MrCapitalism Posted July 18, 2014 Posted July 18, 2014 CNN link: http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/17/world/europe/ukraine-malaysia-airlines-crash/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 A radar system saw a surface-to-air missile system turn on and track an aircraft right before the plane went down, the senior U.S. official said. A second system saw a heat signature at the time the airliner was hit, the official said. The United States is analyzing the trajectory of the missile to try to learn where the attack came from. Of course this is all speculation at the time. New information could very well determine there was another cause. However, this isn't the first time a government has used a Surface-to-Air Missile (SAM) system against a passenger aircraft. There have also been cases where the cause was believed to be a SAM hit, but the investigation revealed otherwise. Given the altitude of the target, this must have been a large weapon system. Not a shoulder mounted launcher wielded by a lone terrorist as depicted in Hollywood. Current rumors it was a "Buk" system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K37_Buk Hopefully, as with all aviation accidents, a thorough investigation will find the root causes and contributing factors.
Tree Frog Posted July 18, 2014 Posted July 18, 2014 This is the weirdest thing. At first it was the Rebels, the the Russians, then some sort of freak accident. No-one can find the indestructible "black box", and the Rebels have secured the crash zone.
omegaPRIME Posted July 18, 2014 Posted July 18, 2014 Wouldn't be the first time: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
fractional slacker Posted July 18, 2014 Posted July 18, 2014 I am sure the surviving family members will have much relief to discover their loved one wasn't killed by one of them nasty tee-or-ists. That is like totally the worst. /sarc
NameName Posted July 18, 2014 Posted July 18, 2014 I don't think I'll be flying with Malaysia Airlines anytime soon. Seems they can't keep the planes up in the air or on the radar...
NeoCortex Posted July 18, 2014 Posted July 18, 2014 I don't think I'll be flying with Malaysia Airlines anytime soon. Seems they can't keep the planes up in the air or on the radar... I was going to fly with Malaysia Airlines in about 3 weeks... I am really considering canceling. But on the other hand, what are the odds?
dale_edg Posted July 18, 2014 Posted July 18, 2014 The US were very quick to try and blame Russia with no proof, as soon is it came on the news i knew it wouldn't be long before they did. This would of been a perfect false flag for the US to commit and blame Russia to start a war or just defeat them propaganda wise. I realize thats a pretty out there Alex Jones style theory but it is possible i think. It also took Israels attack on gaza out the news.
shirgall Posted July 18, 2014 Posted July 18, 2014 Russian side seems to be more detailed: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-18/final-moments-flight-mh-17-russian-side-story
fractional slacker Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 TWA flight 800. That has never been resolved, and neither will this. A plane was shot down. Okay. How exactly are the "investigators" going to determine intentions?
MrCapitalism Posted October 13, 2015 Author Posted October 13, 2015 The Dutch government was charged with the accident investigation, and it appears they have concluded their report.The attached video goes into great detail on the findings.
Flying Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 The US were very quick to try and blame Russia with no proof, as soon is it came on the news i knew it wouldn't be long before they did. This would of been a perfect false flag for the US to commit and blame Russia to start a war or just defeat them propaganda wise. I realize thats a pretty out there Alex Jones style theory but it is possible i think. It also took Israels attack on gaza out the news. Just remember... The sanctions against Russia only happened after the airliner incident. CNN link: http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/17/world/europe/ukraine-malaysia-airlines-crash/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 Of course this is all speculation at the time. New information could very well determine there was another cause. However, this isn't the first time a government has used a Surface-to-Air Missile (SAM) system against a passenger aircraft. There have also been cases where the cause was believed to be a SAM hit, but the investigation revealed otherwise. Given the altitude of the target, this must have been a large weapon system. Not a shoulder mounted launcher wielded by a lone terrorist as depicted in Hollywood. Current rumors it was a "Buk" system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K37_Buk Hopefully, as with all aviation accidents, a thorough investigation will find the root causes and contributing factors. The Ukraine army has lots of BUKS.
utopian Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 I was reading an article earlier from MSN.com that said a Russian missile brought down MH-17 (if I remember which plane it was, correctly) I also saw an article about Navy search and rescue holding a vigil for a ship they had ceased searching for... And then I remembered a famous poster. https://jonathanturley.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/loose-lips-sink-ships1.jpg The poster was there during the WW2 era to remind soldiers and civilians not to talk about downed ships, or in this case, downed aircraft. Because the fact of the matter was, America was at war at the time, and the press did not want to panic everyone by letting the info about it get out.
Pendrokar Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 The Ukraine army has lots of BUKS. MrCapitalism did not claim they didn't. But since the rebels don't have an air force, the army had no reason to deploy BUKs so close to the front lines, which I doubt they did. Even if they feared the scenario of Russian planes invading the airspace, they still wouldn't be that close. The chances of the Ukraine army shooting it down are very slim. Conspiracy theory slim. The targeting system of the BUK would have to be reconfigured to have the same result that the report arrived at, that is take a long way around. Interesting that there was a storm during that time. I guess rebels got spooked. Such a mistake is more likely to happen to a more disorganized force, which are the rebels. I sense bias, as the Ukrainian government is western backed.
MrCapitalism Posted October 14, 2015 Author Posted October 14, 2015 I'm inclined to agree with PendrokarWikipedia shows the BUK is currently being operated by both Ukraine and Russia, and it appears that the predicted launch area covers both Ukrainian and Russia territory. However, I have a very hard time believing that professional operators from either military would neglect to use equipment to verify that the intended target is indeed enemy.
Flying Posted October 18, 2015 Posted October 18, 2015 MrCapitalism did not claim they didn't. But since the rebels don't have an air force, the army had no reason to deploy BUKs so close to the front lines, which I doubt they did. Even if they feared the scenario of Russian planes invading the airspace, they still wouldn't be that close. The chances of the Ukraine army shooting it down are very slim. Conspiracy theory slim. The targeting system of the BUK would have to be reconfigured to have the same result that the report arrived at, that is take a long way around. Interesting that there was a storm during that time. I guess rebels got spooked. Such a mistake is more likely to happen to a more disorganized force, which are the rebels. I sense bias, as the Ukrainian government is western backed. Mrcapitalism is suggesting a govt may have done it. I am suggesting that if a govt did it, it was the Ukraine govt. Not the Russian govt. Not a chance in hell. The US seems to have a lot of satellite footage of Syria and what Russia is doing there. But none of Ukraine. Probably because Russia has no troops in Ukraine and is not even helping the pro Russian rebels. Just look at what the Bill Kristol of US politics had to say: Aleksandr Gelyevich Dugin (Russian: Алекса́ндр Ге́льевич Ду́гин; born 7 January 1962) is a Russian political scientist known for his fascist views. He has close ties with the Kremlin and the Russian military. Dugin stated he was disappointed in Russian President Vladimir Putin, saying that Putin did not aid the pro-Russian insurgents in Ukraine after the Ukrainian Army's early July 2014 offensive.[36] This gets swept under the conspiracy rug so quickly but Putins plane flew across that area on the same day. You would not entertain the idea that some rogue Right Sector leaning Ukraine army elements weren't trying to assassinate Putin ? Why is this so far fetched ? Malaysian Airlines MH17 plane was travelling almost the same route as Russia’s President Vladimir Putin’s jet shortly before the crash that killed 298, Interfax news agency reports citing sources. LIVE UPDATES:Malaysia Airlines MH17 plane crash in Ukraine “I can say that Putin’s plane and the Malaysian Boeing intersected at the same point and the same echelon. That was close to Warsaw on 330-m echelon at the height of 10,100 meters. The presidential jet was there at 16:21 Moscow time and the Malaysian aircraft - 15:44 Moscow time,” a source told the news agency on condition of anonymity.
Pendrokar Posted October 20, 2015 Posted October 20, 2015 Mrcapitalism is suggesting a govt may have done it. I am suggesting that if a govt did it, it was the Ukraine govt. Not the Russian govt. Not a chance in hell. Obviosly there is a chance. There is also a third government. No not the US. Government = State = An organization which self-justifies having a monopoly on violence => Ukraine, Russia and the rebels(Donesk/Luhansk) Then again I doubt the crew of such high tech weaponry would be receive orders from rebel commanders. The US seems to have a lot of satellite footage of Syria and what Russia is doing there. But none of Ukraine. Probably because Russia has no troops in Ukraine and is not even helping the pro Russian rebels. Where have you been for the last few years? Sophisticated multiple artillery positions in rebel territory, rebels having military equipment that Ukraine did not have or store in rebel positions, captured Russian soldiers on Ukraine soil, captured Russian tactical ops operatives, photos of a Buk in rebel territory and it leaving eastward seemingly with a missing missile. No troops? Even Russia itself disagrees with that statement as they have said there are Russian soldiers, with the excuse that they are 'volunteers'. I think most of this is common knowledge, but if it all sounds new to you I can reference the sources. This gets swept under the conspiracy rug so quickly but Putins plane flew across that area on the same day. You would not entertain the idea that some rogue Right Sector leaning Ukraine army elements weren't trying to assassinate Putin ? Why is this so far fetched ? You are changing the subject. The subject is who downed MH-17, not what was the intended target. It is far fetched, because that would cause a full-on Russian invasion of Ukraine to not only secure the crash site, but force a regime change in Ukraine. In short, it would be suicide for Ukrainian government to do so.
A4E Posted October 20, 2015 Posted October 20, 2015 It is far fetched, because that would cause a full-on Russian invasion of Ukraine to not only secure the crash site, but force a regime change in Ukraine. In short, it would be suicide for Ukrainian government to do so. It could be as simple as one soldier letting his emotions take control of him. There does not have to be a top down order from a Ukrainian government to launch a missile. Also people are not always good at seeing potential consequences, even if they have a nice suit. Just because something would be stupid to do, does not mean no one did it.
Pendrokar Posted October 23, 2015 Posted October 23, 2015 True, but which side do you think is more organized to lessen such incidents from happening? But once again I sense bias. What made you arrive at the conclusion that it is more likely that Ukrainian government shot it down rather than the rebels? I know about the whole point of Ukraine govt being western backed, fascist, created crisis... That is not an argument. That is bias.
A4E Posted October 23, 2015 Posted October 23, 2015 True, but which side do you think is more organized to lessen such incidents from happening? But once again I sense bias. What made you arrive at the conclusion that it is more likely that Ukrainian government shot it down rather than the rebels? I know about the whole point of Ukraine govt being western backed, fascist, created crisis... That is not an argument. That is bias. I never had a conclusion regarding this incident. Sorry if I led you to believe I had.
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