Struggling with remaining present in day to day life

[BaylorPRSer]

I am having an issue with traumatic experiences preventing me from being present to the degree which I think is acceptable.  I have been journaling, reading books and going to therapy when I can to work on these issues; however, I was curious, if you guys could recommend any resources specific to the idea of being present.  Any recommended works on this particular subject?  

[MysterionMuffles]

Read The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle and A New Earth. I know people are gonna come down on him here for being a self guru hack, but I've found a ton of value in most of what he says about being present and detaching from ego from time to time.

[MMX2010]

Are you still living with (or in close proximity to) the people who traumatized you?

[BaylorPRSer]

Are you still living with (or in close proximity to) the people who traumatized you?

 

I live alone, but still communicate with my parents and have dinner at their place sometimes (live about 30-40 mins away).  They've apologized for most of what they did wrong, but not all.  I'm working on slowly revealing my trauma to them, but I get overwhelmed sometimes.  There was one particular incident that was replaying  in my head that i wanted to talk to my mom about.  She took me out to lunch yesterday, which made for a pretty enjoyable lunch break.  I felt weird bringing up something negative that the person who was paying for my lunch did to me.  I rationalized my way out of bringing it up and decided it was the wrong time.  Hopefully, i don't chicken out for too much longer and talk to her about this.  I'm working on developing the courage to talk to them about some of the darker resentments I have.  For example, they did a piss poor job of getting me ready for adult relationships/sexuality.  All of the religion and their lack of an honest description made me very uncomfortable with sex coming up and this is something I resent having to pay therapists and spend all of this time and anguish undoing as an adult.  This is something that TERRIFIES me of talking about openly with them, but at some point, I know that I must if I'm to continue the relationship with them.  I know I abruptly gave you a lot right there, so sorry if I got off on a tangent.  

Read The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle and A New Earth. I know people are gonna come down on him here for being a self guru hack, but I've found a ton of value in most of what he says about being present and detaching from ego from time to time.

 

I'll snag one of those books.  Thanks for the rec.

[Tony Crowe]

BaylorPRSer,

 

Why do you think traumatic experiences are preventing you from being present?

 

-Tony C.

[BaylorPRSer]

I'll be n public or at work and I'll make a commitment to not think about those things, but they have a way of "invading" my thought life and make it hard to stay on task or hold conversations. I'm sure part of it is that I'm scatter-brained and that's my personality, but I feel pretty strongly that trauma plays into it

[MysterionMuffles]

do you have anyone to talk about these traumas? a therapist or a good friend? there's lots of people here who are at the ready to Skype with another if need be.

[J. D. Stembal]

I live alone, but still communicate with my parents and have dinner at their place sometimes (live about 30-40 mins away).  They've apologized for most of what they did wrong, but not all.  I'm working on slowly revealing my trauma to them, but I get overwhelmed sometimes.  There was one particular incident that was replaying  in my head that i wanted to talk to my mom about.  She took me out to lunch yesterday, which made for a pretty enjoyable lunch break.  I felt weird bringing up something negative that the person who was paying for my lunch did to me.  I rationalized my way out of bringing it up and decided it was the wrong time.  Hopefully, i don't chicken out for too much longer and talk to her about this.  I'm working on developing the courage to talk to them about some of the darker resentments I have.  For example, they did a piss poor job of getting me ready for adult relationships/sexuality.  All of the religion and their lack of an honest description made me very uncomfortable with sex coming up and this is something I resent having to pay therapists and spend all of this time and anguish undoing as an adult.  This is something that TERRIFIES me of talking about openly with them, but at some point, I know that I must if I'm to continue the relationship with them.  I know I abruptly gave you a lot right there, so sorry if I got off on a tangent.  

 

I'll snag one of those books.  Thanks for the rec.

 

You need to say something to your parents about the really troubling aspects. It will make them feel like shit, initially, but you will feel so much better by just airing out the dirty laundry a little. Trust me on this one.

 

You said they've apologized for much of their bad parenting, but what does this mean exactly? In my experience, apologies are mostly used as a social obligation for forgiveness. I apologize so you must forgive me, so I can then forget about it. Have your parents attempted to work on themselves and improve their self knowledge in response to your criticisms? The damage to you is already done. You are the one who gets stuck with trying to fix it. If are getting no where with your parents despite talking to them frequently about your feelings, and they are still actively damaging you emotionally, I would start to think about removing them from your life.

 

I told my dad recently that I tried to kill myself slowly with alcohol because of the loneliness I feel constantly from him not being a strong presence in my early childhood. I don't think I really got to know who he was until I was a teenager despite always living with him. He was out of the house or on the road for years. We both had a good cry about it, and he has been very receptive to everything I have said since then.

[BaylorPRSer]

You need to say something to your parents about the really troubling aspects. It will make them feel like shit, initially, but you will feel so much better by just airing out the dirty laundry a little. Trust me on this one.

 

You said they've apologized for much of their bad parenting, but what does this mean exactly? In my experience, apologies are mostly used as a social obligation for forgiveness. I apologize so you must forgive me, so I can then forget about it. Have your parents attempted to work on themselves and improve their self knowledge in response to your criticisms? The damage to you is already done. You are the one who gets stuck with trying to fix it. If are getting no where with your parents despite talking to them frequently about your feelings, and they are still actively damaging you emotionally, I would start to think about removing them from your life.

 

I told my dad recently that I tried to kill myself slowly with alcohol because of the loneliness I feel constantly from him not being a strong presence in my early childhood. I don't think I really got to know who he was until I was a teenager despite always living with him. He was out of the house or on the road for years. We both had a good cry about it, and he has been very receptive to everything I have said since then.

They fed me ADHD meds when I was young.  They made me very unhappy and antisocial, but they made my grades improve drastically.  After 3 to 4 years of the meds I developed involuntary facial spasms.  These happened multiple times a day, from the 5th grade to my sophomore year of college.  They have apologized for giving me the meds.  Also, my younger brother had some sociopathic tendencies.  He would routinely say things to effect of "Chris, you're stupid", "Chris, you don't have any friends" things like that.  He would seem to make a point of amping up the insults whenever either of our friends were around to cause more embarrassment and push the boundaries of what he could get away with.  Sometimes I regret not beating the shit out of him.  Maybe if I had sent him to the hospital once he would have ceased the verbal abuse.  Having your YOUNGER brother bully you is quite humiliating.  They have apologized for letting him do this for the entirety of my childhood.  

 

Recently I've had an event playing over and over in my head: At the end of my sophomore year at Baylor, I left Waco and returned to Houston immediately after my last final.  I lived in a house of 8 guys (4 rooms with 2 in each room) and I was the only one who left Waco that early.  I was out looking for a summer job when I got a call from one of my housemates:

 

Housemate: "Chris, how are things."

 

Me: "Doing alright, just in Houston looking for a job."

 

Housemate: "Well I've got some bad news.  <other housemate> walked into your room this morning and <My roommate> hung himself on the ceiling fan.  He's dead.  The police are outside right now."

 

I was completely stunned and I think I mumbled something and hung up.  There was a party at my house the night before and <My roommate> left the party to his room b4 it ended.  He was found hanging in the morning.  

 

I had an interview scheduled later that day at a restaurant.  My dad made sure to mention not to talk about my roommate during the interview.  I felt a little pissed off at the implication that I didn't already know telling someone about the fact that you were recently traumatized would make them less inclined to hire me, but whatever.  I put on my happy face (which actually wasn't as hard as you'd think because it took 12 hours for the dam to break loose and I finally started bawling), performed for the interview and got the job.  I went to Waco (I think it was Saturday) to process his death with others that knew him.  That Tuesday (I want to say) he had his memorial service in Arkansas.  His dad was a pastor at a church there where he gave the service.  I attended and played a song that we both enjoyed for everyone at the service.  My Dad flew there and back and attended the service with me.  When I got back to Houston on Wednesday I began training for my waiter job at the restaurant.  I think my first night of training was that Thursday followed by another night on Friday.  I was fired from the job on Friday with the manager citing not putting enough effort into it as the reason (looking back I think i was just sick with grief and distracted).  I had planned on going back to Waco that Friday after the training session because I had people there that I loved being around and thought it would take my mind off of my dead roommate.  I was very excited about going back to Waco and spending the weekend there.  When I got back to my house after getting fired, I started talking to my parents.  When I mentioned that I still intended to go back to Waco, my mom gave me a look of utter disgust (one I'd definitely seen before) and started shouting something to the effect of "with what money"?  Do you expect us to pay for you to go back to Waco so you can party all weekend?  You need to look for a job so you can earn money, so we're not footing the bill for your spending money (we had agreed they'd pay for college, but i'd pay for my spending/gas money).  She was essentially accusing me of being lazy, which was a motif of my childhood.  I don't remember exactly what was said, but the look she gave stained my consciousness and I remember the clear implication that she thought I was lazy and didn't take getting a job seriously (despite the fact that I had managed to get a job, I just failed at keeping it).  I was incredibly angered.

 

This event has been on my mind lately.  I've been procrastinating on bringing it up with her, but I finally did last night over the phone.  She sent this email today and good god are a million things are racing through my head right now:

 

Chris,

 

I have thought about what you shared last night a lot.  You say that after you were fired from Cypress Station (which I assume the timing is such that it was a week or so after you returned from Waco) you wanted to go back to Waco and I gave you a dirty look, and then wouldn’t let you go because I thought you needed to look for a job.   Although I don’t specifically remember the incident, I do remember the time frame.  I remember that we were devastated at what happened to Jordan, and we didn’t really know how to comfort or encourage you.  If I gave you a dirty look, I can promise you that it was NOT because I didn’t love you, value you and care about you.  It would probably have been because I didn’t think the decision you were making was a good one.  I think Dad and I both thought it would be best for you to find a job as soon as possible before it was too late.  It gets harder and harder as the summer goes on.  Maybe that was not a good plan based on what you had been through.  As I recall, you didn’t have much success finding a job, and it was a crappy summer for you.  Finally, toward the end of the summer I suggested working for free at radio or TV stations to get some experience and keep you busy.  I think I thought that if you were busy, you would have less time to be sad.  I am sure that there were many mistakes we made because we just didn’t know what you were feeling or how to fix it.  I am sure that I thought that a second trip to Waco was not a good idea on many levels (I thought, probably wrongly, that we could comfort you better at home, we knew getting a job sooner was going to be better than later, I doubt you had much money).

 

Obviously, that trip to Waco was way more important to you than we thought.  I say we because I was getting pressure from your dad to motivate you to get a job.  And I was trying to protect you from some of the jobs he was suggesting for you.  But again, I have no idea why I would have given you a dirty or mean look.  Chris, I loved you so much and I still do.  I wish you remembered some of the good things I did, like sit on the couch and talk about your day, sing to you at night and/or pray with you, wake you up in the morning with a silly song, have breakfast ready for you when you came down, bring you lunch to school, fix you snacks after school, help you with your homework.  Thankfully, I don’t dwell on all the times you gave me a dirty or mean look or yelled at me or swore at me.  I chalk those up to times when you were angry or frustrated and that you didn’t mean it.  Similarly, when I ever said anything mean to you, it was out of frustration or anger (that doesn’t make it okay).

 

I think you were and still are an amazing, compassionate, loving, loyal, kind human being with a ton to offer.  I am sorry that you have had more than your share of struggles and I keep praying that things are going to change for you - that this next quarter of your life is going to be awesome.  And again, I think you are awesome and I love you, and I am genuinely sorry for anything I ever said that was mean spirited or unkind.  I promise you it was not because I didn’t love you – it was because I am not perfect either!!  But I am trying to improve our relationship, and am enjoying the times we have spent together recently!!

 

Love,

Mom

 

The idea that anything material they provided gave them any say or leverage over my existence pisses me off.  They took an incalculable amount from me with the amount I suffered as a result from the tics/spasms coming up (not to mention other things).  I'm also pissed that they don't understand that making an error to that degree gives me carte blanche to not give a flying fuck what they think.  Also, the fact that my dad was suggesting demoralizing jobs such as loading boxes at a UPS HUB, working at a gas station, etc. just makes him a fucking cocksucker since my roommate just hung himself and all.  I do remember the good things they did and sometimes I sincerely wish that they were just more obvious in their immoral ways.  Because they also did good, their hurts had credibility.  If they were just completely psychotic maybe I at least would have known to avoid them, say fuck school, I"m not taking these damn meds, fuck church, fuck god, fuck pretty much everything.  The good things they did made me more susceptible to being hurt by the bad.  Geez I'm fucking confused.

[J. D. Stembal]

I would focus on the drugging, bullying (your brother likely learned it from them), and accusations of laziness. Your room mate's suicide is tough situation. I can tell that you were close. Do you blame yourself in any way for his death? I think it's telling that you wouldn't share this tragic event with your employer. It might stem from a fear of sharing your troubles with your parents. Do they have a history of using your emotional weaknesses against you?

 

The story about your room mate and finding a job after college is telling, but that is not what this is really about. These are just symptoms of the original problem.

 

I'm so very sorry about the lengthy medication that was probably pushed onto you and your parents by teachers to get you to learn the way they wanted you to learn. As a teen, I was put on Prozac shortly, then Zoloft, and later a very terrible drug called Accutane for acne. If my parents had decided that one of them stay home full time, downsizing our potential expansion for more children in the family (my parents got pregnant a second time but miscarried), I probably wouldn't have been such a sad kid on depression meds. If they had not fed me copious amounts of dairy throughout my childhood, I wouldn't have had the acne. There is a proven correlation between cow milk consumption and skin problems like acne. Pharmaceuticals are literally band aids for symptoms of larger problems that are 100% preventable.

 

If you were allowed to learn in an environment that was better suited to your needs, rather than being forced through medication to be receptive to learning the way the teachers wanted you to learn, you wouldn't feel so robbed in your adulthood. The letter from your mother reminds me of what my father said to me, "Oh, don't you remember all the good times we had like when we went on vacation?" Of course, I remember them. Leaving me virtually fatherless (and mostly motherless) for the first decade of my life is not really a fair trade for a few awesome family summer road trips.

[villagewisdom]

I'll be n public or at work and I'll make a commitment to not think about those things, but they have a way of "invading" my thought life and make it hard to stay on task or hold conversations. I'm sure part of it is that I'm scatter-brained and that's my personality, but I feel pretty strongly that trauma plays into it

 

Stopping yourself from thinking is simply not possible. That's like trying to make your heart stop beating. Additionally, I have never been able to make a commitment to "not" do something and make it stick. The commitments that work for me are to "do" something not to "not do" something.

 

If I think to myself "don't think about monkeys", I immediately think about monkeys just to understand the thought. And then if I think "stop thinking about monkeys", I immediately think about monkeys again. On the other hand, if I say "I'm going to focus on this job interview", I focus on the job interview. And if the thought of monkeys comes to me, I think "I'm going to focus on the job interview.". 

 

I second the Eckhart Tolle recommendation.

 

Also it is my opinion that it is not possible for a personality to be "scatter-brained". I consider it self-attack. We all have the power to choose what we think. We may not know how to exercise that power or are unskilled at making it happen consistently, but we do have it. There are ways to develop concentration skills. It takes practice and may be more difficult for you because of the traumas. But it is certainly within your capabilities. 

 

Sorry for the loss of your roommate. 

[BaylorPRSer]

Mulling all of this over still.  I'll give a detailed response soon.  

[BaylorPRSer]

I would focus on the drugging, bullying (your brother likely learned it from them), and accusations of laziness. Your room mate's suicide is tough situation. I can tell that you were close. Do you blame yourself in any way for his death? I think it's telling that you wouldn't share this tragic event with your employer. It might stem from a fear of sharing your troubles with your parents. Do they have a history of using your emotional weaknesses against you?

 

 

 

The first thing I think of is how my mom would always take my guitar away from me when I didn't work on my homework.  I did have a girlfriend after that event who definitely did that.  The shit she pulled was terrifying, but that was after, maybe I'm unaware of a pattern somewhere?

I've honestly spent a massive amount of time dwelling on the drugging.  I wish it didn't happen it sucks.  I have a tough time with accepting it and moving on.

 

I tried talking to my mom and airing out some of my grievances and she got really defensive saying "how many times do i have to apologize?" "I'm sorry I'm not perfect, but I want to move forward".  The adderall came up during the conversation and she said "how can we ever get anywhere if you don't forgive me for the adderall"

 I just want to be honest about the fact that part of me is stuck in the past and I feel as though she makes me uncomfortable with the fact that i haven't been successful in letting go.  She doesn't really understand that it's not black and white.  I just need to be able to talk calmly about things that piss me off and she makes it kinda tough.  I've got beef with my dad too.  I need to try sharing with him more as well.  

 

[MysterionMuffles]

Been a while since this thread was active, any updates on being present in day to day life, Baylor? I dug this thread up to see if I, or anyone else, has mentioned Eckhart Tolle on the forums as I've been thinking of re-reading The Power of Now. I'd like to know if you ended up getting the book and what you thought about it as a newcomer to it, to compare what your experience is like with it to mine. Re-reading it after getting more into philosophy will prove interesting. I am hoping that it stall stands the test of time (or should I say presence?) and can provide value.

PS your mom sounds very lousy and incapable of taking responsibility for drugging you. This whole "I'm not perfect" thing is a complete avoidance of growth from simply accepting ownership for her mistakes.

[BaylorPRSer]

I checked out the power of now, but didn't finish it. Interestingly enough, I meditated for the first time in a month today. I intend to meditate daily and will report with anything I notice. I also began a book on IFS and have a therapist who is influenced by IFS. I've noticed some results. I'm not quite as consumed with my burdens or "blended" with protectors as I used to be. My renewed commitment to healing has also brought some very intense feelings to the forefront of my mind. I view this as positive as I know that I'm actually working through my traumas, but sometimes it can make being present difficult. I feel meditation may be a way to help me relax even in the midst of fully experiencing past traumas. My commitment to healing has also led me to decide to move to Vietnam and teach English. I will be able to work less and be free from a lot of distractions and triggers I have here n the states that slow down my healing. I'm hoping that taking space for healing will provide me a self-knowledge boost giving me some much needed clarity on some terrifying questions I have. I won't be in Vietnam until fall unfortunately.

[BD91]

Hey, first of all I'm very sorry about the carelessness thrust upon you as a child. You have my sympathies.

 

As for meditation when I first started doing it I would meditate for 20 minutes, and for the first 10 I would have this going along through my headphones because it helped me understand what meditation "is" and what the experience of being present to reality as it is actually feels like. It helped me and I hope it helps you!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HYY4eitC9c

[MysterionMuffles]

I checked out the power of now, but didn't finish it. Interestingly enough, I meditated for the first time in a month today. I intend to meditate daily and will report with anything I notice. I also began a book on IFS and have a therapist who is influenced by IFS. I've noticed some results. I'm not quite as consumed with my burdens or "blended" with protectors as I used to be. My renewed commitment to healing has also brought some very intense feelings to the forefront of my mind. I view this as positive as I know that I'm actually working through my traumas, but sometimes it can make being present difficult. I feel meditation may be a way to help me relax even in the midst of fully experiencing past traumas. My commitment to healing has also led me to decide to move to Vietnam and teach English. I will be able to work less and be free from a lot of distractions and triggers I have here n the states that slow down my healing. I'm hoping that taking space for healing will provide me a self-knowledge boost giving me some much needed clarity on some terrifying questions I have. I won't be in Vietnam until fall unfortunately.

 

Nice. Thanks for the update, man! It looks like you've found a good mix between remembering trauma, but also maintaining your composure so that you can observe it without getting lost and attached to it. I'm not sure to what degree that may be disacociating, as it's recommended to feel your inner child's feelings fully, but if meditating while going with the motions helps you give the space to think about your past traumas better, then I don't see the problem.

 

I would like to know more about what you thought of The Power of Now, unless you mean to say that it inspired the very idea of meditation for you. Because the ego identification Eckhart writes about, now that you mention IFS, I think can go hand in hand with IFS. While the ego he refers to is singular, I think what he really means is all the different roles we identify with, and could really mean the IFS/mecosystem.

[Quadrewple]

I'll be n public or at work and I'll make a commitment to not think about those things, but they have a way of "invading" my thought life and make it hard to stay on task or hold conversations. I'm sure part of it is that I'm scatter-brained and that's my personality, but I feel pretty strongly that trauma plays into it

 

I can relate to this, though I've never made a commitment to not think about those things.  It sounds like you're dealing with CPTSD (Complex PTSD) where you get emotionally triggered by events which are hard to pinpoint.  Complex PTSD usually arises out of very long-term traumas like child abuse, prisoners of war, etc.  It is possible that if you didn't aggressively try to stop the negative thoughts or feelings you would have an emotional flashback which is an emotional re-experiencing of the trauma.  In the past couple of months I've started to have them in therapy and it's extremely painful - for me I start sobbing uncontrollably, large sections of my body start to go numb and the best way I could describe it would be hell on Earth. 

 

In order for me to get to a point where I could let my guard down enough to have the flashbacks took years of therapy and building trust with my therapist.  For years I had an inability to accept how damaged I was and was constantly projecting my severe anxiety onto others, which meant I had to rationalize my constant emotional triggers as a normal part of the human experience (which they are not).  I'm not saying this is the case with you, but IMO the best thing you can do is continue to go to therapy and build trust with the therapist.

 

This guy has some really great videos on mental health and complex PTSD which I would highly recommend - https://www.youtube.com/user/SPARTANLIFECOACH/videos

[BaylorPRSer]

Excited to check out these vids guys.

Nice. Thanks for the update, man! It looks like you've found a good mix between remembering trauma, but also maintaining your composure so that you can observe it without getting lost and attached to it. I'm not sure to what degree that may be disacociating, as it's recommended to feel your inner child's feelings fully, but if meditating while going with the motions helps you give the space to think about your past traumas better, then I don't see the problem.

 

I would like to know more about what you thought of The Power of Now, unless you mean to say that it inspired the very idea of meditation for you. Because the ego identification Eckhart writes about, now that you mention IFS, I think can go hand in hand with IFS. While the ego he refers to is singular, I think what he really means is all the different roles we identify with, and could really mean the IFS/mecosystem.

 

What I think now about meditation and the mecosystem is that meditation is a trick for accessing the self.  Meditation I think correlates with IFS in that when you get in the habit of clearing your mind, you effectively are habitually unblending from your protectors.  I think the follow up work is what Eckhart Tolle might be less keen on.  After you unblend (in Tolle's context this would be redirecting to the object of meditation) what you do from there is up to you.  Now that you're in self you can objectively examine the protectors you were blended with without getting flooded.  I think meditation trains you to stay in self, but the follow up self-examination while you are in self is where the IFS comes in.  Is that making sense?