Make-up

[Brazilda]

I asked my mother today why she wears makeup, mainly to see what she would say. Her and my grandmother both said they wear it to feel good about themselves. So I proposed a scenario where they're the only people in the world and they held their position and said they would still put on the make up. I pointed that this is illogical because make up is used to make yourself more attractive and with no one to appreciate it there's no point in putting it on. At which point my grandma snaps in at my moms rescue with some bullshit about how we each have our separate opinions. 

 

About a month ago I had a similar conversation with an attractive tattooed girl who also claims that if she were the only person alive she would still get tattoos (provided of course there is some magic machine that can do the tattooing). This is also illogical I think, tattooing is painful and tedious, so with no one but herself to appreciate the art you may as well put it on a piece of paper instead of your body, right? 

 

In both conversations I was easily frustrated because I thought they were lying to avoid admitting they do things to get attention. But now I think they honestly believed what they said. I still don't buy it but I am not a girl and I don't use makeup. Why is it so hard for most women to admit their real reasons and motives? Is there anyone who can confirm what I'm saying? 

 

 

[aFireInside]

 

 

If they wanted to feel good about themselves then why don't they work on their self-knowledge ?

 

Do they take good care of their health? Do they read about health? 

 

Do they read about mental health ? 

 

 

If no then they don't want to feel good about themselves. 

 

 

Do they love knowledge , do they love to learn and advance their live's ? 

 

(Im making some assumptions)

I asked my mother today why she wears makeup, mainly to see what she would say. Her and my grandmother both said they wear it to feel good about themselves. So I proposed a scenario where they're the only people in the world and they held their position and said they would still put on the make up. I pointed that this is illogical because make up is used to make yourself more attractive and with no one to appreciate it there's no point in putting it on. At which point my grandma snaps in at my moms rescue with some bullshit about how we each have our separate opinions. 

 

About a month ago I had a similar conversation with an attractive tattooed girl who also claims that if she were the only person alive she would still get tattoos (provided of course there is some magic machine that can do the tattooing). This is also illogical I think, tattooing is painful and tedious, so with no one but herself to appreciate the art you may as well put it on a piece of paper instead of your body, right? 

 

In both conversations I was easily frustrated because I thought they were lying to avoid admitting they do things to get attention. But now I think they honestly believed what they said. I still don't buy it but I am not a girl and I don't use makeup. Why is it so hard for most women to admit their real reasons and motives? Is there anyone who can confirm what I'm saying? 

[Wuzzums]

Masturbation is also something that makes you feel good about yourself. So if what they say is true, that putting on make-up (or tattoos) is just something to make them feel good about themselves... then to some extent what they're saying is that they like jerking off in public.

[Brazilda]

I wouldn't say making love to my left hand is something that makes me feel good about myself, it just feels good. Like a cold shower on a hot day, it just feels nice. 

 

 

 

 

If they wanted to feel good about themselves then why don't they work on their self-knowledge ?

 

Do they take good care of their health? Do they read about health? 

 

Do they read about mental health ? 

 

 

If no then they don't want to feel good about themselves. 

 

 

Do they love knowledge , do they love to learn and advance their live's ? 

 

(Im making some assumptions)

This is helpful, but I don't think it's simple enough for me to use as an argument with these people. If they don't understand they don't need make up if there is no one to see it then I'm afraid pointing out their lack of a pursuit of self knowledge isn't going to help register my points. 

[aFireInside]

 I'm afraid pointing out their lack of a pursuit of self knowledge isn't going to help register my points. 

 

 

 

I agree, what I said was targeted at you so you could understanding that. 

[Ace]

It's all about social approval.  So many studies have been done which show beyond a doubt that the notion of what a beautiful woman looks like is a cultural construct.  I mean if makeup were never invented would we all just be disgusted with how girls look and then humanity would die out because we wouldn't want to have sex anymore?

 

The personal drawbacks of using makeup are immense.  I mean if you could keep track and add it all up how much time would the average woman spend over the course of her whole life - putting on make-up, taking it off, buying it, etc. etc.  it would be huge.

 

It just sounds so much more noble.  "I put makeup on to feel good about myself", instead of "men have been conditioned by our culture to find makeup attractive so I use it to conform to that notion".  I think that generally speaking women look better with a little bit of makeup than without, but I'm aware that isn't an objective fact outside of my views which are the result of the culture I grew up in and live in.  I'm sure they're not lying in saying that it makes them feel good to use makeup.  But it makes them feel good because acceptance from others makes us feel good, not because changing your appearance has some inherent positive effect on a person's feelings.

 

But of all the self-deceptions people perform to avoid acknowledging their true motivations, I think makeup is far down the list.

[PatrickC]

Yes, you hit a raw nerve with your Grandma no doubt. The dirty little secret is out because it's meant to manipulate men and they don't want to admit it.

 

It's why these days I find the women I meet that don't wear makeup to be much more likely to be someone I can potentially admire and share values with, whether romantically or just as a friend.

[Psychophant]

 

 

If they wanted to feel good about themselves then why don't they work on their self-knowledge ?

 

Do they take good care of their health? Do they read about health? 

 

Do they read about mental health ? 

 

 

If no then they don't want to feel good about themselves. 

 

 

Do they love knowledge , do they love to learn and advance their live's ? 

 

(Im making some assumptions)

 

You can live on an American diet and still feel good about yourself, even as a fatty. If eating tasty food makes you happy, yeah, they have a point.

 

I asked my mother today why she wears makeup, mainly to see what she would say. Her and my grandmother both said they wear it to feel good about themselves. So I proposed a scenario where they're the only people in the world and they held their position and said they would still put on the make up.

 

 

 

Okay, but then they wouldn't even know that makeup existed, which means they would have had to found it out themselfs which would them put into the position of pioneers and result in a prove of their point. 

 

Chicks had to rely on the tribe for ages so that makes them sensitive about its approval. It is a herd mentality, one chick does it and sucessfully attracts a mate, the followers copy it and the rest don't know the root cause of it. It makes them feel good, cuz they gain ego gratification of the approval of others.

 

I'm sure they're not lying in saying that it makes them feel good to use makeup.  But it makes them feel good because acceptance from others makes us feel good, not because changing your appearance has some inherent positive effect on a person's feelings.

 

 

 

People who don't dress for others are credible in that case, they are basically dress for the sensational feeling. I couldn't care less if someone approves of my skirt wearing but there are limits to it as long as you cannot survive on your own.

 

It is not irrational but subjective, I like the feeling and comfort, it ostensibly reduces the chance of scrotal cancer and improves sperm quality, 100% disapproval is unlikely for the sake of survival - except you live in an religious fundamentalist country, I don't do it for others, because the number of people who publicly approve of it openly is very tiny, it is the next best thing to naked down there.

[aFireInside]

You can live on an American diet and still feel good about yourself, even as a fatty. If eating tasty food makes you happy, yeah, they have a point.

 

 

 

 

You are comparing make up to something unhealthy like fast food. 

Yes i agree thank you for making that point. 

[luxfelix]

I would classify cosmetics under cultural capital; that is, capital concerned with perception projection.

 

Historically, beauty (as cosmetics can enhance via symmetry, eye-catching contrast, color, etc.) was compared directly to truth and virtue. We may know consciously that putting on a mask does not make one virtuous, but sub-consciously this changes how we perceive the person, object, or event in question. We can even project this perception upon ourselves.

 

For example, we smile when we're happy, but smiling can also help us become happy.

 

It may be disingenuous to put on a mask to influence ourselves or others, but that doesn't necessarily mean malintention, although a defensive or dishonest dispute as to why one wears the mask is counter-productive; in that case, it reminds them what they aren't, and so the smiling becomes anempathetic and emotionally toxic.

 

In other words, if one feels/wants to feel happy, a smile will reflect that internally and externally with ease (resonance); if one is concerned with the lack of happiness or the anxiety to shadow the sorrow, a smile will weigh heavy on the heart (dissonance).

[tjt]

I wear makeup about once a week, sometimes not at all during any given week. I spend about 5-10 minutes applying it. I keep a very tiny stockpile, about four items. They have subtle effects, so that you wouldn't necessarily know I'm wearing makeup (maybe that makes me more manipulative?). None of my items are intended to make me look sexually turned on (like blush or lipstick). I don't expect to be wearing makeup my whole life. The amount that I wear has steadily declined, because I don't feel the need to wear much and the business of beauty can get a little corrupt (I don't want to spend my money on something so value-less).

 

I've always enjoyed putting makeup on, since I was a little girl, maybe 5 years old. I enjoy the process, tracing the natural shapes on my face, blending different textures into my skin, playing with beautiful colors. It's kind of like working with a blank canvas that you can wash away at any time. I've always been crafty and artistic, so maybe that has something to do with it.

 

When I was working in an office, I wore makeup almost every day (again, subtle, natural and sneaky). It made me look a little more awake in the morning and a little more clean in the face. I feel that wearing makeup (to work at least) has become a social expectation; if you aren't wearing a little bit of make up to work then you risk being perceived as lazy and that you don't care about your appearance... which offends some people? It's like if you were to wear a t-shirt in a business-casual environment.

 

Now that I'm not working in an office environment, I wear makeup once a week or less usually when I'm going out for some social thing. Again, I feel that I might look like a slob to other people. So I admit, I wear makeup because it makes me look a little fresher, and I enjoy putting it on. BUT those can't be the only reasons BECAUSE some little girls love to experiment with makeup and they couldn't possibly be concerned with looking fresh!!! So maybe we need to look further back to find the origin. Are there any cultures now or any times in history where it was common for men to also wear makeup?

 

I don't think wearing makeup is evil... let it be a red flag if it really bothers you that much and be grateful that it helps you identify women you would consider sub-par. I don't have friends that wear heavy makeup, so I've already been taking it as a signal... I just didn't know it.

 

Most everyone is at least a little bit concerned with their appearance, that's why we don't wear our pajamas out every day and why we shower (occasionally, if you're like me  ). And if you are totally unconcerned with appearance, that might be a symptom of depression. So is caring about our appearance really a matter of morality or biology, I don't know?

 

Wearing makeup is similar to men who are balding wearing baseball caps; I don't feel like they are manipulating me into finding them more attractive. In my opinion, I think it's better when they don't wear a hat every day. But some days, who cares? Just a little sign of their insecurities, which many of us have. I also feel that wearing makeup could be compared to wearing deodorant... but no one is complaining that masking your true smells is manipulative to those around you (this analogy is probably specific to certain countries and might not apply to you).

 

And as far as applying makeup being a waste of time, there are plenty of other things people are doing that I would consider a waste of time, but that's their choice (playing video games would be an example). If someone believes that human beings should be super efficient and not "waste" time, I hope they realize that what's considered a waste is subjective, it's an impossible standard and I really hope that they don't have children because those children will not meet their expectations, and the children will probably be damaged some how.

 

And that's the end of my ramblings. I'm open to any and all critiques. I want you to know that I'm feeling a little vulnerable sharing all these thoughts about wearing makeup given the general consensus of the community. Thank you.

[PatrickC]

Wearing makeup is similar to men who are balding wearing baseball caps; I don't feel like they are manipulating me into finding them more attractive.

 

This might just be me of course. But of all the bald men I've known in my life. None of them have used a baseball cap to disguise it. Then again perhaps it's a cultural thing, insofar as I'm British and flat caps rather than baseball caps are perhaps more popular.

 

That said, this isn't a moral issue of course. The thing is make up is fine for women to wear. The less the better in my opinion. But seriously if it wasn't just women that wore make up and men were doing it too, then it might be reasonable to suggest men are being hypocritical in this regard. Using deodorant or washing oneself is quite different from enhancing oneself beyond basic hygiene. It isn't the same really.

 

Then again perhaps I misunderstood you tjt.

[tjt]

Ah, I misunderstood. I thought it was becoming an argument of morality.

 

Young men in the U.S. tend to be insecure about their changing hairlines (of course I'm not speaking for all men). But they cope with ball caps, and the good ones always realize it's no problem at all. But maybe they still wear a hat on days that they're feeling a little down about other things. I always feel good putting on makeup when I'm feeling down about other things and on top begin to worry I'm starting to look like my mother. Of course, that's a deeper issue 

 

Yeah, the deodorant was probably a stretch on my part. But can you imagine dating a woman, then spending the night with her after a few dates and waking up to the rankest smell you've ever smelt!? Wouldn't you feel cheated? Haha, I'm only joking!

 

How do you feel about women wearing bras and removing body hair ?

[luxfelix]

Are there any cultures now or any times in history where it was common for men to also wear makeup?

 

Does Ancient Egypt, 17th-century France, and modern televised pundits/politicians count? 

 

I think it would be helpful to also consider how not wearing cosmetics can become another means to project perception. It's more of an aesthetic decision whether to embellish (wear make-up, clothes, etc.) or economize (remove hair, odors, etc.).

 

"The symbolism behind various colors, forms/designs, and time-context will change from culture to culture." -Captain Obvious 

 

Is it a matter of morals? Well, shaving everything but the middle of your mustache to show support for a certain socialist (instead of support for a famous actor) may be offensive and/or insensitive, but the act/appearance itself is not a matter of morals (because it's not universal...?).

 

That's one of the key things that characterizes cultural capital; the value comes primarily from the projected perception and imparted meaning rather than the material/medium through which it is communicated.

[fractional slacker]

There is no logical reason to wash a modern car. The time and resources it takes will be more than any maintenance losses as far as rust or corrosion goes. Yet most everyone who owns a car washes it. Human behavior is not logical. Socical conformity is definitely not logical. It's practical and based on preferances or cultural influences.

Make up can be both pleasing to the self and used to attract the attention of others. It gives the (temporary) illusion that our flaws do not exist, or at least minimize them. You can understand why women or men prefer to tone down flaws and accentuate strengths, yes?