Second guessing my decision to go to college, which starts this Fall

[EricBaker.Linux]

When I went to counselling, my counsellor suggested I consider college. I think I would really enjoy studying for a computer science degree, but I'm starting to get more and more worried lately.

 

I am worried that I may not be able to pay back my debts, and that I will regret ever going to college.

 

I cannot be sure whether that would happen or not, and I'd like to think I can make it work. I really enjoy programming and working with computers, so I have a lot of options to do after college for sure.

 

Even if I can't become a programmer immediately, I can do networking, computer maintenance, or other jobs like that. I think the job I'd probably enjoy the most would have to be Linux system administration.

 

In addition to jobs after college, I will also be working during the summers, and while I'm in college most likely. That is the plan at least.

 

Are my worries legitimate, or am I worrying too much? I have been known to do that a lot in the past.

[hannahbanana]

Why do you think you'll regret going to college? I know you said you're worried about debts, but is there anything else?

 

I know debts can be scary, I have to face them myself. I sometimes have to remind myself that most people who go to school have to take on debt, so at least I'm not alone in it (although that doesn't make it any less ridiculous that more than half of people going to college can't actually pay for it). Working during school would definitely be a good thing to do if you're worried about money.

[EricBaker.Linux]

Why do you think you'll regret going to college? I know you said you're worried about debts, but is there anything else?

 

I know debts can be scary, I have to face them myself. I sometimes have to remind myself that most people who go to school have to take on debt, so at least I'm not alone in it (although that doesn't make it any less ridiculous that more than half of people going to college can't actually pay for it). Working during school would definitely be a good thing to do if you're worried about money.

 

I'm not really worried about anything else in a fundamental way. What I mean by that is like, okay, it might be difficult. But lots of things are difficult and I'd still want to do it if it were anyway. So that won't be effecting my decision.

 

I am perhaps worried, what if my degree becomes of no use to me? The education will be (almost) invaluable however, so I don't take this one too seriously. Although, if the converse is true, and my degree actually is useful then I definitely will have nothing to worry about since I will be able to pay my debts.

 

That is true, the debts are scary, and also many people need to take on debt to study.

All of my worries are typically vague, and my reasons for enrolling in college are pretty clear, you know? I love working with computers, and I learn things best in school. Additionally, having the degree in CS is typically required for a lot of the jobs I want.

[Wuzzums]

I'm not really worried about anything else in a fundamental way. What I mean by that is like, okay, it might be difficult. But lots of things are difficult and I'd still want to do it if it were anyway. So that won't be effecting my decision.

 

I am perhaps worried, what if my degree becomes of no use to me? The education will be (almost) invaluable however, so I don't take this one too seriously. Although, if the converse is true, and my degree actually is useful then I definitely will have nothing to worry about since I will be able to pay my debts.

 

That is true, the debts are scary, and also many people need to take on debt to study.

All of my worries are typically vague, and my reasons for enrolling in college are pretty clear, you know? I love working with computers, and I learn things best in school. Additionally, having the degree in CS is typically required for a lot of the jobs I want.

 

Can you get hired without a degree? Assuming you have all the education a college would provide, are you able to find a job in the field you desire?

 

If yes, then I strongly argue against college. Not only do you go in debt, but there's also the price of a couple of years you have to pay whilst being in college. During that time you'll be forced to learn stuff you won't ever need, and what you need is taught at a very slow pace. If you're into it, you could probably learn by yourself in one year what they would teach you in 3.

[jacbot]

I dont undestand why people need a computer science degree to do programming,.,

 

I dont know why they call it "science" either, its engineering and they should be proud to call it that.

 

Google just changed its HR policy and a college degree is not longer required!!!. 

Now regardless of the fact that Google might or might not be an evil corperaton bla di bla di bla... the point being made here is that for them to hire excellent professionals a college degree is not necessary!

 

 

Its helpfull if you want to load up on mathematics depending on what you want to do with IT. But you can get the books (i can send you a nice list to start with) and you would learn it a lot better then

IT course.

 

My 2 cts.

Google is hiring non graduates

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/google-hiring-non-graduates-2013-6

[EricBaker.Linux]

I dont undestand why people need a computer science degree to do programming,.,

 

I dont know why they call it "science" either, its engineering and they should be proud to call it that.

 

Google just changed its HR policy and a college degree is not longer required!!!. 

Now regardless of the fact that Google might or might not be an evil corperaton bla di bla di bla... the point being made here is that for them to hire excellent professionals a college degree is not necessary!

 

 

Its helpfull if you want to load up on mathematics depending on what you want to do with IT. But you can get the books (i can send you a nice list to start with) and you would learn it a lot better then

IT course.

 

My 2 cts.

 

Computer science and computer engineering are two separate courses at my university. I don't think they're the same at all lol. I'm not sure about your universities, but I'm just saying with mine they are totally different.

 

I have learned a bit of C, C++, and python, but find it difficult to really get everything all at once. The program itself, user interface, error handling, error messages, etc etc.

 

That is kind of cool that google no longer requires CS degrees. Also, go ahead and hit me up with some of those books you are talking about. I will still be going to college most likely but they could still be helpful even if I stay.

 

Can you get hired without a degree? Assuming you have all the education a college would provide, are you able to find a job in the field you desire?

 

If yes, then I strongly argue against college. Not only do you go in debt, but there's also the price of a couple of years you have to pay whilst being in college. During that time you'll be forced to learn stuff you won't ever need, and what you need is taught at a very slow pace. If you're into it, you could probably learn by yourself in one year what they would teach you in 3.

 

I could maybe get hired without a degree, but in contrast to what you said, I actually learn a lot better in school with self-study on the side. rather than all self-study. It's not so much the degree, but the education I will get with that degree.

[jacbot]

Google doesnt give a shit about your degree, and many more companies are following suit

 

After years of looking at the data, Google has found that things like college GPAs and transcripts are almost worthless in hiring. Following these revelations, the company is hiring more and more people who never even went to college.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/google-hiring-non-graduates-2013-6#ixzz37NYE1wnE

Richard Feynman "i dont believe in computer science"

 

Classic!!

 

 

If you HAVE to go to college, why dont you try chemistry?  Computers are needed in every discipline . programming skills are basic these days for any engineer, its like using MSWord. Nothing special about them.

. It's not so much the degree, but the education I will get with that degree.

 

Dont buy the salespitch,.., and dont waste your time, if you want some experience go build stuff in the real world (join a good project at github or apache.org).

It will take some time to be good at C++, and GUI (html5. js, css) ... It will take experience..., a programming exercise at your uni will not teach you this.

 

College is usefull for other things, math, biology, chemistry, hard sciences in general. But with the internet the way it is a lot of the theoretical stuff you can learn by yourself.

 

Elon Musk never went to class he studied in the library.. he is above average who can think out of the  box because his brain doesnt want to conform to mainstream thinking.

 

Anyway, whatever you do, good luck

[EricBaker.Linux]

As I've already said, I learn better in school. Sorry I am not Elon Musk.

 

But anyway, I do not think of this as an issue of whether I should go to college or not, but maybe more like an issue of me frequently second guessing my decisions.

[jacbot]

I am  not Elon Musk either but did the same way (as many others) Anyway,..., good luck Eric.

[Panoptic]

Don't compare yourself to Elon Musk. Everybody is different. Steve Jobs and Bill Gates dropped out. That most definitely says nothing about what you should do.

 

Computer Science and Computer Engineering are vastly different. Computer science is heavily concentrated on mathematical methods for solving programming issues. Computer engineering is a subset of electrical engineering and has far more to do with hardware. Computer engineering is essentially the same as electrical engineering except with different technical electives. Computer science majors don't need to take much physics or even high level math (at least where I go to school).

 

Jacbot, I think you have good input but you are being far too biased. Everybody is different and college is still very valuable even for how much its quality has declined over the years.

[Triumph]

Take on an IT job to fix random people's computers in a shopping center.  Let the pain and resentment build up inside you until you can't take anymore of their stupid shit questions and attitudes. 

 

Then fully motivated, consider going to college or becoming an entrepreneur.

[jacbot]

Don't compare yourself to Elon Musk. Everybody is different. Steve Jobs and Bill Gates dropped out. That most definitely says nothing about what you should do.

 

Computer Science and Computer Engineering are vastly different. Computer science is heavily concentrated on mathematical methods for solving programming issues. Computer engineering is a subset of electrical engineering and has far more to do with hardware. Computer engineering is essentially the same as electrical engineering except with different technical electives. Computer science majors don't need to take much physics or even high level math (at least where I go to school).

 

Jacbot, I think you have good input but you are being far too biased. Everybody is different and college is still very valuable even for how much its quality has declined over the years.

 

"Don't compare yourself to Elon Musk. Everybody is different"

 

You should read what i wrote,., Elon and I have had the same method of studying physics in college. Thats not comparing myself to him, thats explaining methodology.

He explained what he did in an interview,.., and recommended this method for people wanting to study physics and engineering.

totally agree with him on that point as i have the same experience.

 

Google states clearly  (quote) "college GPAs and transcripts are almost worthless in hiring."

 

You disagree with google HR reasearch? Google is biased? They are stating facts based on performance of employees!  Let that sink in for a moment!

 

Obviously you are still investing in your college degree so i guess you have conformation bias. College is a goal to reach an objective, the emotional stuff about status and and what  quality was 10 years ago is not relevant.

 

3-5 years college to learn programming? Why? your not even learning math or anything "difficult", its a total waste of time.

 

(your quote) "..Computer science majors don't need to take much physics or even high level math.."

 

My point, if its that easy, you dont need college for CS! and google epmployee performance records agree!

 

Feynman is correct about CS , its not a science because its applied,.,.., applied stuff is always engineering. Of course you can call it science for the status, but that doesnt reflect reality.

 

Chip design is a mix of solid state physics and EE, every phycisist knows this.

[EricBaker.Linux]

I'm feeling increasingly irritated jacbot. I've already stated three times that I learn better in school. That is not contradictory to google not needing their employees to have CS degrees. Let me make a further point that will maybe help you understand me.

If I don't go to college to learn this stuff myself, then I will probably never learn it, as I've tried to teach myself programming(which I also previously stated) and am hardly competent yet to apply at Google. Your reasoning simply assumes that since CS degrees are not needed during the hiring process, that they must have no use to people during the educational process. However I'm sure Google hires people with CS degrees anyway. Maybe some of the people who went to college also learn better in school? Have you considered that?

 

Take on an IT job to fix random people's computers in a shopping center.  Let the pain and resentment build up inside you until you can't take anymore of their stupid shit questions and attitudes. 

 

Then fully motivated, consider going to college or becoming an entrepreneur.

 

This made me laugh, thanks Triumph

Don't compare yourself to Elon Musk. Everybody is different. Steve Jobs and Bill Gates dropped out. That most definitely says nothing about what you should do.

 

Thanks Extraordinary_rendition, I feel like if I quit right now and backed out of college, that I would regret that on my death bed. Life is short and studying at college is the best way I think I can use my time here right now.

[jacbot]

I'm feeling increasingly irritated jacbot. I've already stated three times that I learn better in school.

 

Why irritated? My last reply was  was 100% directed towards poster "Extraordinary_rendition." not towards you. as you have made your point and I have wished you luck in your endevours..., please re-read

 

I'm sure Google hires people with CS degrees anyway.

Sure,..,Either way (accourding to their press release) a dgeree  not relevant to them.

 

Maybe some of the people who went to college also learn better in school? Have you considered that?

School ? doesnt that precede college? I am from EU, so for us school is not same as college.

 

I am just wondering since IT re-invents itself every 3-5 years, how will you learn the next programming language? go back to college? Just asking....

 

Again, as previously stated for your case,. if you think you need college to learn C programming/<fill in talking point>, then you should do it.

 

Much success!

[EricBaker.Linux]

I suppose I felt that way when you were relentlessly going on about the Google thing. if you want to discuss that, this isn't really the place, since that is not the topic I was discussing. My worries were about debt, not about who Google is hiring. As I've already decided I need college, thanks for the good luck wishes.

 

But PLEASE take the topic about google somewhere else. I will reiterate: My worries were about debt, not about who Google is hiring. Google's company decisions are not influencing my desire to study at college.

[jacbot]

I suppose I felt that way when you were relentlessly going on about the Google thing. if you want to discuss that, this isn't really the place, since that is not the topic I was discussing. My worries were about debt, not about who Google is hiring. As I've already decided I need college, thanks for the good luck wishes.

 

But PLEASE take the topic about google somewhere else. I will reiterate: My worries were about debt, not about who Google is hiring. Google's company decisions are not influencing my desire to study at college.

 

Relentlessy? I was reacting to (quote) ",..Can you get hired without a degree?.." and i made a  passing remark about that not being a requirement  for most companies in this field (CS), and google was kindof proof for that.  I can understand collge is a huge investment for you, so that remark might have cought your attention more then ohers.

 

Just a questions, what are tutition fees in the USA these days?

[EricBaker.Linux]

Just a questions, what are tutition fees in the USA these days?

 

Tuition fees are different for each school. At mine I think I will be paid with grants and flat rate loans leaving only 2,000 or so for regular loans. Then I can get more flat rate loans each year. So I may actually have it best compared to most other students.

[Pleiades]

Take on an IT job to fix random people's computers in a shopping center.  Let the pain and resentment build up inside you until you can't take anymore of their stupid shit questions and attitudes. 

 

Then fully motivated, consider going to college or becoming an entrepreneur.

 

Hahaha. This is funny, but it's not really valid. A lot of computer scientists do way more interesting jobs than this. IT jobs like this tend to go to less driven IT people. Still really good, just not as driven for these.

 

I suppose I felt that way when you were relentlessly going on about the Google thing. if you want to discuss that, this isn't really the place, since that is not the topic I was discussing. My worries were about debt, not about who Google is hiring. As I've already decided I need college, thanks for the good luck wishes.

 

But PLEASE take the topic about google somewhere else. I will reiterate: My worries were about debt, not about who Google is hiring. Google's company decisions are not influencing my desire to study at college.

 

Like I said, Eric. You know yourself. You know that you do well in an educational area, and from our talks you are creative and like puzzles. As for debt, there are ways to try and mitigate that debt. For example working as a paid intern in the summer. Or even doing your studies part time.

[EricBaker.Linux]

Hahaha. This is funny, but it's not really valid. A lot of computer scientists do way more interesting jobs than this. IT jobs like this tend to go to less driven IT people. Still really good, just not as driven for these.

 

 

Like I said, Eric. You know yourself. You know that you do well in an educational area, and from our talks you are creative and like puzzles. As for debt, there are ways to try and mitigate that debt. For example working as a paid intern in the summer. Or even doing your studies part time.

 

Yeah you're right. I'm going to write down all of these ideas to talk with an academic counsellor when I get on campus.

[DaVinci]

I'll add my two cents. I think you might be able to get the kind of job you want without a college degree if you have a decent skill set to offset your lack of a degree. Even if you decide to go to college my recommendation is to learn to network from day one. Get the phones number, email, etc of everyone you meet who might help you to get a job after graduating. Getting a job is really more about who you know and not what degree or skills you have.

[EricBaker.Linux]

I'll add my two cents. I think you might be able to get the kind of job you want without a college degree if you have a decent skill set to offset your lack of a degree. Even if you decide to go to college my recommendation is to learn to network from day one. Get the phones number, email, etc of everyone you meet who might help you to get a job after graduating. Getting a job is really more about who you know and not what degree or skills you have.

 

Thanks mate, that is good advice. I will try to network with as many people as I can.

[Panoptic]

"Don't compare yourself to Elon Musk. Everybody is different"

 

You should read what i wrote,., Elon and I have had the same method of studying physics in college. Thats not comparing myself to him, thats explaining methodology.

He explained what he did in an interview,.., and recommended this method for people wanting to study physics and engineering.

totally agree with him on that point as i have the same experience.

 

Google states clearly  (quote) "college GPAs and transcripts are almost worthless in hiring."

 

You disagree with google HR reasearch? Google is biased? They are stating facts based on performance of employees!  Let that sink in for a moment!

 

Obviously you are still investing in your college degree so i guess you have conformation bias. College is a goal to reach an objective, the emotional stuff about status and and what  quality was 10 years ago is not relevant.

 

3-5 years college to learn programming? Why? your not even learning math or anything "difficult", its a total waste of time.

 

(your quote) "..Computer science majors don't need to take much physics or even high level math.."

 

My point, if its that easy, you dont need college for CS! and google epmployee performance records agree!

 

Feynman is correct about CS , its not a science because its applied,.,.., applied stuff is always engineering. Of course you can call it science for the status, but that doesnt reflect reality.

 

Chip design is a mix of solid state physics and EE, every phycisist knows this.

 

When I said don't compare yourself, I was talking to OP.

 

As for the Google GPA and transcript info, I said nothing about that. I didn't mention the word "GPA" in my post. My GPA is terrible, and I am working an internship right now. Of course, I wouldn't have gotten the job if I wasn't in college, and the degree I'm aiming for is still required for the jobs I want to work.

 

When I was referring to CS, I didn't say it should be called a science. I was just explaining what the degree consists of compared to Computer Engineering. I would also argue that CS is not really engineering. Anything "applied" is not automatically engineering. Then you could call a technician an engineer.

 

You say I have conformation bias because I'm going to college. How do you know that? Couldn't I just as easily say you have bias because you're not in college? As a matter of fact, I've almost dropped out 2 or 3 times over the past few years because I didn't think I was getting anywhere. Then I realized it was just my bad attitude holding me back.

 

Anyway, Eric.Linux, if I were you I would research as many opportunities as possible. You could go to community college first and save boatloads of money, unless you've managed to obtain scholarships. Also, you don't have to rush. Some people take a break for a semester of two to travel or to figure things out for themselves. Just make sure you're ready before you go and jump in (if you decide to do it). I had such a bad attitude about it for my first three years and lost so many opportunities. You will get out as much as you put into it, so put in as much as you can (i.e. take every opportunity you can). All I put in was going to class and doing enough work to get B's. I didn't do anything in the realm of clubs or networking, and so I got little out of it. Now I'm changing that. You can keep jacbot's position in mind. I think he's somewhat right about the value of a CS degree, but a lot of jobs require it and there's no way around that. Its much better to open your horizons IMO by getting the degree instead of aiming for companies that hire people without degrees. Besides, if you want to get hired at a place that hires without degrees, you still have to KNOW what they want you to know, and learning that in your free time may or may not be something you're good at.

[EricBaker.Linux]

Anyway, Eric.Linux, if I were you I would research as many opportunities as possible. You could go to community college first and save boatloads of money, unless you've managed to obtain scholarships. Also, you don't have to rush. Some people take a break for a semester of two to travel or to figure things out for themselves. Just make sure you're ready before you go and jump in (if you decide to do it). I had such a bad attitude about it for my first three years and lost so many opportunities. You will get out as much as you put into it, so put in as much as you can (i.e. take every opportunity you can). All I put in was going to class and doing enough work to get B's. I didn't do anything in the realm of clubs or networking, and so I got little out of it. Now I'm changing that. You can keep jacbot's position in mind. I think he's somewhat right about the value of a CS degree, but a lot of jobs require it and there's no way around that. Its much better to open your horizons IMO by getting the degree instead of aiming for companies that hire people without degrees. Besides, if you want to get hired at a place that hires without degrees, you still have to KNOW what they want you to know, and learning that in your free time may or may not be something you're good at.

 I am thinking that is the best strategy as well, to get involved. If I can get a list of contacts while I'm in college I will. I'll also fill out my resume more and look for clubs, internships, etc. This can all work out if I make it work out.

[jacbot]

@Extraordinary_rendition  "..Couldn't I just as easily say you have bias because you're not in college?.."

 

mmmf.. I actually wrote (in this thread) I went to uni.  but ok. also your ideas on what CS is, what CE is, what EE engineers do is a bit inaccurate, but ok , its not about that.

 

happy programming.

[AustinJames]

I learn better in school. 

 

Why do you think this is the case?  What is unique to your experience in school?

[PatrickC]

An alternative view to the debt hole they call education these days.

 

[Pelafina]

Does anyone know some good sites on learning coding?  (C++, java, python, etc.)

[EricBaker.Linux]

I wonder if this guy followed a fucking online tutorial: 

Or if he allowed his passion to guide him to seeking a proper education?

Does anyone know some good sites on learning coding?  (C++, java, python, etc.)

 

I must add that I am not saying online tutorials are necessarily bad for people who just want to learn that.

 

Just that, for me: I do not want to just follow shallow tutorials in contrast to what I see as an opportunity to engage in deep learning about it. With others, maybe they like just doing this like a hobby, that's cool. But not for me.

 

For you: I recommend codecademy. it is free and I am learning javascript. They also have python.

[cynicist]

I wonder if this guy followed a fucking online tutorial:

Or if he allowed his passion to guide him to seeking a proper education?

I must add that I am not saying online tutorials are necessarily bad for people who just want to learn that.

 

Just that, for me: I do not want to just follow shallow tutorials in contrast to what I see as an opportunity to engage in deep learning about it. With others, maybe they like just doing this like a hobby, that's cool. But not for me.

 

You may learn better in college but it's completely unnecessary for a 'proper education'. Especially for someone with passion/motivation. My brother is currently obtaining a comp sci degree and I've learned more in a few months than he was taught in years. All the information required to learn how to program is available on the internet and for free, it just takes time to learn it. 

[MOTM]

I have second guessed myself for choosing not to go to college. I'm 20 and chose not to go to college 2 years ago because it didn't make sense to get into debt just to graduate with no job. I didn't want to be one of those kids who go to college just because they were told to. Plus there wasn't anything in particular I wanted to study. I was planning on learning a trade which is in high demand right now and pays six figures. Now I'm on what looks to be a good career path but I second guess it for other reasons. 

 

I never went to a single party back in high school because I never knew about them. I was never invited. Now I have never been to a college party either. I really wish I could have the ability to go to at least one to get the experience. Also, if I went to college I would have had a girl by now. Everybody gets layed in college

 

Just something to think about. Either way you would have questioned your decision. 

[iuliuspro]

You have to analyse the cost benefit of your decision.

Are you required to have a degree to get a job in the field you want? and the second question;

Can you get that information from somewhere else?

 

If 1 is false and 2 is true my advice is don't go to college especially if you will be in debt.

If 1 is true and 2 is false my advice is to go If you really love it and you have a good chance to get a well paying job after college.

 

You can get a lot of information about IT on the internet for free or for a couple of bucks, you have Udemy.com, corsera.org etc. 

If unsure don't lock yourself into debt.

 

All the best!

[Magnetic Synthesizer]

Altough I do not have extensive experience.

1.Just leanr computer science yourself, you might be able to fetch what you need ot know and you should be able to get it outisd eof college very easily.

2. You can adapt it to yourself in autonomous leanring, you wont have to deal with bs.

3. You wont ahve a giant debt, do the math, skip the fantazy. Chose Freedom and press on in that realm.

[Somewhere]

IT is a somewhat fast-moving field and people who enter that field will in practice usually need to do a lot of self-education even if they do prefer classroom learning. Also, there are low-cost IT certification exams in all sorts of skills provided by Pearson Vue and others. You can sit many of these exams in your lunch hour and they are much more relevant to most work situations than a CS degree. I found working towards those certifications to be a good way to structure my self-education.

 

The social pressure to get a degree is so huge that most young people still need to actually go through the process to experience what a waste of life it is and just how unprepared it leaves you for the world of work, except in certain disciplines such as medicine.

 

The main positive thing that universities provide for most people, however expensively and inefficiently, is structure. Young people left to their own devices often don't know what to do, and if somebody's alternative to going to university is to spend all day playing video games then that's not so good.

I think if I were starting all over then instead of going to university I would find one or more mentors who knew the industry I wanted to enter. I sometimes see people advertising online as mentors. I mentored somebody and she moved into a software development job with a good company in a fraction of the time that it took me; it took her 2 years, with part-time study while gaining IT-relevant experience as a software tester, a role she wouldn't have thought of without mentoring.