creakins Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Hi Everyone. I have recently gone on a couple of dates with a girl I met on an online dating site. We really hit it off within the first two dates, and have been really able to communicate at a high level of honesty. There was a little red flag that popped up on the first date though that I recognized and said that I would investigate it a little more thoroughly. I do plan on having a conversation about this subject with this girl to see where she stands, but I was hoping to get some clarity before I have this discussion. Here's the issue: She is fiercely loyal to her friends and will back her friends up even if they are making a bad decision. I disagree with this. I would do anything in my power to protect my friends from making bad decisions, even if this meant that I don't take their side. She told me of how her best friend fell in love with a local cuban man while on vacation at a cuban resort. Her friend has never had any luck with men in Canada. When I saw a picture of her friend, I could safely say that she wasn't very physically attractive. But granted, I have not met this woman. I was then showed a picture of the man who she has fallen in love with in Cuba, and heck, although I'm straight, I'd fall for this guy! My initial reaction was to question the motives of this relationship and bring up the possibility of being manipulated to escape an oppressive country. I was told that everyone brings this up, but her friend is madly in love. The cuban man has proposed to this girl, although they have only spent 5 days together in person. If this was my friend, I'd make it clear that there was some hormonal blinding taking place here. I wouldn't let my friend make this decision based on some skype conversations and one trip to a resort. This woman's parents are completely against this union. If I did this, my parents would also be completely against this union because they would want to protect me from this blinding. The fact that her parents are not supportive is causing her a great deal of emotional angst. Personally, she's not my friend. I don't have any information about this woman other than what I've told you here. I also don't feel I have any relationship built with either parties to express my opinion in a way that would matter. That's fine. I had the weekend open this past weekend and had planned to hang out with this new girl. I was really looking forward to it. She bailed on me to be there for her friend who was upset with her parents for not supporting her engagement. She texted me part way through the day just because she was a little bored. Her friend just wanted company while she wallowed in front of the TV on a beautiful sunny sunday summer day. Because this was what the friend wanted, she was going to do it. She could have chosen a day on the beach with a picnic lunch with me, which was the original plan. I felt fine originally about the bailing on the date, but after this text, felt highly annoyed that I was put on the backburner for a TV date. So two things going on here. She is supporting her friend in making a rash decision. She is bailing on me to do this. I plan on having a conversation with this new girl in my life. But I don't know if this is a huge warning sign, or if I should just let this go. My concern is that I will invest the time in getting to know this girl, but any instability her friends experience, will become her instability, in which I am going to have to hear about. Who wants that in their life? Any advice would be hugely appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMX2010 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 How old is the woman you're dating, and how long has she been friends with the chick-engaged-to-Cuban-dude? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinJames Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 What other behaviors is she excusing in her personal relationships? I can't believe this is the only one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wuzzums Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 There's also the possibility that it's her friend that's doing all the manipulation. Knew a girl like this in college, with no will of her own and had a friend which on several occasions declared that a true friend supports your decisions no matter what even if they're bad. A lack of will however can be fixed through self knowledge. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpahmad Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Chris, she sounds immature. I need some more information though. Does she agree with her friends decision to marry the Cuban guy? Or, does she think it's a bit ridiculous as well but is just backing her friend up out of principle (her principle that one should always support friends decisions no matter what). As for her friend. I feel sorry for her. She seems to be setting herself up for misery and pain. It's not anything to encourage and I doubt the sincerity of their friendship. I see four scenarios as of now: She (the girl your interested in) really thinks it's a good idea for her friend to marry this Cuban guy She doesn't think it's a good idea, but is backing her friend up out of principle (even if it is an irrational principle) She gets some kind of sadistic pleasure over seeing other people's lives become train wrecks and entertains herself by going over and being a "shoulder to cry on." She is really immature and hasn't had enough life experience yet to break out of a the "tweeny-bop" mindset that follows some girls well into their 20s. Conclusions for each scenario in respective order: She's an idiot and you should drop her asap She can't differentiate between supporting a friend and supporting a friend's bad decision. Therefore, she has major flaws with her thought process and this will surely lead to future troubles with you. Drop her asap She is dangerous. Drop her asap She may just be completely naive. This could be do to being young or in experienced. This is the best case scenario. You would still have to present the rational argument to her concerning her friends unfortunate choice a soon as possible. Her reaction to that argument will tell you what you need to know. Most likely, she won't like your rational thinking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMX2010 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I don't really agree with the, "Drop her, she may be dangerous!" advice. I think it's best for creakins to practice some very simple RTR here: "I felt abandoned and insulted when you cancelled our date to spend time with girl-engaged-to-Cuban-dude." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cynicist Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I don't have any specific advice, but I want to point out that you have good reason to be concerned. If, in this relationship with her 'friend', she is 'supporting' her by enabling bad decisions and being around her due to a feeling of obligation rather than genuine pleasure, what is that going to mean in your relationship? Will she enable your bad decisions rather than have your back? Is she going to manipulate and resent you? Unless there is some heavy intervention and introspection on her part, I don't see why your relationship with her would be any different. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Dude you don't need a dick punch, you need a Chuck Norris dick punch. So at best, it's temporary insanity you are dealing with here. The ditching your first date to help her friend isn't a bad thing, friends are important. The whole cuban guy marraige thing, after only 5 days is simply insanity. So yeah walk away because you need to. And the reason you need to is for as much of her sake as yours. Because nothing good can ever come out of that marriage if it happens, and the woman you are trying to date will be dragged in as emotional support every time cuban dude cheats, or beats this girl's friend. If she ever clears her head and returns to sanity, she will think more of you for walking away and not enabling her in a self-destructive relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentb Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 What would you count on her for? We all have blind spots, and we're all stupid about some things. I count on my friends and especially my girlfriend to point out anything that I may be missing. If she isn't doing that for her friends, then you can't count on her. At the same time, this issue is in her blind spot, so you might try acting like a friend to her and point it out to her. She may lash out at that, but then you'll have your answer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwen Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 It would be helpful for you to see what the dynamics are between her friend and her. The fact that she messaged you while she was there comforting her friend indicates to me that she was there because she felt obligated to be, not because she enjoyed comforting her friend more than she would have enjoyed with you. It could be that her 'friend' is super dependant and your new girl is a bit of a doormat. If you speak with her more about her relationship with that friend, you may find that it's very one sided with your new girl being used as a sounding board for every drama this friend of hers goes through. Yes, it's a red flag but if she really does communicate with a high degree of honesty, there is a chance she will see things from a different perspective if you speak with her about this. I'm sure if you try and speak with her about this you will figure out pretty quick whether it's worth investing more time in a relationship with her. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creakins Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 How old is the woman you're dating, and how long has she been friends with the chick-engaged-to-Cuban-dude? The woman I am dating is 29 and she has been friends with the "chick-engaged-to-Cuban-Dude" for over 20 years. Hi Everyone, From what I'm gathering, the best course of action is to RTR with her. If being open and honest with her brings about manipulation and anger, I leave, and if she can see the issue with her friend and is truly open and honest, than maybe this is worth pursuing. There are a lot of perspectives here that I really value and I want to thank you all for your insight. I am going to see her this Thursday. I am going to try some RTR and see where it goes, but I think I have to spend a little more time really digesting the fantastic advice here. I asked a friend of mine last night over dinner, and he and his wife said that at this stage in the game, being there for a friend trumps going on a date with some new guy. But their suggestion was to drop it entirely, which obviously, I am unable to do because I am feeling something. I'm feeling scared to be honest. Approaching that fear with honesty is something I should do. Thank you for your support!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMX2010 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 From what I'm gathering, the best course of action is to RTR with her. It always is. I asked a friend of mine last night over dinner, and he and his wife said that at this stage in the game, being there for a friend trumps going on a date with some new guy. But their suggestion was to drop it entirely, which obviously, I am unable to do because I am feeling something. I'm feeling scared to be honest. Approaching that fear with honesty is something I should do. Because you're feeling scared, I'd advise writing down what you need to say, and then practicing it multiple times in front of a mirror. Always, always, always remember the difference between "saying what you feel" - (honesty, good thing) - and "trying to impose your conclusions on others" - (manipulation, bad thing). (I've noticed that the majority of RTR screw-ups happen when someone tries to express their feelings, but what comes out is NOT a feeling; it's a conclusion, or a thought.) If your fear suddenly turns to anger, just remind yourself that practically zero percent of people have been taught how to RTR. So if they lash out, it's 99% likely to be society's fault, or their parent's fault, but only 1% likely to be your fault. Imagine that you're trying to lead her into some foreign and frightening territory. --------------------------- The only sentence I'd recommend you tell her is, "I felt abandoned and insulted when you cancelled our date to spend time with girl-engaged-to-Cuban-dude." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creakins Posted August 13, 2014 Author Share Posted August 13, 2014 It always is. Because you're feeling scared, I'd advise writing down what you need to say, and then practicing it multiple times in front of a mirror. Always, always, always remember the difference between "saying what you feel" - (honesty, good thing) - and "trying to impose your conclusions on others" - (manipulation, bad thing). (I've noticed that the majority of RTR screw-ups happen when someone tries to express their feelings, but what comes out is NOT a feeling; it's a conclusion, or a thought.) If your fear suddenly turns to anger, just remind yourself that practically zero percent of people have been taught how to RTR. So if they lash out, it's 99% likely to be society's fault, or their parent's fault, but only 1% likely to be your fault. Imagine that you're trying to lead her into some foreign and frightening territory. --------------------------- The only sentence I'd recommend you tell her is, "I felt abandoned and insulted when you cancelled our date to spend time with girl-engaged-to-Cuban-dude." Wow! Thank you soo much! I am going to work on that tonight and tomorrow. That is amazingly valuable advice. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regevdl Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 I would say, probe of other irrational defenses she has for her friends. You can start getting to know her or it might end up being a "project" which in the end could be perceived as one trying to change the other. It doesn't sound like you've has many encounters with her and the Cuban -issue is already dominating or effecting your chances to be with her to get to know her. Sounds like her friend is already doing a cock-block for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. D. Stembal Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 After a twenty year friendship, she isn't warning her about getting engaged to a stranger from Cuba? Yeah, there's something strange going on in their relationship. As a general rule, any person who claims to be passionately loyal to their friends is to be treated with a modicum of suspicion. What happens in practice is that they will cast off friends who question them. What they end up with is a bunch of "yes men" in their lives. This twenty year friendship will be a problem for you because they are probably committed to not ever questioning each other's decisions, which means you will become an enemy if you ever start to question or challenge her or her friend. Prepare to have her bail on you many more times in the future, if you choose to stay in the relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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