Study finds men want nice girls, girls want bad men

[shirgall]

http://www.newsweek.com/study-finds-men-nice-women-not-other-way-around-261269?piano_d=1

 

Study Finds That Men Like Nice Women, But Not the Other Way Around

By Paula Mejia

Filed: 7/25/14 at 9:20 AM | Updated: 7/25/14 at 9:26 AM

Scientifically, nice (heterosexual) guys might actually finish last. A study published in Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin recently found that while men were attracted to nice-seeming women upon meeting them, women did not feel the same way about men. Researchers from the University of Rochester, the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign and the Interdisciplinary Center (IDC) Herzliya in Israel investigated a possible mechanism explaining why women and men differ in their sexual reactions with receptive opposite-sex strangers.

 

One hundred and twelve undergraduate students volunteered for the study at a university in central Israel. The volunteer pool was split evenly between men and women, and participants were paired randomly with an opposite-sex individual they hadn’t met before. The study examined burgeoning sexual interest and the participants’ feelings on the possibility of long-term dating with their new “partners,” and how those connected to their perceptions of a personality trait the study calls “responsiveness.”

 

In the study, responsiveness is defined as a characteristic “that may signal to potential partners that one understands, values and supports important aspects of their self-concept and is willing to invest resources in the relationship.”  A limitation of this definition, the authors state, is that the concept of “responsiveness” is ultimately elusive—it can mean different things to different people. Nevertheless, the researchers felt they could use their definition to help get at some of the different ways men and women perceive potential partners.

 

"Sexual desire thrives on rising intimacy and being responsive is one of the best ways to instill this elusive sensation over time," lead researcher Gurit Birnbaum explained in a press release. It makes sense: responsiveness is key to any relationship, whether it’s a friendship or a romantic union.

 

But it’s not as important of a factor when you first meet someone, according to the study. "Our findings show that this does not necessarily hold true in an initial encounter, because a responsive potential partner may convey opposite meanings to different people,” stated Birnbaum.

 

In the first of three studies, researchers explored whether women or men perceived a receptive opposite-sex stranger as sexually desirable and, if so, whether that “responsive” quality registered as overtly feminine or masculine. The researchers found that men who perceived possible female partners as responsive found them to be “more feminine and more attractive.” Past research suggests that physical cues of femininity stimulate sexual attraction because they suggest higher estrogen levels, better overall mate quality and solid reproductive health.

 

On the other hand, women didn’t necessarily perceive a responsive man as less masculine, but they also did not find a responsive man more attractive. What’s more, when women perceived their male partner to be responsive, they were less attracted to the man.

 

In other words, it appeared that in an initial encounter men liked nice ladies; women thought nice guys were kind of lame.

 

The second study required participants to engage with either a responsive or unresponsive person of the opposite sex, then interact with them online while detailing a current problem in their life. The goal here was to remove the potentially confounding elements of live social interaction (smiling, physical attractiveness) to see if they could isolate how much responsiveness—or niceness—played into attraction.

 

Again, the men in the study thought responsive and attentive women were more attractive as potential partners, while women found men with those same traits to be less desirable.

 

The third and final study presented in the paper sought to test specifically whether the mechanism by which “responsiveness” motivated individuals to pursue relationships was, in fact, sexual arousal. To do so, they replicated the second study, but added a specific measure of sexual attraction. They then found that when men found women to be responsive, it led to a heightened sexual arousal among men. That, in turn led to greater desire for a relationship.

While the studies shed some light on why men find responsive women more sexually desirable, Birnbaum explains that researchers are still are unsure why women are less sexually attracted to responsive strangers than men.

 

“Women may perceive a responsive stranger as less desirable for different reasons," said Birnbaum in a press release. "Women may perceive this person as inappropriately nice and manipulative (i.e., trying to obtain sexual favors) or eager to please, perhaps even as desperate, and therefore less sexually appealing. Alternatively, women may perceive a responsive man as vulnerable and less dominant.”

 

So for now, the question “what do women want?” will remain unanswered.

[jacbot]

ya know,.., sex is not really worth this kind of drama.  girls are attracted to fat wallets,...like guys are attracted to physical beauty.

 

Selfknowledge might mitigate biological drives, but not by much.

[Kevin Beal]

Haha. I love the last line

 

I do think that a lot of guys don't really ask themselves "is she good enough for me"? I know I didn't, and I get the sense that I wasn't alone in that. I'm inclined to think that guys generally are more desperate until I look at all of the crazy advice online targeted at women who are desperate for a man. None of the advice seems to be to say "hey, I think you are attractive, what do you think about grabbing a coffee sometime"? It's about tricking him in some way, or it's all about game. I'm saddened by the fact that all I need to say is "game" and people know what I mean

 

I'd love to hear a woman's take on this study!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JonnyD]

Notice that nowhere in the article does it mentioned anything about women being attracted to jerks/assholes, which a lot of men (elsewhere on the internet) are projecting onto this article. 

[shirgall]

 

I'd love to hear a woman's take on this study!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I was hoping for one, too, because the byline is a woman's name... but I'm sure we didn't get that perspective in her work.

[Alan C.]

The sad and unfortunate irony is that many women also end up finishing last. The ones who make immature and short-sighted decisions end up on singles sites when they're 40 with kids in a desparate attempt to find a guy like the ones they eschewed 20 years before.

[MMX2010]

 

I do think that a lot of guys don't really ask themselves "is she good enough for me"? I know I didn't, and I get the sense that I wasn't alone in that.

 

A man who is not in touch with his genuine emotions has no self-worth.  And a man who has no self-worth is much more likely to feel that it's his moral duty to sacrifice his needs and wants to please women/society.  (Sorry for being redundant by saying "women" first, and then "society".) 

 

Within this past month, I've made major strides in personal growth, all thanks to Stefan's podcasts.  And I know that the number-one reason these changes have happened is that I've become much more in touch with, and completely non-judgmental towards, my every single emotion. 

 

Last night I spent about six hours reading every article in this list: http://therationalmale.com/the-best-of-rational-male-year-one while also listening to these two songs on repeat:

 

To me, Buzzcut Season illustrates the "magical thinking"-based, highly-sheltered "reality" that young women inhabit.  (The lines "So we live beside the pool, where everything is good" and "Nothing's wrong when nothing's true." fill me with mildly-contemptuous bemusement.)

 

Whereas "Glory and Gore" illustrates the hard-won, philosophy-based internal security (a) that women find highly attractive, (and then, predictably-tragically try to undermine), (b) that most men find utterly frightening, impossible to attain, and threatening, and © that women try to acquire by making such men fall in love with them.  (Stefan's repeated-admonition that there's no external solution to the internal problem of insecurity is highly appropriate here.) 

 

I used to feel shame / self-attack because I'm 38, single, and living rent-free with my abusive parents.  Now I realize that those long years alone, lonely, and confused are a badge of honor.  I tell myself, "You can do this - (living alone, embodying the culturally-described/assumed image of 'loser') - again, again, and again...if that's what it comes down to."  (If my business fails, no matter how hard I tried to make it work, I can always happily and humbly move back.  If my friends desert me, no matter how hard I tried to form a serious connection, I can always happily and resignedly move back.) 

 

Women's refusal to accept that they, too, can "always move back" is precisely why they try to manipulate, trick, bully, and threaten secure men into "loving" them.  But any woman who tries to pull that on me is going to meet both the chorus: "You can try and take us.  But we're the gladiators.  Everyone a rager, but secretly they're saviors.  Glory and gore go hand in hand!  It's why we're making headlines.  You can try and take us, but victory's contagious." and the final stanza: "Words in [her] brain: secretly you love this, do you even really want to go free?  Let me in the ring; I'll show you what that big word means." of Glory and Gore. 

 

I can thoroughly understand every man's decision to either go MGTOW or learn the Crimson Arts. 

[J-William]

Alternatively, women may perceive a responsive man as vulnerable and less dominant.”

 

So what I take from this is that if you wants to find a good woman you need to do your best to show yourself to be responsive and vulnerable so that you can quickly walk on by the women who just want a bad man or a dominant asshole.

 

I think that's a good lesson to keep your heart safe and out of the shredder.

[J. D. Stembal]

I have contempt for university research studies. What is the real purpose of analyzing gender in this simplistic manner?

 

Why is it that the research regarding men is so clear, but the mystique behind the behavior of woman is somehow still in tact?

 

This is exactly the kind of fruitless research that receives government funding.

[PatrickC]

Ah, as J William perhaps suggests. The truly virtuous woman is a rare commodity and certainly one we should cherish upon meeting them.I hope I don't have to add any obvious caveats here for the trolls and white knights.

[Brentb]

80% of men are going after the same 20% of women - the 8's, 9's and 10's on the attractiveness scale.

 

The 8's, 9's and 10's are getting more attention from men than they want. They have men making offers for their company every day, The offering of "nice" is pretty easy to come by, so they don't respect it, and why should they? What good does "nice" do for them?

 

The rest of the women want a man that will treat them as if they were an 8, 9, or 10. Which means they want all that attention that the 10's eschew. A really nice guy makes a less attractive woman feel like she's more attractive.

 

So when they're doing a study, and find what a woman wants to be a mystery, it's probably largely because they're categorizing the highly attractive women in the same group as the less attractive women.

[Frosty]

Haha. I love the last line

 

I do think that a lot of guys don't really ask themselves "is she good enough for me"? I know I didn't, and I get the sense that I wasn't alone in that. I'm inclined to think that guys generally are more desperate until I look at all of the crazy advice online targeted at women who are desperate for a man. None of the advice seems to be to say "hey, I think you are attractive, what do you think about grabbing a coffee sometime"? It's about tricking him in some way, or it's all about game. I'm saddened by the fact that all I need to say is "game" and people know what I mean

 

I'd love to hear a woman's take on this study!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

It is a game and one I'm not willing to play which is partly why I'm a MGTOW.

[Bortasz]

Man want good girl, that is bad and dirty just for him. Woman want a bad boy, who is good just for her. Or even better. The bad boy they can change to good boy.  

Does anybody is surprise by this? 

[Blackfish64]

They can't speak for "women" and "men", I say.  They can speak only for themselves.  I have always held it as an individual thing.  I love assertive women.  If a woman likes me, I want her to come over and tell me.  I do the same.  

[In the belly of the beast]

Notice that nowhere in the article does it mentioned anything about women being attracted to jerks/assholes, which a lot of men (elsewhere on the internet) are projecting onto this article. 

Any woman who is genuinely attracted to jerks/assholes/"bad boys" (and acts on that attraction) obviously has significant unaddressed psychological trauma and/or is a nasty person themselves.

I wonder what the male equivalent of "woman taming a promiscuous bad boy" is?  Could it be "treating a seriously damaged/immature woman nicely will make her value me over the asshole stud with a six pack and a BMW"?

[PatrickC]

80% of men are going after the same 20% of women - the 8's, 9's and 10's on the attractiveness scale.

 

The 8's, 9's and 10's are getting more attention from men than they want. They have men making offers for their company every day, The offering of "nice" is pretty easy to come by, so they don't respect it, and why should they? What good does "nice" do for them?

 

Yes, this is really the meat and gravy of the issue facing most men. I recently was invited to a party where there was 2 - 3 very hot ladies who were literally bouncing off of around 10 -12 guys. Who were mostly ignoring the other 6 or so less hot ladies. From a philosophical perspective it was pretty embarrassing to watch, as all these hot ladies had to do was give a smile or wink and that was enough to have men come panting around them.

 

Whilst I still find attractive women alluring, I just cannot bare to have such innocuous conversations with them anymore. It's like playing the lotto when choosing attractive women. You just have no clue what ghastly future you are setting yourself up for. You might get lucky once in a blue moon, but chances are you're going to crash and burn.

 

Trouble with that party was, that even the less than hot ladies weren't that particularly interesting either. But they certainly enjoyed the brief male attention they got from me.

[Blackfish64]

All this sucking up to girls, trying to prove to them you're a "good guy" is bad for men, is bad for you.  Just be a good guy, actually be a good guy, and don't worry about it. 

 

Good guys have to do bad things sometimes.  It happens.  But it doesn't make us bad. 

 

My case in point,  there was this girl who took a shine to me years ago when I worked the hotels in Las Vegas.  She went well out of her way to bring me tea, keep me company, always smiled for me, and basically made it clear to me and everyone else that she wanted to be my girl.  I was startng to take a shine to her and reciprocate. 

 

One night, a drunk started a fuss at the cage with the girl who was working there.  I went on to the cage to see what was the matter.   It was just another guy who lost, had a few too many, and was looking for someone to take it out on.  He was hurling insults at her while she was trying to cash him out and send him on his way.  When I approached, he started in on me, instead of her.  I let him rant and rave and carry on.  But she wasn't moving fast enough for him and he threw some chips through the cage at her,  striking her in the face and chest, then he turned to me and tried to grab me by the front of my shirt and slam me into a cash machine that was standing behind me.  I instead took him by the wrist and sent him flying backward and over, onto the wooden floor, where the back of his head met wood with a big, "Whack!"  The blow stunned him.  It was good that it was a wooden floor, else he would have been going to the hospital that night in addition to getting cited for battery.  This way, with his skull still intact, I manipulated him by that same wrist, to which I held fast, flopped his dazed self onto his belly, handcuffed him, and, once sensible and safe, escorted him to security holding where  he ended up walking out after a while, with dignity, with said citation.

 

My girl saw the whole thing, from beginning to end.  She never spoke to me again.  It did not occur to her that I could ever do such a thing to another human being.  What was I supposed to do?  Let him bash my brains in?  I lost interest in her immediately upon discovering that she was not willing to try and understand the situation.  She thought I was just "being mean".  Well, I was "being mean", I admit.  Sometimes, in order to protect persons and property, you have to "be mean" when you're a man.  

 

The classic question: are men inherently good or inherently evil?  Obviously, men have the capacity for both, and for good reason.  

 

And, of course, I love my women armed and dangerous.  If I'm not there to deal with it myself, and a rapist approaches, Darling, pull pistol from holster, empty contents of pistol into rapist's thoracic and/or ocular cavities.  In other words, Darling, 'be mean, be bad.'