If there was any remaining doubt that leaving your kids in daycare is a horrible idea... *graphic*

[Eric B]

9 year old boy brutally beating toddlers right next to inattentive workers in Mississippi day care center (raw footage): 

 

Same case.  Reactions and comments by mother and community.  Father of one of the little girls enters the facility looking for her abuser and strikes a different child in a case of mistaken identity: 

 

 

Seperate incident from Iran I was just treated to when logging in tonight.  Don't have to search very hard for this sort of thing:  http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=aff_1405297976

[NGardner]

This is terrible to watch. 

[Bedouin]

Oh my god.

I feel sick after watching that...

Poor, poor children.

[bitcoin]

Holy **** . That is fkn horrible. My god

[cab21]

what does this have to do with all daycare though?

 

finding one example of a bad daycare, so all daycare is bad?

 

like if one bad apple is found, all apples are bad?

 

if there is a reason daycare is bad, that some have problems like these is not a good reason, since it does not even apply.

[Eric B]

what does this have to do with all daycare though?

 

finding one example of a bad daycare, so all daycare is bad?

 

like if one bad apple is found, all apples are bad?

 

if there is a reason daycare is bad, that some have problems like these is not a good reason, since it does not even apply.

 

You are joking, right?  Possibly trolling?

 

First, there are two examples in my post (the second video from iran, you have to follow the link)  Google "daycare abuse" and you will find at least 5 million hits on the subject, more articles then you might care to read, and more videos then you might care to watch.  And these are merely the documented cases.  Imagine how much goes on that never gets recorded or reported.  Physical abuse, sexual abuse, and overall neglect run rampant in these facilities.

 

What this has to do with all daycare is the fact that with daycare, you are placing your vulnerable, young, developing child into contact with other children AND adults all coming from different histories.  Some of those histories may be healthy, others may not.  Thus, your child will observe and possibly imitate, or be subject to, any number of  unhealthy behaviors that could possibly put the child at risk in the short term, and without a doubt affect behavioral development in the long term. 

 

And all for what?  So a parent can work more and spend less time with the child?  Does the thought of other people raising and possibly harming your child during the child's most critical stages of development sound like a good idea to you?

[cab21]

You are joking, right?  Possibly trolling?

 

First, there are two examples in my post (the second video from iran, you have to follow the link)  Google "daycare abuse" and you will find at least 5 million hits on the subject, more articles then you might care to read, and more videos then you might care to watch.  And these are merely the documented cases.  Imagine how much goes on that never gets recorded or reported.  Physical abuse, sexual abuse, and overall neglect run rampant in these facilities.

 

What this has to do with all daycare is the fact that with daycare, you are placing your vulnerable, young, developing child into contact with other children AND adults all coming from different histories.  Some of those histories may be healthy, others may not.  Thus, your child will observe and possibly imitate, or be subject to, any number of  unhealthy behaviors that could possibly put the child at risk in the short term, and without a doubt affect behavioral development in the long term. 

 

And all for what?  So a parent can work more and spend less time with the child?  Does the thought of other people raising and possibly harming your child during the child's most critical stages of development sound like a good idea to you?

 

 

 

so a parent does due diligence into the quality of the daycare.

 

 

that's still like pointing at mcdonalds and saying restaurant food is bad and noone at a restuarant can cook if people are just looking for examples of poor quality.

 

what exactly are we meaning when we talk about daycare? can this be a stay at home mom taking care of friends of the family, a business well researched in childcare and develupment, or does it have to be some ghetto place like in these videos?

 

 

why not look for a place with a huge portfolio and testimonials and experience and results in child development education beyond what I have? this means looking for professionals, not just a daycare without due diligence.

 

so say these were stay at home parents with the black kid in the example, the father went in the daycare and hit a child, the wrong child, but still with the intention of striking a child,what kind of father is this man anyway? is he just violent when then , or is he the type that would be violent to his child and wife even in other situations.

[SamuelS]

I was in daycare from just a couple months old -- at first in a more 1-on-1 environment, then in a school-like setting with perhaps a 15:1 ratio of kids to adults -- and while I don't recall anything occurring there that I'd characterize as abuse, I also never really bonded with or trusted my mother and I was horrified of being left there every day, often breaking down into a screaming, sobbing mess for the first hour or so of the day...just because there isn't obvious abuse happening doesn't mean it's not damaging children.

[cab21]

I was in daycare from just a couple months old -- at first in a more 1-on-1 environment, then in a school-like setting with perhaps a 15:1 ratio of kids to adults -- and while I don't recall anything occurring there that I'd characterize as abuse, I also never really bonded with or trusted my mother and I was horrified of being left there every day, often breaking down into a screaming, sobbing mess for the first hour or so of the day...just because there isn't obvious abuse happening doesn't mean it's not damaging children.

 

 

do you feel that spending that time with your mother and/or father would have created a better bond and trust?

also, that doing so would have prevented damage to you as a child?

[SamuelS]

If that wasn't clear from what I stated, let me try again -- I felt abandoned and betrayed by my mother, this betrayal was repeated daily. The breakdown at drop-off time wasn't limited to me, nor was it limited to that center. My ex-wife worked in a daycare facility and it was all too common there as well. Your apparent lack of compassion is quite disturbing.

[cab21]

well being with one's mother does not guarantee a person is going to have a good relationship and bond with the parent.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/3357276/Mothers-who-cant-bond-with-their-babies.html

 

sometimes the abuse at home can be worse than at a daycare, and that abuse is not filmed.

 

so if I'm given stats on abuse in daycare, there are also stats of abuse in the home, by the child's own parents.

 

i did not mean for the question to have a lack of compassion as much as i am trying to figure out these issues with children and bonding with their parents.

 

my thought was "what if the child has 5 years with a stay at home mother, and still does not form a good bond with that mother?"

 

im wondering if simply having the child stay with a stay at home instead of a parent is something that will give a bond, or just a factor that might lead to a better bond, but does not  mean the child has  a better bond with the parent.

 

another factor here, is that paid maternity leave and all this stay at home mothering is usually promoted by progressiveness and socialism, and not so much part of capitalism, or at least socialists blame capitalism for a lack of babies bonding with their mothers and that huge staterun childcare centers serving mother and child are something socialists would provide more than capitalists for all children and mothers.

[SamuelS]

My first thought is that if you remove the state altogether you'll have far lower rates of single parent households, and no taxes, making the option for one parent to stay home much more realistic for most people.

 

You do bring up some interesting questions though. I've seen aritcles that go both ways on the subject, and a meta analysis in reviewed in Psychology Today found no significant difference...I think controlled studies would be unethical if even possible.

 

I'd like to think it wouldn't have to be a choice between daycare and abuse from parents, and that the lack of bondimg contributes to the abuse from parents, but I can't say I know.

 

 

http://m.psychologytoday.com/blog/insight-therapy/201010/is-non-parental-daycare-bad-children

[J. D. Stembal]

I was put into daycare from five months to nine years old. I was a latch-key public school student from age ten. From five months to eight years old, I was mostly alone with a housewife whose kids were college bound or older. Her husband, when he was home, might as well been Homer Simpson, sitting in front of the TV with a can of beer in his hand. The only aspects about this babysitter I recall are her name, that she was a smoker or hung out with smokers,  that she would take me with her shopping to many stores, and that I was required to sleep in the middle of the afternoon for an hour, possibly every day. I'm not sure if the nap time was a punishment of incentive to sleep. It felt like a punishment and I never slept but laid there watching the clock. Considering that this is not your typical daycare, and allowed for a lot of one-on-one interaction, I mostly spent my time playing with toys, running around outside, or watching TV - all largely unsupervised. From eight to nine, I had a teenager who sat for me in my parents' home. To this day, I have many lingering abandonment issues. I am an alcoholic and drug abuser, but thankfully, I don't use any more, I deal with my stress and anxiety in healthier ways. I am extremely promiscuous, and currently not in a relationship at 35.

 

This is the wonderful reality your child will endure if you send him off to daycare for his entire childhood. Please don't do this to your kids! Stefan is right on the money when he urges parents to stay home with them until they are at least four, and practice peaceful parenting. I like the oft quoted by Stefan four-to-one adult to children ratio that many hunter-gather societies are shown to have in their communities. If you aren't at least giving your child a ratio of one-to-one for most of the day when younger than five years old, how can you count on them growing up to be psychologically sound?

[cab21]

i thought socialists blamed capitalism for the daycare industry, so without such socialists, that daycare industry might grow? that the poor in capitalism have to work more, and thus need daycare more. also that those that want to be materialistic need to work more, and need daycare more.

 

i don't think there is some one size fits all for parent bonding or daycare, and that each individual would have different needs.

 

say the daycare center does not allow children who have separation anxiety, but does allow children that enjoy the daycare? that can even be another point socialists try and falsly make, that the capitalist daycare center just wants the money and does not care for the childs wellbeing, while some state funded program would resolve such ishues.

 

it seems like a healthy child would be able to be with the childs parents and be without the parents and still be healthy.

 

i don't want it to be a choice between where a child gets abused, but what if that is the case for some?

[SamuelS]

I'm not sure why you keep bringing the socialist anticapitalist rhetoric into the equation, but here's a purely free market DRO-extension idea I had to incentivize good parenting --

 

 

https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/39294-child-advocacy-businesses-cab-as-an-extention-of-the-dro-model-and-resolution-of-abortion-disputes/

[cab21]

Parents would have to work to buy a DRO plan, would they not?

 

People are already working to be able to afford all sorts of insurance types. Would a dro system let people not work so much and still have all these dro and insurance policies that people are currently working to purchase?

 

Would poor people just be having babies, and not be part of a dro that has such requirements?

 

the wonder is if we are going to have people with dro's and stay at home parents, then people without dro's where both parents work, and people with dro's where both people work, and how that will effect mobility if the people without dros where both parents work are turned into outcasts, and their children turned into outcasts?

 

It sounds like it could get expensive if each baby is valued at millions of dollars by the dro's, it's all too easy to get pregnent and there are millions of abortions a year, and millions of births a year. people could just be having their babies without being part of dro's that hold clients to better and more expensive standards. then we have some children with parents with dro's with incentives for good parenting, and other children with parents who can't afford the dro's at all , or can afford one with less standards for coverage.

[SamuelS]

To answer the question about how a DRO would solve any particular problem you can think up, put yourself in the position of the DRO -- what would you do to allay the fears of your customers with regard to that problem? I would highly recommend a (re)listen to the first three podcasts that outline and defend the DRO model.

 

The purpose of the "CAB" would be to minimize the "total cost of ownership" (for lack of a better term) of a child while maximizing the well being of that child by providing incentives to do so.Regarding the "value" of babies, that's a misinterpretation of the model I attempted to outline in that other post, and I take full responsibility for that -- I really need to re-write it at some point, for clarity and context if nothing else. The abortion part of that was my crack at extending the DRO model to address one of the most difficult interpersonal subjects which is a perennial source of political and philosophical controversy. It does this by incentivizing smart choices with regard to sexual partners, and, failing that, setting up incentives based purely on the (contractually bound, and conflicting) preferences of the individuals involved. I think it does that pretty well, but I haven't gotten any feedback (before yours) on it.I also try to be mindful of the conclusions of the study (linked below) that suggests GDP is only about 1/4 of what it would be if government regulations had stayed at 1949 levels. With that in mind, it seems perfectly reasonable that a person could enjoy the same standard of living they do now working 40hrs per week by only working 10hrs per week, or the corollary they could enjoy 4x the income at the same hours per week. I don't see why there'd be any need whatsoever for both parents to work, in a stateless society. 

http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jjseater/regulationandgrowth.pdf

[cab21]

ill do a listen of those podcasts

 

how will the CAB minimize costs and maximize the well being of a child?

 

the idea is definitely worth expanding on and flushing out.

 

i will look at the study,

a gdp of 4X is not going to mean that people get the same standard of living by only working .25x though.

thats just not how GDP works

 

getting rid of some government regulations would be good, and passing the rest on to dro's would be good, it would create a better economy. some could do 10 hour work weeks or stay at homes, but i still think others won't, at least at the start.

 

working on the cab idea is good.

 

i think mentality is a big part in getting more SAH parents and less "work and send the kids to daycare"

just reading articles about duel incomes and daycares, people will comment about how they feel they are struggling making 200k a year after taxes, so i have no idea what's going on with the choices of some people. if people making that much think that, what are people that get more from government than they give to the government thinking?