of my life introspecting before I have any kind of peace with that other stuff.  With the amount of thinking I have done about my background, it seems inconceivable to me that more thinking about it will help.  I can't even imagine what it would be like to not have inner turmoil.  Of course, me not getting some isn't the cause of my inner turmoil.  That inner turmoil WILL NEVER go away.  I was thinking about a very specific anxiety and wanted to discuss that.  I'm also open to discussing more general and root anxieties.  The anxiety I initially posted about seems like something I could handle if I put my mind to it.  The other sources of inner turmoil are just stuck there.  They're too deep seeded.  No amount of meditating, therapy or self-knowledge can make them go away.  I know I'm coming off as stubborn, but I can't make peace with my roommate's death or the tics for the life of me.  I'll get a different therapist when I have some more cash and work on these things some more.  If only quitting my job were an option.  I've got bills and a car payment unfortunately.  

 

I'm open to the idea that I have barriers of which I'm unaware that are preventing you from getting through to me.  I WILL continue to introspect and try to gain more self-knowledge.  Kind of rambling here, but if I keep introspecting, I'll die alone.  

[PatrickC]

When I was 10 or 11 I had a teacher request my parents up my dose (I was actually never at a particularly high dose in comparison to some other kids).  The month that happened, the tics began.  I was immediately put back down on the original dose, but the tics did not subside.  It became my choice to take it during high school, so I was taking it on an on again off again basis.

 

I wanted to share a personal story of mine that kind of relates similarly to these varying stages in your life. I don't know if it will resonate with you or not. But it highlights some of the fantastic reasoning of children in a hostile environment.At age 11 I pronounced to the indignance of my father that I no longer wanted to go to church anymore and that I no longer believed in god either. My father roared at me, that I certainly will still be going to church. Which I did, until at 14 when family relations were at such an all time low, my parents decided I could finally have a choice in the matter. Several weeks later a school friend invited me to his church, after some weeks of attendance I became a born again christian. This lasted until I eventually left home and have never looked back since.

 

My choice to go to church again, was well calculated. My choice to become born again, was an even better calculation. These were all attempts to bring peace to the family home that actually worked. My mother was visibly delighted, as was my father. Beforehand my father had been threatening me with being put into care for truanting school. He had also began to start locking me out of the house if I was 10 minutes or more late returning home of an evening. All these things naturally terrified me. But after making the above choices I was able to restore some peace to the family household.

 

As you rightly point out in your last post, this probably wasn't anything to do with ADD. Like my story wasn't really anything to do with religion. It was probably a way you were able to cope and take control of your life in the family household. As I say, I'm truly sorry about that.

[BaylorPRSer]

Yea I relate.  I felt like I had to do all sorts of maneuvering when I was coming up.  I never felt like I was doing it for me, but simply to get my parents off of my back.

[BaylorPRSer]

Then my honest opinion, you don't sound at all ready for a relationship with a woman. Everything you seem to be doing is setting you up for failure each time. You can't simply re-frame your mindset brutishly. It requires some gentle understanding of yourself and a firm grasp of your values. My best advice would be to work on yourself and introspect more. Unless you're doing it already, therapy too.

 

I echo tjt's thoughts around your history with medication and not least the religion too. They have left craters in your life that probably still need careful repair. Go easy on yourself in the meantime. And if that's not enough, then grab Stefan for a chat about it. All the very best man.

Did a lot of introspection this weekend and I think I have a problem with attempting to "brutishly change my mindset".  This is something that's left over from how I was raised and expectations put on me by my parents.  It was like they would get mad if they told to do something a certain and then I didn't immediately start doing it that way.  

 

I agree. Well said, Patrick.

 

Baylor, there are many authors who you could look into that might help you along the path of this introspection and self-knowledge (in addition to therapy and journaling, of course). Stefan seems to recommend Nathaniel Brandon and John Bradshaw frequently. I've read some of Bradshaw's book "On the Family" and found it very helpful. One of the most helpful books I've read is "Healing The Emotional Self" by Beverly Engel... it can really help you understand how the way you were parented still has an effect on you today, it was an eye opener for me. And I'm sure you can find more recommendations on the forum.

 

Also started a journal and checked out another Nathaniel Branden book.  Just wanted to check in and let you know I've been thinking about your input.  It's taking a second to sink in.  I think my anxiety might be telling me to get my other shit handled.  I need to take things one step at a time.  I don't like my job.  Nobody wants to be with somebody who hates their job.  I'm sure there's more to my anxiety than that, but I'll work on getting to know it.  

 

Thanks a lot guys, I really mean it.