Please explain the Israel/Palestine conflict

[PGP]

I believe that most palestinians (in contrast to their leaders) want peace & freedom 

and therefore they can stay.

 

 

He asked if they could become israelis, not if they could stay.

But I guess if there is no israel, just a collective right of a construct identity, then there would be no israelis. Right.

Just Jews. But not jews based on religion. Jews based on lineage. The religious demarcation is just coincidental.

[jpahmad]

I believe that most palestinians (in contrast to their leaders) want peace & freedom 

and therefore they can stay.

 

 

 

It may be interesting to note that

most Israeli citizens of arab nationality object to land exchange initiatives

(chiefly advanced by an Israeli politician named Liberman)

under which they remain on their land

but the land becomes part of the Palestinian Authority. 

 

you didn't answer my question.  What actions do you prescribe if you are in charge of Israel?

[Adam_Min_Hayeshuv]

you didn't answer my question.  What actions do you prescribe if you are in charge of Israel?

 

 

Essentially two things:

1. Set up a trust to manage the alluvial title over ERETZ YISRAEL

and privatise everything else

in s gradual process that will culminate in anarchy.

 

 

Some questions do arise:

1. Can a nation with real security threats like Israel do only with private armies?

2. Shouldn't we let  other nations

which reside in less hostile environments

such se Denmark or Canada 

try out anarchy first? 

3. What constitution should that trust adopt?

4. how to prevent the trust from extending its alluvial rights and becoming a state?

 

I'm still thinking about it.

 

From my part,  the best case scenario would be: 

1. private armies would provide adequate defence

2. all parts of ERETZ YISRAEL would be liberated

(and thus restoring my property rights).

3. the trust will limit itself to ensuring that no one will secede with its land 

and unite with a neighbouring arab state

or host an ISIS sleeper cell.

[PGP]

 

Essentially two things:

1. Set up a trust to manage the alluvial title over ERETZ YISRAEL

and privatise everything else

in s gradual process that will culminate in anarchy.

 

 

Some questions do arise:

1. Can a nation with real security threats like Israel do only with private armies?

2. Shouldn't we let  other nations

which reside in less hostile environments

such se Denmark or Canada 

try out anarchy first? 

3. What constitution should that trust adopt?

4. how to prevent the trust from extending its alluvial rights and becoming a state?

 

I'm still thinking about it.

 

From my part,  the best case scenario would be: 

1. private armies would provide adequate defence

2. all parts of ERETZ YISRAEL would be liberated

(and thus restoring my property rights).

3. the trust will limit itself to ensuring that no one will secede with its land 

and unite with a neighbouring arab state

or host an ISIS sleeper cell.

 

My understanding is that Hamas has the destruction of the state of israel as part of its charter. If you are for anarchism, then you must agree with Hamas? 

[jpahmad]

 

Essentially two things:

1. Set up a trust to manage the alluvial title over ERETZ YISRAEL

and privatise everything else

in s gradual process that will culminate in anarchy.

 

 

Some questions do arise:

1. Can a nation with real security threats like Israel do only with private armies?

2. Shouldn't we let  other nations

which reside in less hostile environments

such se Denmark or Canada 

try out anarchy first? 

3. What constitution should that trust adopt?

4. how to prevent the trust from extending its alluvial rights and becoming a state?

 

I'm still thinking about it.

 

From my part,  the best case scenario would be: 

1. private armies would provide adequate defence

2. all parts of ERETZ YISRAEL would be liberated

(and thus restoring my property rights).

3. the trust will limit itself to ensuring that no one will secede with its land 

and unite with a neighbouring arab state

or host an ISIS sleeper cell.

 

 

 

What if some people (Palestinians) don't like your plan?  What do you do with them?

 

 

 

 

 

[gausian]

Hi AdamYou did not answer my question.Do you understand and agree with the anarchist philosophy?

For the third time you did not answer the question.You are definitely committed to non answers.I will leave it to that.

[LovePrevails]

Hey man. You crazy? If you just agreed with the "arguments" given and identified as jewish, you'd have a house an a plot waiting for you in the land called israel. I'm sure they'd clear the place of the smell of Palestinian before you got there. Sweet deal!!!

 

what do my personal self interest got to do with facts?

those were not arguments they are an account of historical record

 

I guess you are being satirical

My understanding is that Hamas has the destruction of the state of israel as part of its charter. If you are for anarchism, then you must agree with Hamas? 

 

2006: Hamas drops its call for the destruction of Israel from its manifesto http://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/jan/12/israel

So can we all stop perpetuating this myth please? 

I suggest everyone read Adams response to my account of history for living prrof of how it is impossible to reason with Zionists

he believes that jews have the right to Israel because thousands of years ago some people were exiled from there

 

he has no concern for what this costs to the people living there when the European jews moved back

it doesn't matter - the jews are entitled to the land regardless of the Palestinian body count

 

he even believes that jews have the right to the occupied territories - so he is not even willing to compromise for peace

 

 

You do not have to even argue with these people, they make their own positions look morally repugnant and untennable

the only person these arguments appeal to are religious fundamentalists, or people with an entitlement mentality

 

I will not be responding to any more of his posts because his position is unreasonable and morally twisted

but you an see for yourself the zionist mentality. they have a right to everything they want, regardless of whom they have to take it from and who suffers as a consequence.

[PGP]

what do my personal self interest got to do with facts?

those were not arguments they are an account of historical record

 

I guess you are being satirical

 

2006: Hamas drops its call for the destruction of Israel from its manifesto http://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/jan/12/israel

So can we all stop perpetuating this myth please? 

I suggest everyone read Adams response to my account of history for living prrof of how it is impossible to reason with Zionists

he believes that jews have the right to Israel because thousands of years ago some people were exiled from there

 

he has no concern for what this costs to the people living there when the European jews moved back

it doesn't matter - the jews are entitled to the land regardless of the Palestinian body count

 

he even believes that jews have the right to the occupied territories - so he is not even willing to compromise for peace

 

 

You do not have to even argue with these people, they make their own positions look morally repugnant and untennable

the only person these arguments appeal to are religious fundamentalists, or people with an entitlement mentality

 

I will not be responding to any more of his posts because his position is unreasonable and morally twisted

but you an see for yourself the zionist mentality. they have a right to everything they want, regardless of whom they have to take it from and who suffers as a consequence.

Satirical. Of course!!! 

I have continued in this thread (despite the fact that the proponent of the israeli lineage construct will not reply to me) in order to ensure as much of this nonsense is expounded upon as possible. When someone tries to justify genocide or displacement based on fairy tales and then to present it as anarchism it must be exposed. This is a situation where the exposing the truth of a position (from the horses mouth so to speak) is the best way to totally discredit it.

As regards Hamas, there are conflicting reports on this. I saw a recent interview of the Hamas leader who refused to accept the legitimacy of israel or its right to exist. I can source the video if you require. 

Again, I meant no disrespect on the personal situation, it was purely to highlight the absurdity of the proposition.

Peace out.

[LovePrevails]

the funny thing about this idea that the European jews are entitled to Israel because of the bible, 

is that the European jews don't even descend from those people - I'm not a follower of David Icke but here he explains that they actually are descendents of Khazaria

 

[Adam_Min_Hayeshuv]

 

What if some people (Palestinians) don't like your plan?  What do you do with them?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nothing.

They don't violate my property rights by disliking something.

 

The plan is that as

In an anarchy you will need an insurance company backing you

if you want to register you kids to school or work somewhere

than they will have to prove to prove to that insurance agency

that they don't plan any terror attack.

 

Furthermore, an Arab PDA will have to prove to other PDAs

with which she wants to coexist

that she is not affiliated with DAASH, HAMAS or something like that.

 

 

 

My understanding is that Hamas has the destruction of the state of israel as part of its charter. If you are for anarchism, then you must agree with Hamas? 

I can assure you one thing.

Hamas is not some sort of a libertarian underground.

 

For example, they teach there children to kill jews

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57Q8K5TmivM

 

 

Hamas established a religious dictatorship in the 

Gaza strip

he wants to expand that dictatorship to all of Israel

and at a later state to connect it with a world wide Islamic State.

 

 

the funny thing about this idea that the European jews are entitled to Israel because of the bible, 

is that the European jews don't even descend from those people - I'm not a follower of David Icke but here he explains that they actually are descendents of Khazaria

 

Is it so hard to consult the relevant entry in wikipedia

rather than find anecdotal data by publicity hungry "experts" in their own eyes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews#Paternal_lineage.2C_Y_chromosome

 

Anyway, genetic descent is not a pre condition for the jewish claim on ERETZ YISRAEL

just like if you have a house you can inherit it to who ever you want

including adopted children.

 

[PGP]

 

 

Nothing.

They don't violate my property rights by disliking something.

 

The plan is that as

In an anarchy you will need an insurance company backing you

if you want to register you kids to school or work somewhere

than they will have to prove to prove to that insurance agency

that they don't plan any terror attack.

 

Furthermore, an Arab PDA will have to prove to other PDAs

with which she wants to coexist

that she is not affiliated with DAASH, HAMAS or something like that.

 

 

 

I can assure you one thing.

Hamas is not some sort of a libertarian underground.

 

For example, they teach there children to kill jews

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57Q8K5TmivM

 

 

Hamas established a religious dictatorship in the 

Gaza strip

he wants to expand that dictatorship to all of Israel

and at a later state to connect it with a world wide Islamic State.

 

 

Is it so hard to consult the relevant entry in wikipedia

rather than find anecdotal data by publicity hungry "experts" in their own eyes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews#Paternal_lineage.2C_Y_chromosome

 

Anyway, genetic descent is not a pre condition for the jewish claim on ERETZ YISRAEL

just like if you have a house you can inherit it to who ever you want

including adopted children.

 

 

Ah, I see. So, YOU are allowed to kill to "reclaim" property, but Hamas is not allowed to kill in defence. Echoes of the Sudetenland and Lebensraum?

Also, a question I have asked others before. What is the difference between zionism and ISIS? Both establishing a homeland/caliphate based on iron-age and 6th century texts and fairy-tales. 

[Adam_Min_Hayeshuv]

 

 

2006: Hamas drops its call for the destruction of Israel from its manifesto http://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/jan/12/israel

So can we all stop perpetuating this myth please? 

 

 

Too bad it didn't really happened.

You may want to consult Wikipeida on this

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant#Statements_about_Israel

 

 

We in Israel believe that the press is highly biased against us

the amount of misinformation I observe here

seems to affirm this view.

[PGP]

Too bad it didn't really happened.

You may want to consult Wikipeida on this

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant#Statements_about_Israel

 

 

We in Israel believe that the press is highly biased against us

the amount of misinformation I observe here

seems to affirm this view.

What misinformation? There should be a good amount of it, so make a good, long list.

[LovePrevails]

 

Anyway, genetic descent is not a pre condition for the jewish claim on ERETZ YISRAEL

 

 

 

:D :D so you are entitled to land just by being a jew - can anyone take this seriously?

 

 

 

We in Israel believe that the press is highly biased against us

 

 

Of course you do! Israelis are perpetrators who play victim.

Jews are not being starved in a blockade, Palestinians are.

If the press was at all balanced on israel and Palestine and the facts were presented faily you would not find so much support from Israel in America and Britain. If people were given access to the facts the only people who would support Israel would be religious crazies who think the bible is a title deed to the land.

[Adam_Min_Hayeshuv]

 

:D :D so you are entitled to land just by being a jew - can anyone take this seriously?

 

 

 

 

 

So you are entitled to a a house from your parents just because they have elected to inherit it to you?

 

Are we suppose to be socialists here & support a predatory inheritance tax?

 

 

 

 

 

Of course you do! Israelis are perpetrators who play victim.

Jews are not being starved in a blockade, Palestinians are.

If the press was at all balanced on israel and Palestine and the facts were presented faily you would not find so much support from Israel in America and Britain. If people were given access to the facts the only people who would support Israel would be religious crazies who think the bible is a title deed to the land.

 

 

Said the person which makes a habit of presenting incorrect statements as facts:

1. You were wrong about international law.

2.  You were wrong about Hamas Convent.

3. You were wrong about Jewish descent.

[jpahmad]

 

 

Nothing.

They don't violate my property rights by disliking something.

 

The plan is that as

In an anarchy you will need an insurance company backing you

if you want to register you kids to school or work somewhere

than they will have to prove to prove to that insurance agency

that they don't plan any terror attack.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Adam, how are you going to get your land back from the Palestinians?  They don't want you there and they will defend what they perceive as their property to the death.  Stop dodging and answer the question like a man.

[Adam_Min_Hayeshuv]

 

:D :D so you are entitled to land just by being a jew - can anyone take this seriously?

 

 

 

Of course you do! Israelis are perpetrators who play victim.

Jews are not being starved in a blockade, Palestinians are.

If the press was at all balanced on israel and Palestine and the facts were presented faily you would not find so much support from Israel in America and Britain. If people were given access to the facts the only people who would support Israel would be religious crazies who think the bible is a title deed to the land.

 

 

It is usually considered cowerdly

to hint that there are some yet unknown horrible facts

without actually specifying any.

 

On the contrary, it seems to me that almost every conceivable false allegation

was already ascribed by the western media about Israel

without adhering to strictest profeesional standards.

http://www.westernjournalism.com/time-magazine-forced-retract-anti-israel-allegation/

 

 

Hamas is an organisation whose declared target is to destroy the state of Israel.

To criticise Israel containment policy against him

is to deny the jews from the right to defend themsleves.

 

The palestinians have elected Hamas to represent them,

therefore they have no one to blame save themsleves.

In fact most of the local arab population support terror attack against innocent Israeli civilians

http://freebeacon.com/national-security/poll-89-percent-of-palestinians-support-terror-attacks-on-israel/

 

It is a little known fact that Egypt which also borders the Gaza strip

also lays a blockade on them

but somehow all the criticism is directed towards Israel.

 

 

Adam, how are you going to get your land back from the Palestinians?  They don't want you there and they will defend what they perceive as their property to the death.  Stop dodging and answer the question like a man.

 

I always give forward answers.

 

The scenario I want to prevent is a group of residents

which is loyal to a foreign entity

will take advantage of the anarchy

and in effect cut a portion of my land 

 

This can also happen if Texas will evolve into an anarchy

but several texan inhabitants will prefer to unite with Mexico. 

 

 

The solution will be that any PDA which will not have extensive commercial and legal connects 

with a significant number of other PDAs in ERETZ YISRAEL

will be wiped off.

 

For example, the current Palestinian Athority

if viewed as a PDA

will not last long under anarchy

if everything goes according to my plan.

[J-William]

Adam, how are you going to get your land back from the Palestinians?  They don't want you there and they will defend what they perceive as their property to the death.  Stop dodging and answer the question like a man.

 

 

I'm pretty sure I know where this is going... 

 

But helpfully for myself I've set my preferences to ignore this guy, so I don't need to worry about anything he says. :-D

[jpahmad]

 

 

I'm pretty sure I know where this is going... 

 

But helpfully for myself I've set my preferences to ignore this guy, so I don't need to worry about anything he says. :-D

 

 

Yep, it will go there inevitably.  He just doesn't want to admit it.  I'll do it for him.  Killing and slaughter, that's where it will go.  Adam, you're a violent man.

[LovePrevails]

[pretzelogik]

Excellent question!

 

I do cosier myself to by part of Am Yisrael (nation of Israel)

I don't identify with the state of Israel as I'm not a statist

I'm also not religious.

 

I believe that the alluvial title to Eretz Yisrael is owned in communion by all the jews

(in the sense that every jew owns all of Eretz Yisrael)

not because god had given it to us (I'm not religious) but be because our ancestors

worked, conquered and purchased it

(like the ancestors of every other nation on earth)

and we have inherited it from us

the same way parents inherit their house to their children.

 

I believe that the best way to enforce this property right is through anarchy.

The Israeli army response to murderous attacks by our neighbours is too mellow

and doesn't do full justice to the property rights of the residents of the attacked settlements.

 

I believe that we would be best serve by a private armies.

 

If conquering is accepted as a way to acquire property (for example, US vs. Cherokee, et al), how can there ever be a violation claim to any disputed territory?  The territory will revert to the conquered once they reconquer it.  Rinse, repeat.  I don't understand the  argument for rights or legitimacy, though.

[Adam_Min_Hayeshuv]

If conquering is accepted as a way to acquire property (for example, US vs. Cherokee, et al), how can there ever be a violation claim to any disputed territory?  The territory will revert to the conquered once they reconquer it.  Rinse, repeat.  I don't understand the  argument for rights or legitimacy, though.

 

It indeed isn't.

Therefore, in subsequent posts I've changed to defence

as a way to establish the jewish claim on ERETZ YISRAEL.

 

Defence is a legitimate land use,

and therefore, fortifications and natural barriers used for defence

should also be considered homesteaded.

 

I further claim that AM YISRAEL (the nation of Israel) is the legitimate inheritor of this property

when I don't have to assume that there is a genetical continuity between the jews of the 1st & 2nd temple 

and the jewish people today.

But genetic studies on the Non Recombining Y chromes (NRY) found evidence to support genetic continuity.

 

The difference between me & you

is that you bring up anecdotes from unverified sources

whereas I bring the complete and verified.

You resemble communists which after learning that their doctrine failed

try to find false & partial statements in other to continue pushing their failed ideology.

 

1. IDF has the lowest Civilian Casulty Rate in the world

    Hamas & other terror groups the highest.

2. IDF targets enemy combatants

    Hamas targets civilians.

3. IDF goes out of his way to evacuate the fighting zone from civilians

    Hamas uses civilians as human shield.

4. IDF investigates and punishes for ruthless treatment of innocent civlians

    Hamas praises & awards lunatics which massacred civilians.

 

But why hear it for me?

Here is a testimony by an arab person 

who was born and raised by a Hamas founder:

 

Yep, it will go there inevitably.  He just doesn't want to admit it.  I'll do it for him.  Killing and slaughter, that's where it will go.  Adam, you're a violent man.

 

DUDE,

You are a one men show :-)

 

If you argue only to disprove me

and failing that you put words in my mouth

why do you need a forum?

 

My plan would bring peace and prosperity to all the residents of ERETZ YISRAEL.

Israeli arabs vote with their feet 

preferring too stay in Israel rather than immigrate to an arab country

whereas most jews from arab lands

voted with their feet and immigrated to Israel.

 

This attests more than anything on the freedom and prosperity offered by Israel to all residents

which will be further enhanced under my plan.

[PGP]

Here is a link to  PC Roberts article. I ask that any American reading the above "argument" for,(( well I'm still not sure what it is, it seems to change like a chameleon), but lets call it a jewish homeland based on non-religious lines and based on lineage but you can convert and also take part and you can be an anarchist but also adhere to a state and you can be in favour of non-violence but you can also kill to secure "property" based on a fairy-tale and oh yes, you can provide a safe haven for all once they give up their land and submit to your legitimacy)

read the PCR article and take solace that your country is being played like a fiddle and funding this "project". YOUR taxpayer money for bombs, missiles and bribe-money. 

Also, a WP article on the israeli plans to further expand into the West Bank. I'm sure the protagonist for this reclamation is thrilled.

 

It makes me sick.

 

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/08/27/israel-lobby-eliminates-another-critic-paul-craig-roberts/

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/israel-proposes-taking-more-west-bank-land-for-jewish-settlers/2014/08/31/97260a8a-1bc7-4406-ba57-c6493dfdf865_story.html

[LovePrevails]

if you've ever wondered how nazi soldiers could leave concentration camps and go back to their homes at night to kiss their children and tuck them up in bed then just look at the way Adam justifies murder, torture, harassment, starvation and oppression in Palestine

[Adam_Min_Hayeshuv]

Here is a link to  PC Roberts article. I ask that any American reading the above "argument" for,(( well I'm still not sure what it is, it seems to change like a chameleon), but lets call it a jewish homeland based on non-religious lines and based on lineage but you can convert and also take part and you can be an anarchist but also adhere to a state and you can be in favour of non-violence but you can also kill to secure "property" based on a fairy-tale and oh yes, you can provide a safe haven for all once they give up their land and submit to your legitimacy)

read the PCR article and take solace that your country is being played like a fiddle and funding this "project". YOUR taxpayer money for bombs, missiles and bribe-money. 

Also, a WP article on the israeli plans to further expand into the West Bank. I'm sure the protagonist for this reclamation is thrilled.

 

It makes me sick.

 

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/08/27/israel-lobby-eliminates-another-critic-paul-craig-roberts/

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/israel-proposes-taking-more-west-bank-land-for-jewish-settlers/2014/08/31/97260a8a-1bc7-4406-ba57-c6493dfdf865_story.html

 

Jews were never a popular nation,

There is no shortage of people bashing Israel.

What is lacking is evidence and reason in their criticism.

 

Paul Craig Roberts just authored an article full of hate without establishing any of his claim

this is just a loose set of wild accusitians.

 

Similarly, if Eran Efrati really had a case

he would have presented the evidence to the Israeli justice system

if for no other reason than simply for the "fun" of legally terrorising Israeli soldiers.

 

If Eran Efrati fails to sue IDF or the specific soldiers 

for crimes allegedly committed during the last operation in Gaza

I'll have to assume that he just recycled anti-semitic propaganda.

 

I would like to note that

the Israeli legal system is well known in the world for its impartiality and high professional standards.

You may want to research on Aharon Barak, the former president of the supreme court in Israel

to understand what I'm talking about.

 

 

if you've ever wondered how nazi soldiers could leave concentration camps and go back to their homes at night to kiss their children and tuck them up in bed then just look at the way Adam justifies murder, torture, harassment, starvation and oppression in Palestine

 

Congrats!

You've lost the debate.

According to the rule "The first one to reference the Nazis lose".

 

You don't succeed to rival me intellectually

so you turn to emotion.

 

 

Note that you haven't established that Israel practices anything but self defence.

Furthermore, it is well known that Hamas attacks mainly civilians:

jewish civilians using missiles and bombs 

and arabs by forcing them to serve as human shields.

 

Your failure to account for this establishes that you critisicism is based on anti semitic leanings.

[gausian]

Adam

All you do is argue from a statist position, saying you're an anarchist does not change that.

You bring nation, state (statist), IDF (statist), legal system (statist), Jews (religion), supreme court (statist), and on....

Non of these are valid anarchist definitions.

I suspect you are trolling and probably from the hasbara, which is the logical conclusion for why you are in this comunity forum.

I open to be corrected.

[PGP]

Jews were never a popular nation,

There is no shortage of people bashing Israel.

What is lacking is evidence and reason in their criticism.

 

Paul Craig Roberts just authored an article full of hate without establishing any of his claim

this is just a loose set of wild accusitians.

 

Similarly, if Eran Efrati really had a case

he would have presented the evidence to the Israeli justice system

if for no other reason than simply for the "fun" of legally terrorising Israeli soldiers.

 

If Eran Efrati fails to sue IDF or the specific soldiers 

for crimes allegedly committed during the last operation in Gaza

I'll have to assume that he just recycled anti-semitic propaganda.

 

I would like to note that

the Israeli legal system is well known in the world for its impartiality and high professional standards.

You may want to research on Aharon Barak, the former president of the supreme court in Israel

to understand what I'm talking about.

 

 

 

Congrats!

You've lost the debate.

According to the rule "The first one to reference the Nazis lose".

 

You don't succeed to rival me intellectually

so you turn to emotion.

 

 

Note that you haven't established that Israel practices anything but self defence.

Furthermore, it is well known that Hamas attacks mainly civilians:

jewish civilians using missiles and bombs 

and arabs by forcing them to serve as human shields.

 

Your failure to account for this establishes that you critisicism is based on anti semitic leanings.

I think you are mistaken. I mentioned the Nazi conquest of the Sudetenland far before this reference. Therefore I obviously lose the argument because there is obviously no comparison between Zionism and the mythology of Hitlerian Naziism regarding the Aryan race and the distinct privileges due the Aryans in lebensraum. No comparison at all. 

Also, since when were Jews a nation? I thought all were welcome in the jewish homeland that you justify retaking through murder? Would they not be citizens also. Or is this an anarchic "state" (ha!) based on judaism as a prerequisite to citizenship  But it's not based on religion, is it?

Or is it? Is it based on lineage? Yes and no. Please show me the conclusive and non-refuted genetic studies that back up your claim of genetic continuity. I have a degree in genetics, so be very careful with what you reference.

As regards your refutation of the references I gave you are really stretching the bounds of discourse. PCR gave solid facts to back up his piece. Also, we have it from the horses mouth of Tzipi and Bibi re: the ownership of the US by the land called israel lobby. Unless you would like to call them anti-semitic also?

In a general sense, I would like to point out a very important facet of your "argument". You seem to be basing your "proposition" on the exclusivity of jews as a distinct group. I am formally labelling you as an anti non-semitic. You have exhibited extreme bias against anyone non-jewish here including an exclusion on the ownership of land in your anarchic "state" of israel based along religious lines or is it cultural or is it genetic? 

You Sir/Madam are a bigot and a racist regarding anyone non-jewish and what is more, you are willingly and actively justify and calling for murder as a legacy of jewish demarcation and "ownership" of land based on fairy-tales.

Now, seeing as you are so carefree in throwing out these accusations, I request that you show quite clearly how your views are not anti non-semitic (jewish to be precise, as Palestinians are also Semites). You are justifying killing not only Palestinians but also any other ethnic group including myself that do not conform to your proposition.

I await your reply.  

[Adam_Min_Hayeshuv]

AdamAll you do is argue from a statist position, saying you're an anarchist does not change that.You bring nation, state (statist), IDF (statist), legal system (statist), Jews (religion), supreme court (statist), and on....Non of these are valid anarchist definitions.I suspect you are trolling and probably from the hasbara, which is the logical conclusion for why you are in this comunity forum.I open to be corrected.

 

Obviously, Israel is a state 

I can not defend it without using statist arguments.

 

The reason I select to defend a state at this forum

is that I suspect that the criticism launched towards Israel

is nothing more than thinly disguised anti-semitism.

 

During this conversation

my concern was enhanced

as I've corrected mistaken notions, introduced new facts,

put forth moral and logical arguments

but the debaters have failed to account for any of this.

 

It is important for me to know

whether anti-semitism or racism in general is supported or condemned in this forum.

[PGP]

Obviously, Israel is a state 

I can not defend it without using statist arguments.

 

The reason I select to defend a state at this forum

is that I suspect that the criticism launched towards Israel

is nothing more than thinly disguised anti-semitism.

 

During this conversation

my concern was enhanced

as I've corrected mistaken notions, introduced new facts,

put forth moral and logical arguments

but the debaters have failed to account for any of this.

 

It is important for me to know

whether anti-semitism or racism in general is supported or condemned in this forum.

I would also like to know if murder/ethnic cleansing/genocide/thievery and anti non-semitism is supported or condemned on this forum.

I have provided multiple referenced sources, arguments and facts that question your proposition to murder/ethnically cleanse/commit genocide/thieve and advocate anti non-semitism. You have not provided any reason or evidence based in any virtuous moral schema, unless of course murder/ethnic cleansing/genocide/thievery and anti non-semitism is part of your morality? All of course based on an iron-age fairy-tale demarcating jews as religiously but not religiously, culturally but not exclusively cultural, genetic but not proven and also not exclusively apart and in any way that matters superior to all non-jews in terms of land ownership in the geographic area of the land(currently expanding) called israel.

Now, are you advocating anti non-semitism or are you not?

Answer the question.

[pretzelogik]

It indeed isn't.

Therefore, in subsequent posts I've changed to defence

as a way to establish the jewish claim on ERETZ YISRAEL.

 

Defence is a legitimate land use,

and therefore, fortifications and natural barriers used for defence

should also be considered homesteaded.

 

I further claim that AM YISRAEL (the nation of Israel) is the legitimate inheritor of this property

when I don't have to assume that there is a genetical continuity between the jews of the 1st & 2nd temple 

and the jewish people today.

But genetic studies on the Non Recombining Y chromes (NRY) found evidence to support genetic continuity.

Could it not be said that current occupiers are using their land as defense?

 

Is the statement about genetic material taken to mran that a blood or DNA test could be used to determine whether a person is part of a nation?

 

Is the government apparatus of Israel funded through taxes?  (I understand a portion of US tax dollars is directed to the Israeli government apparatus.)

[Adam_Min_Hayeshuv]

Could it not be said that current occupiers are using their land as defense?

 

Yes, but it is not their's to begin with.

 

If your neighbour steals your TV set 

and "homesteads" it by connecting it to XBOX

he doesn't become  a legitimate owner.

 

 

 

Is the statement about genetic material taken to mran that a blood or DNA test could be used to determine whether a person is part of a nation?

 

I don't really know

and it doesn't really matter.

 

Conversion in Judaism 

is both to the religion and to the nation.

 

I believe (but I don't really know) that in Islam it is also like that.

 

 

Is the government apparatus of Israel funded through taxes?  (I understand a portion of US tax dollars is directed to the Israeli government apparatus.)

 

US covers about 4% of the Israeli government budget.

This is not a significant contribution

and it cost us a part of our indpendence.

 

For example, in the last Gaza operation

the US pushed for a ceasefire before Gaza strip was cleared of rockets.

This makes the next round inevitable 

which in turn means that all the IDF soldiers casualties died in vain.

 

Therefore, it is my personal opinion

that it would be best for Israel to stop receiving foreign aid from US

and have a relationships of equals with the US.

 

BTW, under anarchy 

it would be harder to exert inter-national pressure on Israel

as there would be no single contact point

and the various PDAs can shift the responsibility  for any action in a circle

(i.e. PDA 1 on PDA2, PDS2 on PDA 3 & PDA 3 on PDA 1...)

 

[J-William]

 a jewish homeland based on non-religious lines and based on lineage but you can convert and also take part and you can be an anarchist but also adhere to a state and you can be in favour of non-violence but you can also kill to secure "property" based on a fairy-tale and oh yes, you can provide a safe haven for all once they give up their land and submit to your legitimacy)

 

ah, you've summed up the argument quite succinctly. 

Also, I'm hearing from various places that Israel is expanding settlements after their latest attack... not like that's a surprise, given that taking all the land has been their aim since 48.

 

if you've ever wondered how nazi soldiers could leave concentration camps and go back to their homes at night to kiss their children and tuck them up in bed then just look at the way Adam justifies murder, torture, harassment, starvation and oppression in Palestine

it is enlightening, and anyone who thinks that jews have some special understanding because of the holocaust... You don't learn philosophy just by being a victim.

 

AdamAll you do is argue from a statist position, saying you're an anarchist does not change that.You bring nation, state (statist), IDF (statist), legal system (statist), Jews (religion), supreme court (statist), and on....Non of these are valid anarchist definitions.I suspect you are trolling and probably from the hasbara, which is the logical conclusion for why you are in this comunity forum.I open to be corrected.

I really wonder why they bother, anarchists aren't likely to vote or support politicians... on the other hand I think Ayn Rand and other pro-Israeli libertarians were quite effective at blunting libertarian opposition to Israel, so perhaps they have experience in this game.

[gausian]

Adam,

What do you say to the claim that IDF was using palestinian as human shields long before Hamas did it?

[Adam_Min_Hayeshuv]

Adam,What do you say to the claim that IDF was using palestinian as human shields long before Hamas did it?

 

They are entitled to claim their case in an Israeli court of law.

 

I find it suspicious that Israelis would use a palestinian men as human shield

knowing fully well how little value life has in the eyes of Hamas.

 

In fact, Hamas equips his armed forces with a manual educating them on how to maximise use civilians against Israel.

http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/08/07/conclusive-proof-that-hamas-uses-palestinians-as-human-shields/

 

Therefore, if an Israeli soldier would use a Palestinian as a human shield

than the Hamas warrior will simply kill both.

 

As I've said before, every possible (& impossible) accusation against Israel was made

and will be continued to be made.

It will also be repeated in the western media.

 

 

Therefore, the wary readers should be critical

and ask themselves whether they tend to accept the information

as it is a convenient rationalisation of their anti-semitic leanings

or because substancial evidence was presented.

 

 

Yet another evidence of Hamas brutality

is given in the source below.

http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/08/11/report-tens-of-terror-tunnel-diggers-executed-by-hamas/

It seems that Hamas executed dozens of tunnel diggers

many of whom are children and some of them are forced laborers.

They used harsh treatment of the diggers even before killing them.

Again, it is extremely unlikely that Hamas would "miss" a chance to kill a jewish person

simply because a few Palestinians are in the way.

[jpahmad]

 

The reason I select to defend a state at this forum

is that I suspect that the criticism launched towards Israel

is nothing more than thinly disguised anti-semitism.

 

 

No, we're launching the criticism towards you.  This is about you.  It seems that you are willing to kill innocent people to re-claim your "property." 

 

Forget defending Israel, you need to defend yourself.