hannahbanana Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 Hi, not sure if this post fits into the Anarchy section or the Self-Knowledge section, but here goes... I was dismissed from jury duty because I said that due to my issues with practices of the government (for philosophical reasons) I would be unable to give an impartial opinion if I served as a juror. The judge was livid, and intimidated me into feeling selfish and ungrateful for all the protection the american judicial system provides, compared to other countries. In the end, I was dismissed, but I felt really afraid afterwards, and sort of doubting my decision to do this. Could this get me into trouble in the future? Now that I've refused to participate in the judicial system for my values, what do I do if I someday have a crime committed against me and may need to use the judicial system for compensation? Would that be hypocritical? I suppose I am trying to discern if these negative feelings are from my true self, or from my false self. I guilt myself for a lot of things, sort of like an inner authority figure (haven't figured out which figure it is yet), so I suspect that much of my feelings are coming from that. But I really do feel like if I had to face this situation again (which I probably will in 8 years or so), I wouldn't say anything. Part of this post was just to get it off my chest, but I think it would be helpful for me to get some other opinions on this as well.
AMR Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 The government is scary and you went against them recently, I think it is understandable to have negative feelings towards this. You are doubting your decision to stand up for your values when you were going to judge someone for a crime? Remember, they dismissed you. I think you did the right thing, it will unlikely be a problem if called again or if you need the judicial system. I was called for a death penalty case last year and they told everyone to leave if they didn't think the death penalty should be used under any circumstances. It is a common thing for people to not agree with the government. 1
shirgall Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 I'd show up for jury duty just to practice logic, reason, evidence, and... jury nullification. 4
Ace Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 Just pull the tried and true Simpson's method next time - "I'm prejudiced against all races" But more seriously - of course they want you to feel bad - it's one of those things absolutely everyone says "It's your civic duty!". I don't think you can get in trouble. I believe there is some kind of charge that exists for people trying to scheme to get out of jury duty but it's almost never applied. But that's more for someone coming up with a lie of some kind, if you have a moral objection, they'll be critical but can't really do anything. It's so funny in a way, I think there are certain religions that are opposed to serving on a jury and the people who claim that would be let off without question or criticism. But if you have a legitimate moral objection - ie. the system is corrupt and in reality it's anything but a fair and impartial trial etc. - you're not a good citizen. If you have a legitimate and ethical justification for seeking restitution from someone, you don't have any other choice to go about it than through the system as it exists today. So it wouldn't be hypocritical. I think the feelings are fairly common. I find that whenever I'm faced with someone trying to tell me to do something, trying to take a position of authority that can't be questioned - it makes me angry, almost a physical sensation. And I think that goes back to the same things every thinking person has experienced growing up - you need an explanation and justification for why you should do something, but all we got was "because I said so". And because we were taught to just submit to authority, and were made to feel bad when we tried to challenge it, we're sort of conditioned to feel guilty when we do it as adults.
WorBlux Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 A crime's already been committed by forcing you to show up. If it's such a great system why to they have to compel participation? That dude in the Robe is likely a narcissistic or psychopath, and you took a big old dump on his word-view. He probably would have been less offended if you had insinuated his mother was a whore.
hannahbanana Posted August 5, 2014 Author Posted August 5, 2014 Thanks everyone for the quick responses! I think it helps a lot to know that there's some support out there, even if I don't get it from 99% of the people physically around me. I think a large part of my surprise was that although other people gave objections such as issues with the police departments, the judge was completely fine and even nice for all of them, except for me. I guess for them it's okay to attack symptoms, but wrong to get right down to the heart of the issue with the government. It gave me a bit of a reality check as to just how much people really do react violently to these ideas. I'm hoping that although I initially felt afraid by doing this, it will help me be more confident in being assertive, and in standing by my opinions.
Kevin Beal Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 I know a guy who simply never responds to jury duty summons. He's had several of them come up, ignored them all and is apparently not in any trouble with the state. He can just say "I never got it". What are they going to do? Say "yes you did"? And that takes a huge amount of courage to stand up for your principles like that. Massive props, Hannah! I have no idea if that could get you in trouble in the future, but I don't think it's hypocritical in the slightest to call the police or bring charges against someone. What other system can you use? They violently prevent any other organizations from helping you with that. (Assuming it's not a charge for a "crime" you think is totally moral). You can be against taxes and still drive on the roads without being a hypocrite. What, are you going to walk everywhere? You're only culpable to the degree to which you have choice. I don't know, right? But I imagine it's gotta be pretty scary for a judge to hear that someone morally opposed the institution he represents, vocally and in front of other potential jurors. I also imagine that he would feel some doubt, hearing that from someone not covered in tattoos, bald and with nose piercings. Something no one has probably ever told him before, and yet must intuitively get is true enough to warrant the moral opposition (how many crooked judges and cops are there?!). Maybe it's not your fear or your doubt that you felt. Especially considering that he lectured you in a condescending manner in what is obvious defensiveness. And with people who are that messed up psychologically when it comes to power, they regress and do what children do when they feel distress: they provoke those feelings in the people around them.
Psychophant Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 Now that I've refused to participate in the judicial system for my values, what do I do if I someday have a crime committed against me and may need to use the judicial system for compensation? Would that be hypocritical? You live in a system of coercion where no alternative is availabled. Dat was like holding you captive in the basement and calling you a hypocrite if you'd take the food given to you, but at least you refused to lick the boots of the kidnappers. Morality requires choice, bro. You have no proper choice availabled. Otherwise you could say, you have allways a choice, but getting killed is not a viable option, because it is immoral in itself, given the circumstances..
jacbot Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 is normal reaction. The judge has his/her finger on the button controlling all the men with guns! Any sane person would be "worried".
Brentb Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 Jury duty - yet another reason not to vote or register to vote. I'd be scared too.
shirgall Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 Jury duty - yet another reason not to vote or register to vote. Around here you can get jury duty from getting a driver's license too.
hannahbanana Posted August 5, 2014 Author Posted August 5, 2014 Around here you can get jury duty from getting a driver's license too. Yeah, it's basically unavoidable now. They put you in the pool through voter registration, DMV, unemployment, social security, disability, basically any government program. And you can't be excused, even if you have a job that requires you to be present at all times (an ER doctor on call, a full-time daycare runner, etc). You can only get it deferred.
cobra2411 Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 I'd show up for jury duty just to practice logic, reason, evidence, and... jury nullification. I did just that when I was called. Case was an open and shut murder case so no jury nullification... But I was prepared if it did come up. OP, good for you to stick to your beliefs and stand up to the monster.
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