Join me in a thought experiment about the future.

[yagami]

So I started thinking about what the future would look like and although I know my imagination can only go so far this is what I see eventually happening. In the future there will be no jobs because we will eventually figure out exactly how the human mind works. Once we know how the human mind works exactly we will be able to reproduce the human mind digitally. Currently this is completely impossible due to both a lack of computing power (which im sure we will over come in the future) and because of a lack of understand how all this power works inside our heads. Once we get that going we will be able to take all the creative aspects of the human mind and augment them. Which would make computers eventually more creative then humans. Again the only reason this is not possible now is because we really have no clue how a lot of human body functions. So with the invention of the synthetic brain all of science music art can done by robots essentially. There will also be no jobs because eventually we will become so efficient at producing goods at a low cost everything will be essentially free. Especially once we start exploring outside our own solar system and mining other planets. We wont have to cook anymore because robots will take care of that we will not have to diet because we will be able to consume a densely packed pill that will contain all the calories and nutrients we need to survive. If we want the joy of eating food we can just beam a brain signal through our skulls that will give us the desired sensation. With no work we will fill our days entertaining ourselves and raising children until we die (if we haven't figured out how to live forever).

 

I'd like your thoughts on this and any holes in what im saying that im not seeing. Admittedly the diet pill thing is a bit fantastical but I still do believe that eating for pleasure will be a thing of the past and something like that will eventually be implemented. 

[Carl Green]

I take it you're assuming that consciousness arises from matter? It might be worth it to look into this assumption as it's pretty key to entire thought experiment.

[jpahmad]

So I started thinking about what the future would look like and although I know my imagination can only go so far this is what I see eventually happening. In the future there will be no jobs because we will eventually figure out exactly how the human mind works. Once we know how the human mind works exactly we will be able to reproduce the human mind digitally. Currently this is completely impossible due to both a lack of computing power (which im sure we will over come in the future) and because of a lack of understand how all this power works inside our heads. Once we get that going we will be able to take all the creative aspects of the human mind and augment them. Which would make computers eventually more creative then humans. Again the only reason this is not possible now is because we really have no clue how a lot of human body functions. So with the invention of the synthetic brain all of science music art can done by robots essentially. There will also be no jobs because eventually we will become so efficient at producing goods at a low cost everything will be essentially free. Especially once we start exploring outside our own solar system and mining other planets. We wont have to cook anymore because robots will take care of that we will not have to diet because we will be able to consume a densely packed pill that will contain all the calories and nutrients we need to survive. If we want the joy of eating food we can just beam a brain signal through our skulls that will give us the desired sensation. With no work we will fill our days entertaining ourselves and raising children until we die (if we haven't figured out how to live forever).

 

I'd like your thoughts on this and any holes in what im saying that im not seeing. Admittedly the diet pill thing is a bit fantastical but I still do believe that eating for pleasure will be a thing of the past and something like that will eventually be implemented. 

 

Sounds pretty boring

[DaVinci]

I can certainly see a future with no jobs, or at the very least jobs that only have to be done infrequently to make the small amount of money needed to live. I think the 40 hour work week will be a thing of the past as almost everything becomes manufactured by machines.

[yagami]

I take it you're assuming that consciousness arises from matter? It might be worth it to look into this assumption as it's pretty key to entire thought experiment.

Admittedly I dont know much about the subject but I am an IT guy. Anything you understand you can program and I think it's only a matter of time before we completely understand how the mind works down to the last atom. Also the machine does not absolutely need to be self aware we only need the machine to function as a problem solver for science and a producer of new works in the music and arts. These machines will not need to be a carbon copy of the human mind to get the vast benefits im referring to.

 

Sounds pretty boring

I would love to live in a world with all my needs taken care of and all my desires at my finger tips. If you want excitement in your life im sure all of this will be able to be simulated in a way that is indistinguishable.

 

 

I can certainly see a future with no jobs, or at the very least jobs that only have to be done infrequently to make the small amount of money needed to live. I think the 40 hour work week will be a thing of the past as almost everything becomes manufactured by machines.

I think it will be better than just a little work I think it will be no work because machines will produce more than they cost to manufacture. We will manufacture more machines than we need which will mean society's profits will be infinite. I guess the only flaw I can see in this thinking now that I think of it is that human's desire for more will always exist in which case it will be impossible to know how much of each wealth producing machine will be needed at any given time.

[Carl Green]

As I understand this so far, neuroscience isn't coming up with much evidence that the brain's activity directly correlates to the experiences of the mind. (Contrary to that, if anything)

 

Regardless, human brains are terrible at computing. It's kinda why we invented calculators/computers. Why would we wanna make a copy of something we needed to supplement anyway?

[TheRobin]

As I understand this so far, neuroscience isn't coming up with much evidence that the brain's activity directly correlates to the experiences of the mind. (Contrary to that, if anything)

 

How did you get to that conclusion? (Or what do you mean with "mind"?) From what I can tell, neuroscience does a lot of that; stimulating certain experiences, seeing where it correlates in the brain and trying to figure out how the input is processed etc.

 

I remember Kevin sharing a video of a talk where they found some correlation between degrees of consciousness and a certain activity in the brain (or something along those lines, was a while back, don't remember the details, sry). 

[yagami]

I find it hard to believe that the creative aspect of what makes up human does not come from our brains. While I could be wrong it really doesn't matter. Eventually we will figure out what it is that allows us to be creative. I dont believe creativity is something that will remain a mystery forever and will never be producible by anything other than humans forever. I leave the details to the scientist to figure out.

[Carl Green]

I don't want to draw too far away from the intent of the post, just wanted to avail the info that neurosciences have made very little concrete progress and aren't likely to do so going about it the way they are.

As for never working, I'm an artist at heart. I would love to create all day.

 

Note: I've only recently been reading up on all this about the conscious so it's not to clear to myself yet either.

[TheRobin]

I don't want to draw too far away from the intent of the post, just wanted to avail the info that neurosciences have made very little concrete progress and aren't likely to do so going about it the way they are

 

Well, so far it isn't an info, but mere assertion without reasoning or evidence, or explanation what exactly the terms mean. I'm happy to hear the whole reasoing behind if you want to make another threat, so not to derail this one any further. But I have to say it really bugs me a little, when you someone makes very bold claims contrary to what is commonly held as true and accurate and then neither makes a good case for it nor explains when asked. I mean, in that case, why make a remark at all in the first place?

[Carl Green]

Well, so far it isn't an info, but mere assertion without reasoning or evidence, or explanation what exactly the terms mean. I'm happy to hear the whole reasoing behind if you want to make another threat, so not to derail this one any further. But I have to say it really bugs me a little, when you someone makes very bold claims contrary to what is commonly held as true and accurate and then neither makes a good case for it nor explains when asked. I mean, in that case, why make a remark at all in the first place?

I completely understand Robin. Like I said. This kinda stuff is quite new to me so I can't relay it too well but upon my initial reading of it, it made perfect sense (otherwise I wouldn't be making such claims that I can't currently explain well)Kinda like reading UPB and 'getting it' but not being able to accurately convey the message to someone critical of it.

[TheRobin]

I completely understand Robin. Like I said. This kinda stuff is quite new to me so I can't relay it too well but upon my initial reading of it, it made perfect sense (otherwise I wouldn't be making such claims that I can't currently explain well)Kinda like reading UPB and 'getting it' but not being able to accurately convey the message to someone critical of it.

 Okay, can you at least give me some sources then? I mean, what have you read about it (books or online articles)?

[Carl Green]

 Okay, can you at least give me some sources then? I mean, what have you read about it (books or online articles)?

 

The only author I've been reading on the subject so far is Dr. Bernardo Kastrup. The worldview he's discussing rationally accounts for the current scientific knowledge we have as well as offers a rational explanation for many of the mysteries and paradoxes that current scientific thought cannot and seemingly will never be able to account for.

[yagami]

As for never working, I'm an artist at heart. I would love to create all day.

When I say no work I literally mean no work. If you want to create art because you like creating art then there wont be anything holding you back from that but it will fall in the realm of entertainment. Just dont expect to be paid for such things. Especially given that everything will be so incredibly cheap and always getting cheaper you wont need money anyway.

 

Even if we grant you that science is going about this the wrong way it really doesn't matter. As I said before where creativity comes from will not remain a mystery forever. Whether it comes from what is commonly believed currently or is completely different once you understand it you can recreate the creative process in the form of 1s and 0s.

[wdiaz03]

...So with the invention of the synthetic brain all of science music art can done by robots essentially. .... 

 

....I find it hard to believe that the creative aspect of what makes up human does not come from our brains....

 

Creativity seems to me to be a byproduct of necessity. "Necessity is the mother of invention"

How are you going to command creativity? What incentives will a computer have to be creative?

Any machine that smart most likely would become self aware long before it can be creative enough to be

useful. It will probably declare independence from its human masters and demand the right to draw fractal art all day.

[yagami]

Creativity seems to me to be a byproduct of necessity. "Necessity is the mother of invention"

How are you going to command creativity? What incentives will a computer have to be creative?

Any machine that smart most likely would become self aware long before it can be creative enough to be

useful. It will probably declare independence from its human masters and demand the right to draw fractal art all day.

You are thinking too broadly. What allows humans to be creative in the abstract may be something humans need but that doesn't explain how exactly on a molecular level it works. When we create these machines they will not "need" anything. I think you are making the mistake of thinking that a machine will absolutely require a need in order to be creative. We will simply program the computers to be creative and this will be a compulsory command. The machines will not require self awareness no more than a toaster require self awareness to make your toast. It will preform the command it is given within the parameters of it's programming. 

[Carl Green]

Even if we grant you that science is going about this the wrong way it really doesn't matter. As I said before where creativity comes from will not remain a mystery forever. Whether it comes from what is commonly believed currently or is completely different once you understand it you can recreate the creative process in the form of 1s and 0s.

 

If science is going about it the wrong way, how will we ever understand it enough to generate it ourselves? Just to be clear here though, I'm not saying I believe we'll never be able to 'create' something that can channel creativity. According to this blog post, though, it's not likely to come from 1s and 0s.

[yagami]

What im saying it just because science could be going about this the wrong way now doesn't mean it will remain that way forever. So it really doesn't matter how much or little we understand it now. All we know for sure is we dont understand it fully. The only reason anyone can claim it will not come down to 1s and 0s and zeros is because we dont really know how it works so it's really inconceivable to try and program something like this. And again this isn't specifically about consciousness. This is more about how our brains solve problems. If we can figure out how our brains come up with new solutions it didn't have until our brain "thought" about the question we can reproduce this process in 1s and 0s. Consciousness has little to do with it. We dont need consciousness to program a calculator but we do need to understand mathematical theory in order to program the calculator. We need to know how 1 + 1  = 2 and likewise we need to understand what is it that allows our brains to solve problems.