NigelW Posted August 19, 2014 Posted August 19, 2014 I would be fascinated to see what the implications are... http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/amp/69/1/66/ Has anyone, who is trained in this topic, explored this?
lbnuke Posted August 22, 2014 Posted August 22, 2014 I'm glad to see that psychology is considering taking a positive approach to video gaming and putting forward, what appears to be, a method to explore the benefits in a positive way. I have found that most people, myself included, have a negative view of video games when it comes to children spending their time in front of a screen vs. doing academic work. Additionally, I've found that my thoughts aren't based on any fact... other than the fact that my son get REALLY upset when video game or tv time is up, which is a related, but separate issue. As for Minecraft, I'm of the opinion that god mode in Minecraft (all weapons, tools, etc. and infinite life) is not beneficial to my son (4 years old). He spawns zombies by hatching their eggs, then kills them. He does this for hours. I've tried encouraging him to build rather than destroy, but he still resorts to killing zombies. One potential solution is to turn off god mode and allow the zombies to attack him. I'm thinking that if the zombies can actually hurt him, he will be more scared of them and not approach them until he is equipped to handle them. Anyone have any thoughts on my approach or care to share another? I really enjoy that Minecraft provides the experiences, as communicated in the video posted by luxfelix. There are some benefits that outweight the real world experiences because the child can take chances and die in the game, whereas taking those same chances in real life would result in injury to themselves or to others. Add this to the fact that the game can be played online within a community, and I'm reconsidering my position. I welcome the feedback!!
tasmlab Posted August 22, 2014 Posted August 22, 2014 That video was better than I expected. I'm raising two Minecraft addicts right now. Glad they are going to save the world.
luxfelix Posted August 23, 2014 Posted August 23, 2014 I'm glad the video was well received LoganB. and tasmlab. He spawns zombies by hatching their eggs, then kills them. He does this for hours. Hmm... If there's no challenge, then maybe he enjoys the easy repetition itself or feeling powerful? I dunno, ask him.
NigelW Posted August 24, 2014 Author Posted August 24, 2014 Some statistics from the Entertainment Software Association: http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/esa_ef_2014.pdf One of the notable statistics in my opinion are on the percentage of people who play Social Games (30%) of the market. Next are Puzzle Games (28%).
Ace Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 I've played Minecraft a few times and it is scary even to an adult! You're walking along and one of those guys that blows up comes up and you aren't paying attention and it shocks the hell out of you. Or you go down into the underground caves, you can't see, and skeletons appear out of nowhere, jump scares all over the place. I tend to think that trying to discern negative or positive effects from video games is just so difficult, maybe even impossible. If they even do have an effect one way or the other, how do you isolate that from all the other factors in a young person's life? I think a lot of games could be of benefit if you used it as a teaching tool. I remember we got a new computer and it came with Sim City 2000, this would have been in maybe 1995 so I was 8 or 9. I played it, but a large portion of the game was just over my head. I would do the building part, but the actual management of the city, setting the tax rates, issuing bonds, etc. etc. I didn't understand any of that. If someone was helping me understand that it might have been valuable. But I just played the games myself, my parents never took any interest in it. So a lot of it was just messing around, not playing the game with an objective. So it all depends on the game and how it's played. Some games are specifically designed to be educational, some require a lot of thinking and strategy, others are pretty mindless. So any conclusion a study could make would have to be very specific. People want really broad ones, but it's like saying whether watching TV is good or bad for kids. Well, it depends what they're watching.
NigelW Posted August 25, 2014 Author Posted August 25, 2014 I've played Minecraft a few times and it is scary even to an adult! You're walking along and one of those guys that blows up comes up and you aren't paying attention and it shocks the hell out of you. Or you go down into the underground caves, you can't see, and skeletons appear out of nowhere, jump scares all over the place.I tend to think that trying to discern negative or positive effects from video games is just so difficult, maybe even impossible. If they even do have an effect one way or the other, how do you isolate that from all the other factors in a young person's life?I think a lot of games could be of benefit if you used it as a teaching tool. I remember we got a new computer and it came with Sim City 2000, this would have been in maybe 1995 so I was 8 or 9. I played it, but a large portion of the game was just over my head. I would do the building part, but the actual management of the city, setting the tax rates, issuing bonds, etc. etc. I didn't understand any of that. If someone was helping me understand that it might have been valuable. But I just played the games myself, my parents never took any interest in it. So a lot of it was just messing around, not playing the game with an objective.So it all depends on the game and how it's played. Some games are specifically designed to be educational, some require a lot of thinking and strategy, others are pretty mindless. So any conclusion a study could make would have to be very specific. People want really broad ones, but it's like saying whether watching TV is good or bad for kids. Well, it depends what they're watching. I can see your point. We need a place to start if you're going to study something. I think a good place to start would be professional video gaming. A league hosts gaming competitions. Leagues receive money from sponsors who want to market their products to gamers. This money is used as cash prizes to tournament winners. Leagues also receive money from charging an entry fee for competitors. The effect of seeing someone making enormous amounts of money winning video game tournaments is certainly enough to make me second guess my job. Hah! What do you suppose the implications of this are?
Ace Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 That's big in Korea. I think it get's pretty raw and the fun is lost. It almost becomes mathematical. In a game like StarCraft they would have it worked out to a science, the best possible strategy taking into account all the factors. There's a big difference between playing games against other people vs. the computer. But to become one of the best requires such an incredible time investment. And I don't know that at that level there's so much value other than towards being better at the game itself. In something like Counterstrike, it involves a lot of hand eye coordination, reaction time, etc. and obviously the more you practice that the better you'll get. But it's a pretty narrow skill to learn. I could be wrong maybe it makes you better at sports or something. But, I think one of the key things in judging the value of a certain activity for children is whether it helps them develop skills that are transferable to other endeavors they will pursue. I think that abstract casts a pretty wide net when it comes to video game playing. They say 97% of kids play over an hour of video games a day? That seems really high to me. I'd have to believe a lot of that includes the pretty mindless "time killer" tablet/smartphone games like Angry Birds and Candy Crush. Not exactly ones requiring really deep strategic thinking.
luxfelix Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 But, I think one of the key things in judging the value of a certain activity for children is whether it helps them develop skills that are transferable to other endeavors they will pursue. Improv games! There's no better game(s) I know that encourages empathy, creative thinking, and confidence in overcoming the unknown like improv! How's that for transferable skills?
hannahbanana Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 Improv games! There's no better game(s) I know that encourages empathy, creative thinking, and confidence in overcoming the unknown like improv! How's that for transferable skills? Do you mean improv games as in improvisational comedy, or video games that are open world, involving a lot of personal initiative? I love doing both, but I'm curious for the sake of clarity
luxfelix Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 Do you mean improv games as in improvisational comedy, or video games that are open world, involving a lot of personal initiative? I love doing both, but I'm curious for the sake of clarity That's right, specifically improvisational acting (as seen in Who's Line is it Anyways!?), though I can see similar qualities in open world video games like Minecraft as mentioned before.
Ace Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 Grand Theft Auto is a pretty open world game, is that beneficial? I think that's a really interesting question. GTA V sold something like 12 million copies within 24 hours of release. It's beyond violent, it's incredibly sick and twisted - the one character Trevor you can play is a psychopathic serial killer. There's strategy involved, especially in GTA V, you do your heists and can choose to plan them in different ways, hire different characters to help you, etc. You can play it online and you interact with others that way. So is the content important? I mean there are millions of young kids who have played it even though it's supposed to be 18+. Or maybe it's just entertainment and there isn't that much effect? I thought GTA V was a lot of fun and played lots of other violent games when I was a kid. Sometimes I wonder whether it has an impact, or, whether the desire to play those sorts of games is the result of some common type of experience in childhood. But they're so popular and widespread that it seems tough to believe there is some common thread there. The one thing is that it's much more a male thing.
hannahbanana Posted August 26, 2014 Posted August 26, 2014 That's right, specifically improvisational acting (as seen in Who's Line is it Anyways!?), though I can see similar qualities in open world video games like Minecraft as mentioned before. Ah, okay. I do improvisational comedy, and it is probably the best thing I have ever done (except maybe joining FDR, hahaha ). I agree, it has given me SO many benefits, including confidence in social situations, trust, and cooperation with others. 10/10 would recommend it to others
inquirius Posted August 26, 2014 Posted August 26, 2014 Video games are fine, as long as they aren't being used to replace parenting. For as bad as some parents say video games are, they're perfectly willing to put their kids in front of video games for indeterminate amounts of time, go do something they actually want to do and neglect the kid, and then blame or harass their kid about playing too many video games when they return from their night out or whatever. Parents using video games as electronic babysitters is the real problem. The reality is, if they were doing any kind of decent job as a parent, their kid wouldn't want to play video games so much.
NigelW Posted August 26, 2014 Author Posted August 26, 2014 Video games are fine, as long as they aren't being used to replace parenting. For as bad as some parents say video games are, they're perfectly willing to put their kids in front of video games for indeterminate amounts of time, go do something they actually want to do and neglect the kid, and then blame or harass their kid about playing too many video games when they return from their night out or whatever. Parents using video games as electronic babysitters is the real problem. The reality is, if they were doing any kind of decent job as a parent, their kid wouldn't want to play video games so much. I think an evil person deciding to have children is a bigger problem. You can't undo crazy.
inquirius Posted August 26, 2014 Posted August 26, 2014 Well right, just in the context of video games I mean.
NigelW Posted August 26, 2014 Author Posted August 26, 2014 I experienced fear when you first posted.
luxfelix Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 Grand Theft Auto is a pretty open world game, is that beneficial? I think that's a really interesting question. GTA V sold something like 12 million copies within 24 hours of release. It's beyond violent, it's incredibly sick and twisted - the one character Trevor you can play is a psychopathic serial killer.There's strategy involved, especially in GTA V, you do your heists and can choose to plan them in different ways, hire different characters to help you, etc. You can play it online and you interact with others that way.So is the content important? I mean there are millions of young kids who have played it even though it's supposed to be 18+.Or maybe it's just entertainment and there isn't that much effect? I thought GTA V was a lot of fun and played lots of other violent games when I was a kid. Sometimes I wonder whether it has an impact, or, whether the desire to play those sorts of games is the result of some common type of experience in childhood. But they're so popular and widespread that it seems tough to believe there is some common thread there. The one thing is that it's much more a male thing. You're right in that it sold many copies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games#All_platforms Can it be beneficial? I imagine it could be... We don't typically view anger as a good emotion, but it is a step up from depression; likewise, GTA V could be a way to release steam before moving on to something else. Since you have experience playing it, maybe you could describe the reason(s) you played it and what you gained from the experience? You mentioned you had fun so I'm guessing you benefited, even while recognizing that some of the characters have questionable moral codes... If you're interested, the following video explores some of the dynamics of game design and the resulting player interactions (fair warning, it gets kinda dark...):
Ace Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 You're right in that it sold many copies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games#All_platforms Can it be beneficial? I imagine it could be... We don't typically view anger as a good emotion, but it is a step up from depression; likewise, GTA V could be a way to release steam before moving on to something else. Since you have experience playing it, maybe you could describe the reason(s) you played it and what you gained from the experience? You mentioned you had fun so I'm guessing you benefited, even while recognizing that some of the characters have questionable moral codes... If you're interested, the following video explores some of the dynamics of game design and the resulting player interactions (fair warning, it gets kinda dark...):I think it's probably a similar reason to why action movies and fighting sports are so popular, mostly among men. There's something we find exciting about danger, risk taking, etc.If you play the missions in a game like GTA V there's an objective, just like in a boxing match there's an objective. The acting out of violence for it's own sake such as in that video is different. In a game like GTA, if you want to, you can just roam the streets shooting random people, but it doesn't further anything or reward you. If a person does that repeatedly in a game for enjoyment in and of itself, I'd see something sadistic and dangerous about that. Shooting at someone who is shooting back at you is one thing, but finding enjoyment in being able to inflict violence against someone who can't defend themselves is a worrying impulse.I wouldn't say I take anything from the game other than entertainment. It's realistic in some ways but pretty absurd in others. In GTA everything is over the top and a major component is a heavy satire on the shallowness and emptiness of modern society. There's a lot of humour and wit, that's one thing I enjoy about it. It's really fast paced during the action sequences, so there's probably some kind of mild adrenaline rush from it.Just a theory... But I tend to think that a child raised in a supportive and non-abusive environment would probably not find these sort of games attractive. I have some younger cousins, aged around 10-14 now, and my aunt and uncle are pretty good and enlightened parents. I've heard them yell at the kids once or twice in the past but I'm almost certain they've never hit them. They actually negotiate with their kids. A few years back I was over there for a family get together and a few of us were watching a UFC fight on TV in the basement and a couple of the kids came downstairs - they weren't interested in it at all. In fact I could tell they were kind of repulsed, one of them said "man that's stupid why would two guys want to beat each other up and get hurt?" Or if we're watching hockey, they'll remark that they don't see what the point of the fights are. They still play video/computer games, but ones like Minecraft, lego games, pokemon, etc. Violence doesn't have any cache or currency to them. They've never had it demonstrated as an acceptable option for dealing with disputes.Having the ability to perform violence is glamourized and held up as a sign of agency for men in society - Not necessarily in a negative way such as to victimize, but in good or perceived good ways such as to protect yourself or others. I trained in muay thai kickboxing for a number of years and thinking back I really don't believe I did it because it was fun, but rather because I saw value in becoming tougher. Not the same as games or depictions, but I think there's a connection for sure. If we don't develop it in ourselves, we look up to professional fighters or characters in movies and games who possess those traits. Probably relating to feelings of insecurity or powerlessness from childhood? Just brainstorming, I could be making it all up.
luxfelix Posted August 28, 2014 Posted August 28, 2014 I think it's probably a similar reason to why action movies and fighting sports are so popular, mostly among men. There's something we find exciting about danger, risk taking, etc.Having the ability to perform violence is glamourized and held up as a sign of agency for men in society - Not necessarily in a negative way such as to victimize, but in good or perceived good ways such as to protect yourself or others. I trained in muay thai kickboxing for a number of years and thinking back I really don't believe I did it because it was fun, but rather because I saw value in becoming tougher. Not the same as games or depictions, but I think there's a connection for sure. If we don't develop it in ourselves, we look up to professional fighters or characters in movies and games who possess those traits. Probably relating to feelings of insecurity or powerlessness from childhood? Just brainstorming, I could be making it all up. Yep, I can certainly relate to that. I would also liken it to the hero's journey as described by Joseph Campbell in The Hero with a Thousand Faces where we enter these other worlds and return with boons that benefit us in our conscious/waking lives.
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