Coworkers and religion

[NigelW]

I'm interested to know how some people are dealing with this issue.

 

In a conversation with a coworker who was a Mormon he started talking about how the truth that you know for yourself and the conviction derived from it is all that matters.

 

I made an emotional argument that when people get together they can voluntarily redefine terms.

 

Example, redefining 1 as 2, the sound and symbol, not the quantity.

 

I definitely did not want to get into a debate about religion at work so I avoided the shit out of it.

 

Is this cowardice?

[A__]

There's a reason you didn't want to debate religion and I wouldn't call it cowardice. Especially at work, earning a living. For most people working ie being trapped most of your waking hours in a place you'd rather not be, with people you'd prefer not to be with, doing something you'd rather not be doing is hard enough. Why make it even more difficult especially when there's no invitation, no glimmer of hope from those coworkers? It sounds like you tried though. 

[nathanm]

He is accurately describing how most of the world operates: thinking whatever the hell you want and feeling a strong conviction about it.  Not ever worrying about any objective truth outside of yourself or the fact that you might be wrong about something.  I think everyone wants to FEEL right, but not everyone wants to actually BE right.  We all want the same thing, but religious people are skipping the error-correction step and jumping directly to "Hey, I'm right!"

 

It is quite sad that a religious person can feel so much less social anxiety by mentioning religion in conversation whereas the atheist feels like they must be all deferential and diplomatic about it.  It's lame.  I am not sure if its cowardice or being sensible, but people that actually want to BE right about the world shouldn't be the ones feeling social anxiety when they open their mouths.

[endostate]

I'm interested to know how some people are dealing with this issue.In a conversation with a coworker who was a Mormon he started talking about how the truth that you know for yourself and the conviction derived from it is all that matters.

It appears your coworker thinks truth is subjective (opinions).  Here's a way to test that theory, tell him the book of Mormon was written by Gary Smith.When he tries to correct you, insist you know it was Gary Smith and simply ask, "isn't the truth that I know for myself, and the conviction derived from it, all that matters?"He may then see the relevance of objective truth (facts).

[Matt H]

It's all I can do to talk about the weather with people like this, once I know they are the way they are. Everything about an interaction with them is such a waste of time - you'll rarely make a real connection with these type of people. I like endostate's idea. If that doesn't shake him, loose, I wouldn't spin your wheels too much more.

 

All that said, I've had a couple of these in the recent past that I have unloaded some heavy philosophy on, and then walked away. The realness and truthfulness of it couldn't get out of their head, so they keep coming back asking me more questions. Its funny - they tell me I'm wrong, but they're still so fascinated by what I say that they have to come back again. So you never know....

[NigelW]

I feel like calling those types of people out, but that would ignore the evidence. They don't want to change and trying to change them is hypocritical because the principle 'emotional acting out is bad' must be broken to correct someones emotional acting out.

 

I think its justifiable to, if one is in a bind with a religious person, spew crazy shit back.

 

I could start narrating my morning coffee or completely ignore what they said.

[Pepin]

If you are to debate someone who is religious at your workplace you must accept the various consequences, such as: having to interact with the person on a continual basis with the subject matter always hanging in the air; potentially being reported for religious intolerance; degrading your happiness at work; and opening up potentially unwanted discussion on the subject with other coworkers. It is perfectly acceptable to discuss this subject matter with your coworkers, but be aware of the risks.

 

There is no obligation to debate someone. There is a large difference between debating strangers, debating friends, and debating coworkers. In the case of friends and strangers, if the conversation ends up poorly, you can break ties and never talk to them again. The effect that this can have on you is limited, at least in terms of time. In the case of a coworker, provided that neither of you switch jobs or positions due to the debate, if it ends poorly you are stuck in a pretty awful situation.

 

You have to be very calculative in what you say, who you say it to, and the topics you discuss with others. I may choose to talk about anarchy with one of my coworkers after long discussions and reassurance that my views will not comprise my relation with the coworker, and that they will not be discussed with others without my permission. I am likely not to choose to talk about anarchy with someone who will berate me, tell others that I said I despise poor people and want a system that will kill them off because I am a social darwinist, and who will make coming into work the last thing I want to do.

 

My advice, think about yourself, and less about others in these circumstances.

[Ace]

I tend to avoid such things at work in most situations. If you get to know someone better you can be a little more open. I work with one guy who is close to my age. He's not religious, he likes to party and hook up with random women all the time. But once we were traveling together and the topic of religion came up and he said "I think it's bullshit but it's good for kids to go to church". And I challenged him on that a bit but realized pretty quick there wasn't any value to be gained from pressing it.

 

It's nice to have people at work with whom we're friendly, but at the end of the day we're there to make money. So in a sense work relationships are an obligation. If you had someone in your personal life that you considered a really close friend who was ardently religious and you didn't challenge them on it and continued to spend lots of time with them by choice, I think that would be cowardly. I work with people who are terrible human beings but I still have to get along with them. I don't hang out with them outside of work, but I'm friendly to them, they're friendly to me, and I don't see that as me being a hypocrite. It's impossible to completely avoid that in any job.

 

I think the important thing to work on is to be consistent with values in our personal lives. I wouldn't even bother arguing with someone unless I had got to know them pretty well and had some notion that they are open to reason. Changes to society don't come by making arguments as Stef says in a lot of podcasts. People aren't religious, statist, abusive, etc. etc. because they've made a logical and rational calculation that that is the best course to take.

 

I really don't encounter very much religious or political conversation at work. I'll sort of put in my two cents on something if asked but there's just absolutely nothing to be gained from passionately advocating my position, much more the potential to lose something. Religious people love to go whining to HR...