Is it okay to have compartmentalized relationships?

[Alice Amell]

My therapist has told me I shouldn't so easily dismiss relationships just because of disagreements. She says I'm trying to isolate myself.

 

My dad is religious and completely irrational. He buys into all democratic propaganda nonsense and will just parrot phrases and make make emotional arguments to justify it. He believes in an afterlife, that he experiences god everyday and that religious claims can't be applied to the scientific method. He even went so far as to say "children choose their parents" which I found particularly disturbing.

 

That said, he is otherwise very calm and non-violent. He is nice. I was never hit as a child. I was only given time-outs. Recently we were talking about the stock market and he started teaching me some things. It's the first time in probably weeks if not a couple months that I've been really excited about something. I was interested and engaged and I felt like we were bonding. I'm thinking maybe my therapist is right... that even though we disagree in some areas we can still have a good relationship in other areas. It's still a bit troublesome, even more so with my sister who's a complete feminist/socialist and yet still offers emotional support.

 

I appreciate any advice or experience someone has with this type of issue. Thank you for taking the time to read my post.

 

[jacbot]

Well,.., i will take your story about not being spanked and treated well at face value..

 

irrational behavior,..., this is always a result of dysfunction,..,

 

why are you speaking to a therapist?

 

It seems on your side you have a need for emotional bonding with your family members,  emotional bonding with severely irrational people is extreemly harmfull.

[MMX2010]

My therapist has told me I shouldn't so easily dismiss relationships just because of disagreements. She says I'm trying to isolate myself.

 

 

All of what I'm about to say stems from my understanding of Stefan's book, Real Time Relationships. 

 

First of all, saying "you're dismissing relationships just because of disagreements" and "you're trying to isolate yourself" are judgments about your character, moral fiber, and intelligence.  They're also, more importantly, attempts to control your feelings. 

 

Secondly, I would say that the most honest, non-judgmental, and non-coercive description of your situation is as follows: (1) When your father discusses religion, government, the afterlife, and the degree to which children choose their parents, you feel repelled by him.  But when he discusses the stock market, you feel drawn to him.  (2) Similarly, when your sister discusses feminism and socialism you feel repelled by her.  But when she offers emotional support, you feel drawn to her. 

 

If the second part is 100% accurate, then the answer to your question becomes obvious: "Yes, it's 'okay' to have compartmentalized relationships, because everything people say while relating to us automatically produces a varying degree of attraction/repulsion.  Moreover, to ask whether this is 'okay' definitely means that you're frightfully trying to use moralistic judgments to control what cannot be controlled: your instantaneous emotional reactions to what they're saying." (Please don't take my use of "frightfully" as an insult.  Pretty much everyone, including myself, was trained from a very early age to use moralistic judgments to control our feelings.  I've only been satisfactorily aware of this for two weeks, so my decades-long inability to grasp this concept is what's ultimately frightening.) 

[Slavik]

Very interesting question.  Let me see if I understand it correctly in general terms.  Is it ok to have a relationship with a person where a certain percentage of time you have negative interactions, and a certain percentage is positive interactions.  My question to you would be, how do you feel about it in general?  Looking at the relationship as a whole (positive plus non negotiable non resolved negatives).  I dont think you can follow someones prescriptions, that would be to allow yourself to give up control.  Think of how you feel being around people that you have described, are you happy to see them?  Do you dread talking to them having to avoid mines?  Does the fact that you can not resolve issues with them, how does that make you feel?  The choice is yours of course.  It can be a very difficult choice.  So for you personally is it ok to have A relationship, sure, can you have a full relationship, a deep one?

[Stephen C]

Does isolation appeal to you?

 

My therapist has told me I shouldn't so easily dismiss relationships just because of disagreements. She says I'm trying to isolate myself.

It sounds like this therapist is talking about her/himself. Personally, I might check to see if she/he knows that or not. If the therapist cannot see how this is the case I would look for a therapist that can provide me with therapy. 

[Alice Amell]

Thank you to everyone who responded, I really appreciate it.

Well,.., i will take your story about not being spanked and treated well at face value..

 

irrational behavior,..., this is always a result of dysfunction,..,

 

why are you speaking to a therapist?

 

It seems on your side you have a need for emotional bonding with your family members,  emotional bonding with severely irrational people is extreemly harmfull.

Yes, I believe you're correct. My parents have experienced some dysfunction. I know my dad was hit, and my mom had been depressed for many years until a couple years after my birth. I don't feel very emotionally connected to them and don't feel comfortable opening up to them about things. My moms always avoided conflict, and would leave the room if my dad and I argued over minimum wage or something like that. Maybe the whole "don't talk about politics, religion, and sex" is the right approach, at least for some relationships. I do have a close friend I can talk to about anything.

The reason I'm speaking to a therapist is...well there are a lot of reasons. Included are: I'm in college so it's free (or rather, paid for in tuition). I feel a bit unmotivated and am struggling with relationships like with my parents

 

All of what I'm about to say stems from my understanding of Stefan's book, Real Time Relationships. 

 

First of all, saying "you're dismissing relationships just because of disagreements" and "you're trying to isolate yourself" are judgments about your character, moral fiber, and intelligence.  They're also, more importantly, attempts to control your feelings. 

 

Secondly, I would say that the most honest, non-judgmental, and non-coercive description of your situation is as follows: (1) When your father discusses religion, government, the afterlife, and the degree to which children choose their parents, you feel repelled by him.  But when he discusses the stock market, you feel drawn to him.  (2) Similarly, when your sister discusses feminism and socialism you feel repelled by her.  But when she offers emotional support, you feel drawn to her. 

 

If the second part is 100% accurate, then the answer to your question becomes obvious: "Yes, it's 'okay' to have compartmentalized relationships, because everything people say while relating to us automatically produces a varying degree of attraction/repulsion.  Moreover, to ask whether this is 'okay' definitely means that you're frightfully trying to use moralistic judgments to control what cannot be controlled: your instantaneous emotional reactions to what they're saying." (Please don't take my use of "frightfully" as an insult.  Pretty much everyone, including myself, was trained from a very early age to use moralistic judgments to control our feelings.  I've only been satisfactorily aware of this for two weeks, so my decades-long inability to grasp this concept is what's ultimately frightening.) 

Yes the second part does seem 100% accurate to me. They may be judgments of my character but I'm not sure they are wrong. And yeah, when I made the thread I was a bit hesitant to title it as I did because rationally I know it isn't immoral to have a voluntary relationship with someone even if they are a statist. I'm not sure I grasp what you said either, can you give an example? Like if as a child we get upset about something instead of wondering why we just internalize "being upset is bad" and then feel guilty about it?

 

Very interesting question.  Let me see if I understand it correctly in general terms.  Is it ok to have a relationship with a person where a certain percentage of time you have negative interactions, and a certain percentage is positive interactions.  My question to you would be, how do you feel about it in general?  Looking at the relationship as a whole (positive plus non negotiable non resolved negatives).  I dont think you can follow someones prescriptions, that would be to allow yourself to give up control.  Think of how you feel being around people that you have described, are you happy to see them?  Do you dread talking to them having to avoid mines?  Does the fact that you can not resolve issues with them, how does that make you feel?  The choice is yours of course.  It can be a very difficult choice.  So for you personally is it ok to have A relationship, sure, can you have a full relationship, a deep one?

Thank you for your thoughts. If I haven't had a recent argument with my dad for example then I don't feel dread around him. I'm more neutral toward him. I don't think I'll ever be able to be very emotionally close to my parents, but I can't say for certain. Overall if the "mines" are avoided it isn't a negative experience. I don't know why it matters so much to me that they see reason in these areas, maybe that isn't important.

 

Does isolation appeal to you?

 

It sounds like this therapist is talking about her/himself. Personally, I might check to see if she/he knows that or not. If the therapist cannot see how this is the case I would look for a therapist that can provide me with therapy. 

Isolation is appealing to me on some level. I've always been shy, and I still fear meeting new people and being in unfamiliar situations. I don't know if she is talking about herself. It's possible. She seems to be saying everyone is entitled to their own view and I shouldn't give up on a relationship because of something like that. I can understand how it's necessary for her to have that opinion because if she criticized the beliefs of her patients then she may not have any. But she still recognizes it's my choice and I didn't view her comment as accusatory but rather concern that I'm abandoning a relationship needlessly.

[PatrickC]

No idea what "compartmentalising" relationships even means. Perhaps you should ask your therapist for clarity sakes.

[MMX2010]

 

 

Yes the second part does seem 100% accurate to me. They may be judgments of my character but I'm not sure they are wrong. And yeah, when I made the thread I was a bit hesitant to title it as I did because rationally I know it isn't immoral to have a voluntary relationship with someone even if they are a statist. I'm not sure I grasp what you said either, can you give an example? Like if as a child we get upset about something instead of wondering why we just internalize "being upset is bad" and then feel guilty about it?

 

I'm saying that feelings-are-feelings. And that feelings-can-only-ever-be-just-feelings. 

 

"I feel sad when you say X." can never be used as character-information, nor can it ever be altered to a different feeling just because anyone tells you it's "immoral" to feel sad when that person says X. 

 

When I accurately summarized your feelings back to you, it was impossible for you to feel pressured or judged by my summary because my summary was simply an accurate reflection of your feelings. 

 

But if I had said, like your therapist said, "Yep.  Sounds to me like you're definitely just dismissing entire relationships based on disagreements.  And you're definitely just trying to isolate yourself.", then it would've been impossible for you to NOT feel pressured and judged by this. 

 

Critically, though, there's no friggin' way for me to know whether you're "dismissing entire relationships based on disagreements".  And it's impossible for me to know whether you're "just trying to isolate yourself".  Those are highly-complicated mechanisms spoken with such false-authority that they seem easy to observe.  But they're not.  (I'd literally have to go into your head, feed your emotional reactions into a super-computer programmed to evaluate millions of possible reasons why you're feeling what you're feeling, and then report back what the supercomputer says.  And even then, the answer the computer reports would only be the most likely answer - not the automatically correct one.) 

 

So you're feeling pressured and judged because your therapist pressured and judged you.  And I'm pretty sure you're used to submitting to these pressurings and judgments from authority figures because you're just like me and everyone else: you've been forced, from birth, to surrender to these pressurings and judgments. 

 

And I sympathize, too, when you say, "And yeah, when I made the thread I was a bit hesitant to title it as I did because rationally I know it isn't immoral to have a voluntary relationship with someone even if they are a statist."  But it's not enough to merely rationally know this; you've got to know it both emotionally and rationally.  Because if you know it rationally, but not emotionally, you'll feel confused - which is what I think is happening now. 

 

Hope that helped. 

[cynicist]

My therapist has told me I shouldn't so easily dismiss relationships just because of disagreements. She says I'm trying to isolate myself.

 

I'm not sure what this comment about isolation has to do with the paragraph that follows it. (not a criticism, I really don't see the connection) You brought up positive and negative aspects of your relationship with two people in your family but in what way are you dismissing relationships or being isolated?

 

I feel a bit unmotivated and am struggling with relationships like with my parents

 

Haha, what an interesting set of euphemisms. What does "a bit unmotivated" or "struggling with relationships" mean?

[Alice Amell]

[stuff]

Yeah that definitely makes sense xD thanks. I am confused about that. Getting past childhood lessons is really tough.

 

I'm not sure what this comment about isolation has to do with the paragraph that follows it. (not a criticism, I really don't see the connection) You brought up positive and negative aspects of your relationship with two people in your family but in what way are you dismissing relationships or being isolated?

 

 

Haha, what an interesting set of euphemisms. What does "a bit unmotivated" or "struggling with relationships" mean?

My bad, I didn't explain it very well. I was basically saying things like "I don't care about my relationship with my parents" or "I don't want to have a relationship with them" because of the arguments I had with them. She thinks I'm using that as an excuse I guess to isolate myself. Or suggesting that I look past differences.

 

I don't want to get into specific details so I just used euphemisms. One thing I will say is I was slightly indifferent toward grades and was procrastinating and that's the "unmotivated" bit.

 

No idea what "compartmentalising" relationships even means. Perhaps you should ask your therapist for clarity sakes.

Maybe I'm using the word wrong but I meant to have a relationship but only in certain areas. Like I avoid all talk of philosophy, religion, and politics because that ends badly (in my opinion because they won't see reason, but I'm sure they say the same of me..at least my sister would, my dad just thinks god is the answer to everything and is undeniable). However if I section of the relationship in that way is it really possible for it to still be meaningful and to have a bond. My therapist thinks it is but I'm not sure, although even if I can't that doesn't mean I need to throw it away (esp. with my parents).

[MMX2010]

 

Maybe I'm using the word wrong but I meant to have a relationship but only in certain areas. Like I avoid all talk of philosophy, religion, and politics because that ends badly (in my opinion because they won't see reason, but I'm sure they say the same of me..at least my sister would, my dad just thinks god is the answer to everything and is undeniable). However if I section of the relationship in that way is it really possible for it to still be meaningful and to have a bond. My therapist thinks it is but I'm not sure, although even if I can't that doesn't mean I need to throw it away (esp. with my parents).

 

My father is the main source of negative energy in my life, because he's a colossal bully.  I've been living with my parents rent-free for thirteen months to save money to move to Vegas.  I've been listening to FDR for right months, so my life-changing perspectives have been happening right under his nose. 

 

He doesn't trigger me anymore, because I've emotionally walled myself from him.  And I will always hate his poor moral choices, and the negative consequences they've had for myself, my siblings, and my mother. 

 

But he is excellent at fixing cars, so we can "bond" whenever my car needs work. 

 

He rarely asks me for favors, because I've been so emotionally-distant from him for a very long time.  So I'm rarely, if ever, "pressured" or "tested" by him to form any emotional bonds - real or fake. 

 

And I can handle all this for two reasons: (1) I know that it's impossible for him to confess all the horrible things he's done, so I'm no longer expecting a heartfelt apology, or a sincere discussion of his parenting.  (2) I consider the car-fixing and rent-free living to be 1% of the restitution he owes me for being such an asshole. 

 

By your description of "compartmentalized relationship", I think mine qualifies 100%.  And I'm emotionally-awesome and feel no "oh-my-god, I'm being immoral!" qualms. 

[cynicist]

My bad, I didn't explain it very well. I was basically saying things like "I don't care about my relationship with my parents" or "I don't want to have a relationship with them" because of the arguments I had with them. She thinks I'm using that as an excuse I guess to isolate myself. Or suggesting that I look past differences.

 

If you have a theory like 'I'm just isolating myself', then test that theory. If it's true that you are just wanting to isolate yourself, then that means it has nothing to do with the relationships themselves, it's a problem with you. So evaluating those relationships should be fine. How do you feel about those relationships? What do you like about them? Does what you like outweigh what you dislike?

 

However if I section of the relationship in that way is it really possible for it to still be meaningful and to have a bond. My therapist thinks it is but I'm not sure, although even if I can't that doesn't mean I need to throw it away (esp. with my parents).

 

You mentioned having a really close friend. So you know what it feels like to have a bond with someone, a meaningful relationship. Parents know you better than any friend could since they've experienced you as a child, in addition to just plain knowing you longer. How does your relationship with them compare?

 

I don't want to get into specific details so I just used euphemisms. One thing I will say is I was slightly indifferent toward grades and was procrastinating and that's the "unmotivated" bit.

 

No problem. I just want you to be aware of the language you are using. I'm still trying to imagine what 'struggling with a relationship' looks like. Is a relationship like an achievement, or a task? I could see how you might struggle with those.

[adaywillcome]

"Is it okay to have compartmentalized relationships?"

 

Are you honest with yourself about those relationships?

[Alice Amell]

If you have a theory like 'I'm just isolating myself', then test that theory. If it's true that you are just wanting to isolate yourself, then that means it has nothing to do with the relationships themselves, it's a problem with you. So evaluating those relationships should be fine. How do you feel about those relationships? What do you like about them? Does what you like outweigh what you dislike?

 

 

You mentioned having a really close friend. So you know what it feels like to have a bond with someone, a meaningful relationship. Parents know you better than any friend could since they've experienced you as a child, in addition to just plain knowing you longer. How does your relationship with them compare?

 

 

No problem. I just want you to be aware of the language you are using. I'm still trying to imagine what 'struggling with a relationship' looks like. Is a relationship like an achievement, or a task? I could see how you might struggle with those.

 

Thank you for the insight. I shall try to figure out whether or not I do seek isolation.

 

I think if my parents were just people I had met somewhere, I wouldn't really like them. It's not all bad, but with my friend it's so much better. The positives outweigh the negatives by far however, at least for now..because I'm still a dependent. Once I'm not anymore, I'll re-evaluate.

 

And LOL that's a funny image now that you mention it.

 

My father is the main source of negative energy in my life, because he's a colossal bully.  I've been living with my parents rent-free for thirteen months to save money to move to Vegas.  I've been listening to FDR for right months, so my life-changing perspectives have been happening right under his nose. 

 

He doesn't trigger me anymore, because I've emotionally walled myself from him.  And I will always hate his poor moral choices, and the negative consequences they've had for myself, my siblings, and my mother. 

 

But he is excellent at fixing cars, so we can "bond" whenever my car needs work. 

 

He rarely asks me for favors, because I've been so emotionally-distant from him for a very long time.  So I'm rarely, if ever, "pressured" or "tested" by him to form any emotional bonds - real or fake. 

 

And I can handle all this for two reasons: (1) I know that it's impossible for him to confess all the horrible things he's done, so I'm no longer expecting a heartfelt apology, or a sincere discussion of his parenting.  (2) I consider the car-fixing and rent-free living to be 1% of the restitution he owes me for being such an asshole. 

 

By your description of "compartmentalized relationship", I think mine qualifies 100%.  And I'm emotionally-awesome and feel no "oh-my-god, I'm being immoral!" qualms. 

I'm really sorry you have to deal with a father like that. Thank you for sharing your experience.Will you be able to move to Vegas soon to escape that awful environment?

 I definitely understand what you mean about having no qualms given that situation, and it is a very good example of what I mean by compartmentalized relationship. To clarify, since you said "bond" in quotes I assume you don't actually feel any closer to him or any real bond when you fix cars? If that's the case: going off what you said, if it's completely compartmentalized, like yours, then there can be no bond. In my situation I may have somewhat of a bond but I think because there's always that barrier between us, it keeps us from really bonding deeply. And maybe the reason is because philosophy matters so much to me and so to "bond" with my dad I must put aside a large part of my identity in order to avoid conflict.

[MMX2010]

 

I'm really sorry you have to deal with a father like that. Thank you for sharing your experience.Will you be able to move to Vegas soon to escape that awful environment?

 

I'm moving within thirty days. 

 

Here's a seemingly random video that I'll tie into my story.  Please watch first, then read on. 

 

 

Within 30 seconds of that video, I knew the dude was gonna "do the right thing" and chose the Split ball, and that the chick was gonna choose the Steal ball.  He just seemed way too nice, honest, and "honorable". 

 

What I would've done is spoken first (very important) and said, "I'm going to split the money with you, but I'm going to choose the Steal ball.  Now I know that's sounds weird, so hear me out.  If you choose the Split ball, and I choose the Steal ball, I know I'm going to have all of the money.  But after I have all of the money, I'll write you a check for half of it.  I dunno whether five minutes from now I'm going to be much wealthier or abruptly ejected back into my already wonderful life, but I know I'm not going to be fucked with." 

 

The attitude while saying these words is key.  No nonsense.  No anger.  Anger just reeks of "I'm going to take vengeance on you, if you don't choose the Split ball."  But because you don't have the power to seek such vengeance upon her, she'd literally rather choose the Steal ball (standing her ground) than be bullied into accepting all of that money. 

 

All dignity, with enough empathy to realize that you ain't owed the money, you ain't owed her trust, and her choosing the Steal ball (if she chooses it) isn't personal.  In fact, it's so not personal that only an idiot would feel that it was personal.  If she chose the Steal ball, I'd smile at her - warmly and genuinely - and say, "Hey, don't feel bad.  I understand completely.  You did what you had to do." 

 

 

 

To clarify, since you said "bond" in quotes I assume you don't actually feel any closer to him or any real bond when you fix cars? If that's the case: going off what you said, if it's completely compartmentalized, like yours, then there can be no bond.

 

No, just the opposite.  Whenever we fix cars, I DO feel closer to him.  I don't know whether I'll ever be a father, but I have a very strong emotional template of what "good fatherhood" is supposed to be.  And car-fixing with him definitely triggers it.  So I'm very flooded with positive emotions of warmth, confirmation, justice, and determination. 

 

What's missing is the permanence. 

 

The majority of my interactions with him are covered under my unspoken "Fuck you; you haven't earned that." clause. 

 

When he asks me how my day went, I feel "Fuck you", and then answer, non-emotionally, "good". 

 

When he asks me how business is going, I feel "Fuck you", and then answer, non-emotionally, "good".

 

When he leaves a bunch of small messes laying around, (a repeated event that has always slowly-but-assuredly provoked my mother into rage-then-deep-depression), I feel "Fuck you", and I'll clean the mess.  But there's no way in hell I'll ever let him see me do it, because he hasn't earned my cleaning-it-up.  And more than anything, if he saw me clean it, he'd say, "Thank you" - which will provoke my "Fuck you" clause so strongly, I'd probably belt him in the face. 

 

 

 

In my situation I may have somewhat of a bond but I think because there's always that barrier between us, it keeps us from really bonding deeply. And maybe the reason is because philosophy matters so much to me and so to "bond" with my dad I must put aside a large part of my identity in order to avoid conflict.

 

It's simpler than that. 

 

Anyone who wants to earn the glory and honor of your permanent-commitment must be committed to understanding philosophy. 

 

Your father, like all fathers, expects a very large future payoff for having conceived you and raised you to adulthood.  But he doesn't realize that he can't bully you into providing that pay-off for him.  So you use words like "struggling in my relationship with him" and "maybe I feel a bond; maybe I don't" to prevent yourself from being exploited by him. 

 

But you don't realize that the wall you're trying to build isn't built with logic, words, and explanations.  (Worse, you don't realize that the logic, words, and explanations you use will never 100%-perfectly describe your feelings.  So if you give priority/primacy to your logic, words, and explanations, you're always going to feel just-a-little-inadequate.  And then you'll try to eliminate that inadequacy with even more logic, words, and explanations - (which won't work).  And then you'll feel really inadequate.) 

 

The wall you'll need (presuming you'll need a wall at all) is exactly like any bond you'll feel.  It's strictly an emotion.  And, like all emotions, if you just feel it without trying to think about it, it'll emerge quickly, spontaneously, "magically" - over and over again, whenever you need it to. 

 

Hope that was helpful. 

[Alice Amell]

 

I'm moving within thirty days. 

 

Here's a seemingly random video that I'll tie into my story.  Please watch first, then read on. 

 

 

Within 30 seconds of that video, I knew the dude was gonna "do the right thing" and chose the Split ball, and that the chick was gonna choose the Steal ball.  He just seemed way too nice, honest, and "honorable". 

 

What I would've done is spoken first (very important) and said, "I'm going to split the money with you, but I'm going to choose the Steal ball.  Now I know that's sounds weird, so hear me out.  If you choose the Split ball, and I choose the Steal ball, I know I'm going to have all of the money.  But after I have all of the money, I'll write you a check for half of it.  I dunno whether five minutes from now I'm going to be much wealthier or abruptly ejected back into my already wonderful life, but I know I'm not going to be fucked with." 

 

The attitude while saying these words is key.  No nonsense.  No anger.  Anger just reeks of "I'm going to take vengeance on you, if you don't choose the Split ball."  But because you don't have the power to seek such vengeance upon her, she'd literally rather choose the Steal ball (standing her ground) than be bullied into accepting all of that money. 

 

All dignity, with enough empathy to realize that you ain't owed the money, you ain't owed her trust, and her choosing the Steal ball (if she chooses it) isn't personal.  In fact, it's so not personal that only an idiot would feel that it was personal.  If she chose the Steal ball, I'd smile at her - warmly and genuinely - and say, "Hey, don't feel bad.  I understand completely.  You did what you had to do." 

 

 

 

 

No, just the opposite.  Whenever we fix cars, I DO feel closer to him.  I don't know whether I'll ever be a father, but I have a very strong emotional template of what "good fatherhood" is supposed to be.  And car-fixing with him definitely triggers it.  So I'm very flooded with positive emotions of warmth, confirmation, justice, and determination. 

 

What's missing is the permanence. 

 

The majority of my interactions with him are covered under my unspoken "Fuck you; you haven't earned that." clause. 

 

When he asks me how my day went, I feel "Fuck you", and then answer, non-emotionally, "good". 

 

When he asks me how business is going, I feel "Fuck you", and then answer, non-emotionally, "good".

 

When he leaves a bunch of small messes laying around, (a repeated event that has always slowly-but-assuredly provoked my mother into rage-then-deep-depression), I feel "Fuck you", and I'll clean the mess.  But there's no way in hell I'll ever let him see me do it, because he hasn't earned my cleaning-it-up.  And more than anything, if he saw me clean it, he'd say, "Thank you" - which will provoke my "Fuck you" clause so strongly, I'd probably belt him in the face. 

 

 

 

 

It's simpler than that. 

 

Anyone who wants to earn the glory and honor of your permanent-commitment must be committed to understanding philosophy. 

 

Your father, like all fathers, expects a very large future payoff for having conceived you and raised you to adulthood.  But he doesn't realize that he can't bully you into providing that pay-off for him.  So you use words like "struggling in my relationship with him" and "maybe I feel a bond; maybe I don't" to prevent yourself from being exploited by him. 

 

But you don't realize that the wall you're trying to build isn't built with logic, words, and explanations.  (Worse, you don't realize that the logic, words, and explanations you use will never 100%-perfectly describe your feelings.  So if you give priority/primacy to your logic, words, and explanations, you're always going to feel just-a-little-inadequate.  And then you'll try to eliminate that inadequacy with even more logic, words, and explanations - (which won't work).  And then you'll feel really inadequate.) 

 

The wall you'll need (presuming you'll need a wall at all) is exactly like any bond you'll feel.  It's strictly an emotion.  And, like all emotions, if you just feel it without trying to think about it, it'll emerge quickly, spontaneously, "magically" - over and over again, whenever you need it to. 

 

Hope that was helpful. 

Yes, thank you very much. That's very interesting that you do feel the bond during car fixing. Like me when my dad teaches me about stocks. But otherwise there is an emotional wall, not as extreme as yours but still something. I think part of my frustration arises because he won't see reason. But there's so much more that you're right I can't put into words I shall just trust my feelings on it. I've known him my whole life and can't summarize it neatly or tie a bow on it which I am tempted to do. My closest friend doesn't have all the same conclusions as me, but he does listen to reason and follows a methodology and is willing to talk about it.

 

And I feel so bad for the guy in the video..  I think that show is awful for putting people in that situation

[PatrickC]

Maybe I'm using the word wrong but I meant to have a relationship but only in certain areas. Like I avoid all talk of philosophy, religion, and politics because that ends badly (in my opinion because they won't see reason, but I'm sure they say the same of me..at least my sister would, my dad just thinks god is the answer to everything and is undeniable). However if I section of the relationship in that way is it really possible for it to still be meaningful and to have a bond. My therapist thinks it is but I'm not sure, although even if I can't that doesn't mean I need to throw it away (esp. with my parents).

 

Yes, I think it's fine to have those relationships which are generally ancillary to your personal life, such as work or neighbours. But to the personal relationships of family and friends, then it's entirely reasonable to question them. Your therapist is suggesting that you cannot make a choice about how you feel about those people regardless of their response to you and that potentially you are being 'unreasonable'.That said, why not invite your family into a session with your therapist. That way you might discover more about your family and them about you. But likewise, you may learn something more about your therapist too.