Jaromor Posted September 1, 2014 Posted September 1, 2014 (My apology if there is already a similar thread.) I wonder what was the moment for you when you went "WTF is this $hit? Why is my government acting like I'm its property?"
Devon Gibbons Posted September 1, 2014 Posted September 1, 2014 2004 election when I was like 12, hardened by one year of middle school. I watched the 2004 primaries; Nader had a good speech about something or other [wasn't really into politics]. I was impressed. He said voting for Bush OR Kerry would still result in war. My family protested the Iraq war in 2001 on a street corner, and I thought she would agree with his points, but the mind-fuck of it came when she said "independents never win, it's a waste of a vote. They take the votes of those who would be smarter to vote Democrat". I knew something was up, at least that my mom had no principles. Regarding property, I suppose I saw that my mom was enslaved by the voting system and was irrational. 1
J. D. Stembal Posted September 1, 2014 Posted September 1, 2014 Voting for Harry Browne in 2000 and getting Bush Jr, instead, then hearing my fellow college students blame independents for throwing away their votes. However, I didn't understand that all votes are wasted effort until much later. One year later, we have 9/11, then one month later, the Patriot Act. Bye-bye, freedom, but I'm not sure that we ever really had it - not in our lifetimes anyway.
Jaromor Posted September 1, 2014 Author Posted September 1, 2014 For me it was something rather insignificant. In the most recent census in my country people were asked to reveal stuff like "how many of this/that you own, how large is your kitchen?"... And what made me anrgy (+ignore the census) was that there was a threat of penalty (cca $500) if you don't hand the information requested. I don't know of anyone actually being subject to any penalty but I was ready (lol, I believed I was) to keep refusing to obey anything that might come, even if it meant I end up in jail. Ofc. no penalty ever landed on my head so my determination did not get tested, but I was "on my way" anyways... That was when I realized we are a property of the state. I wish I knew the right words to express how absurd this is when talking to people. I don't think any words could turn me over few years ago.
King David Posted September 1, 2014 Posted September 1, 2014 For me, it was when I considered that women oppress women's sexuality more than men do. Bare with me this goes around a little http://www.femininebeauty.info/suppression.pdf I was getting a lot of sun during a summer and started noticing my skin improving. I started sunbathing nude and my whole body began to change. First I thought: well doctors don't know shit, sun cannot be bad for you. Second I thought: wait, mankind has been farming basically in the nude for the last 30 000 years, before that we evolved in the nude and now our culture has suddenly demonized the human form on a large scale, that cannot be a good thing. Why has mankind rejected his form? Answer: to reduce women's accidental hypergammy. Actually this process began when the Bible was conceived, ie. the fall from Eden, it is just now that modernity has made restrictive clothing so widely available for the bourgeois. THE MARCH OF CULTURE is complete, it is Lululemon tights, makeup, and french manicures, there are of course some ancillary developments in this evolution, not the least of which is the creation of the state. I hope you enjoy your culture because the cost is your freedom, health, and the bulk of your potential. That is when I hit the internet with a vengeance, I would not stop until I figured it all out. I stumbled onto Mr. Molyneux and Stardusk and never looked back. KD
Cosmin Posted September 1, 2014 Posted September 1, 2014 2009: after a huge real-estate boom in my country, prices were really plummeting. When they were about half of the peak level, the government announced they would introduce a loan-guaranteeing scheme "in order to help young people buy a home". Of course the prices fell much slower after that, and I knew the state was not interested in helping the people, they just wanted to help the banks. I also noticed that almost nobody saw that truth. I began researching, I eventually found Peter Schiff and then Stefan. 1
shirgall Posted September 1, 2014 Posted September 1, 2014 (My apology if there is already a similar thread.) I wonder what was the moment for you when you went "WTF is this $hit? Why is my government acting like I'm its property?" Believe it or not it was when I was so disgusted with George HW Bush. His first strike was the 1989 import ban on foreign-manufactured semi-automatic rifles, and the deal was sealed with this one statement "No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." This led to supporting H. Ross Perot in 1992, and to becoming a libertarian. I joined the Libertarian Party of Oregon, served in a few positions there, and even ran for office in southwest Portland, OR. When the county imposed an income tax, and made it retroactive, I fled to Washington state. More recently I was a Ron Paul delegate to the county Republican Party. However, my suspicions started when I began reading L. Neil Smith science fiction when I was younger. "The Nagasaki Vector" had me hooked, and "Tom Paine Maru" got me looking for his other material. The basic idea is branching time streams and the ability to move between them... and some of them had ancap histories. A key branch point: Gallatin deciding to join the rebels instead of the government during the Whiskey Rebellion, see "The Gallatin Divergence". And if that isn't enough for the creepers to figure out who I am, I dunno, since I use the same avatar and username all over the place.
K.o.t.H. Posted September 1, 2014 Posted September 1, 2014 The experiment of the 20th Century Motor Company.
cobra2411 Posted September 1, 2014 Posted September 1, 2014 I don't know that I had any great "wake up" moments. Most were small, but one of the earliest that I can remember was reading Peter McWilliam's book "Ain't nobody's business if you do". It's a book on the absurdity of consensual crimes - drugs, prostitution, etc. I remember thinking it was such a simple concept - what consenting people do is between them; I couldn't understand how something so simple could get so corrupted. I still can't. Take the case of the UK boy being treated for brain cancer. His parents wanted a different treatment and sought it out; yet the state enforced the will of the doctor over the parents. There are people who would argue that the state absolutely has that right in this case - "The boy is sick and needs care!" I usually ask to what end the state has the power - if you break your leg and the state determines you need it amputated can they just cart you off at gunpoint if you refuse because you'd rather have a cast? The answer is usually that I'm being absurd because there is no logical way for them to answer. They want their way when it suits them and they enjoy the power of the states guns behind them. The idea that the state will turn against them is foreign to them. Sometimes I wish I didn't have a wakeup moment when I look around and see the level of apathy that exists. It comes out that Apple has a way to spy on users of iPhones and that it bypasses any security you place on the phone and it was hidden. I didn't see any stories following that of people trading in their phones the next day... Nope, they just shrug their shoulders and keep right on going. 1
Jaromor Posted September 1, 2014 Author Posted September 1, 2014 Take the case of the UK boy being treated for brain cancer. They actually wanted to bring him to where I live. And just yesterday I "made a fool of myself" by commenting that I can't wrap my head around the concept of "parents kidnapping their children", which is how our news described the events. Sometimes I wish I didn't have a wakeup moment Yh, I have to admit I got a bit more annoyed with the world since I had mine.
Anuojat Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 19 tough questiosn for libertarians by Jon Steward. I was angry at Stefs face but i knew not why. I was not lisening and yet he made some good points. Then i realized after awhile that which had elad me out or relifion to atheism was poking me again. REASON was poking my eardrums again and this time about the state... and it was truly easy to lisen this time around since ive had already gone trough the more emotional journey form religious to atheist. ^^ Also because everyone at TYT was blaming conservatives and makign fun of them like celebrety magazines look for scandals instead of offering good or actual arguements of what to do. No principles jsut opinions. 1
Bedouin Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 Single wake up moment? I can't remember, so I doubt I had one. It was a gradual process. I always leaned in this direction that I do now but just didn't follow it all through to a logical conclusion until some of the more irrational areas of mine were shown to be irrational. I guess though that when my friend and I started researching the fall of the towers on 9/11; that would have been illuminating for me. It made me realise that maybe the government ain't all that nice. That was back in 2008 or so though, and I've only just discovered FDR and imbibed an understanding and knowledge of voluntarism since about 2013. I didn't even know what a free-market was until about 2012 lol. No one told me. Of course, I already knew exactly what the bourgeoisie were though. Yuck. Speaks volumes about living and learning in the UK really.
PatrickC Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 The most memorable moment I had was whilst listening to one of Stef's podcast. I cannot recall which one it was, as it was back in 2008 sometime. But I do remember the general gist of it. He was discussing the idea that the govt is fictitious and only gleams it's power from the subservience of the citizens that grants special privileges to certain individuals, such as the police. As I was listening to this, I was on a bus on my way home, when two ladies jumped onto the back of the bus as the doors were closing. One of them got her bag caught in the sliding doors and was trying to yank it free, whilst the other one raced up to the driver. It was at that point that I pulled my earphones out, as they were both screaming at the driver to stop the bus. It was only once they started screaming POLICE, POLICE! that it dawned on me that they were undercover cops. Anyway these idiot cops decided to get the driver out of his cab and proceeded to reprimand him for not listening to him and started threatening him with arrest. It was only once their colleagues arrived in some undercover BMW that they just jumped into the back of it as the driver raced off. Needless to say the driver was a little shook up and kept saying, 'I had no idea they were the police'. I was like, 'wow', did I just see something that exemplified what Stefan was saying in that podcast, right before my bleedin eyes.
Magenta Posted September 26, 2014 Posted September 26, 2014 Reddit controversy over Ron Paul got me reading about Ron, woke me up partially. I knowingly put aside further research temporarily to help the 2012 presidential campaign. Worked my ass off as county leader and supporting division leader and state leader. Drove to Iowa with the official campaign to help caucus. Once my county was won, I had more free time and began researching further. Listened to lots of audio content on Mises.org when I came across Jeffrey Tucker's audiobook "It's a Jetsons World", narrated by Stef. Thought to myself, "this narrator is the best I've ever heard. I must listen to more from him". Googled him and found that not only does he narrate audiobooks, he has his own content - YAY! Read further ... he's controversial in the Ron Paul group for being critical of Ron Paul ... it would be good to expose myself to a different perspective, especially from a guy who has some credibility as a Mises.org narrator and libertarian thinker. Most shocking thing to happen in my life. Listened first to all of the episodes that had "Ron Paul" in the description, which blew my mind, then I started at podcast 1 and went forward.
corbyco Posted September 26, 2014 Posted September 26, 2014 It was when I came to America. In the UK I was a socialist through and through - thinking how could anyone not want to give money to the poor and needy? Yeah naive as they come. Very soon after arriving here I started to read and hear about peoples passion for the constitution and liberty. I then began to listen to Stefan and read more about the simple facts that the welfare state and government intervention actually makes things worse not better. I am now a pure free marketer and see that I have been used and abused by the state. I think I am at the stage of a low level form of minarchism - struggling with going the final step.
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