Facebook beef; worth it?

[J-William]

 

So I'm in China and I just don't use Facebook all that much. Yesterday I posted a link to a discovery channel video about the harmful effects of spanking and connection to criminality. My aunt, who I don't like very much, posted a comment in defense of spanking and two acquaintances of mine hopped in to argue against spanking, and she has stuck to her position.

 

This may be a simple question, but my first impulse was to reply with a comment to the effect that I'm not speaking to my dad because he hit me and would likely defend their father's actions in the same way she is, and I'm ending the cycle of violence now. My hands were shaking and I felt incredibly nervous writing the comment, I didn't post it but instead took a trip down to the store for some batteries.

 

Now what I'm thinking is why bother? I mean she's old and saying anything to her about it is likely to just invite the FOO to try contacting me in some way. I'm pretty sure that debating her won't change any minds, so there's not that value. Why not just quietly unfriend her and leave it at that? Is there any benefit to engaging with this woman?

[shirgall]

The reason I would bother would be to change her mind and hope that she would change other people's minds. As you already said, she's not likely to, so you are unlikely to save anyone directly or indirectly.

 

I engage so little on facebook I might be biased too far in the "don't respond" direction, though.

[MysterionMuffles]

I think you already know the answer...

[Mr. Binary]

I didn't log in to Facebook in 3 or 4 months.

[Lingum]

Protect your health and unfriend her.

[Buggy]

 

 

So I'm in China and I just don't use Facebook all that much. Yesterday I posted a link to a discovery channel video about the harmful effects of spanking and connection to criminality. My aunt, who I don't like very much, posted a comment in defense of spanking and two acquaintances of mine hopped in to argue against spanking, and she has stuck to her position.

 

This may be a simple question, but my first impulse was to reply with a comment to the effect that I'm not speaking to my dad because he hit me and would likely defend their father's actions in the same way she is, and I'm ending the cycle of violence now. My hands were shaking and I felt incredibly nervous writing the comment, I didn't post it but instead took a trip down to the store for some batteries.

 

Now what I'm thinking is why bother? I mean she's old and saying anything to her about it is likely to just invite the FOO to try contacting me in some way. I'm pretty sure that debating her won't change any minds, so there's not that value. Why not just quietly unfriend her and leave it at that? Is there any benefit to engaging with this woman?

 

 

Hi J-William,

 

 

I "guesstimate" she's an older woman, as in 60-80, as you look like you're 30-35 years old to me, assuming your avatar is a portrait of you. Now I think we can agree to establish the point of view that the three most harmful things potentially coming from her to the world as she is as a person at the moment is: physical disciplining of children, teaching/somehow getting other/future mothers to do the same and then the other negative effects her personality has on the world around her. Now she's not very likely to get or have children, by my previous assumptions and which I extract from your choice of words in describing her as old. But is she around children a lot? Does she watch children for periods of time, does she meet children somehow regularly, is she involved with them in any way where she is allowed to discipline and more importantly discipline with the method of her choice as a parental or temporary parental figure? 

 

If she is in contact with children, in any way, I'd spend time on her.

 

Contact with future mothers. If she's a female authority in the family in any way to a stronger degree or a person of importance above the other members, due to her age, financial and/or social situation/position or for any other reason, and she is in contact with potential future/present mothers, I'd engage. She may influence the mothers with this, especially if the mothers are younger and/or weak in such a way that it makes their duties as a mother challenging in some way. We know how it can be directly tempting for certain personalities to adopt aggressiveness as method of raising children. I'd argue that she can potentially put that method to the table for other mothers which may influence them negatively or get them to adopt the method or parts of it.  

 

In relevance, I took some time to write this summary;

 

Essentially, the parent is forcing behavior that the parent thinks is right onto a child and expects it to follow it as a result of the constant passive-aggressive threat of physical violence causing pain which in nature inevitably generates fear, if strong enough which it always is and must be to have an effect, of future pain from the same source and for the same reason, usually not and not necessarily with any explanation or intellectual reasoning attached. This is done instead of using the much more demanding method of using intellectual understanding and human nature, which with the agenda of creating a mentally healthy and intelligent (per this zeitgeist standard) adult after an 18 year long childhood requires you to spend large amounts of time with your child in order to give it facts, experimental (for the child) ways of schematically process, categorize and socially relate to informational interpretation and do their reasoning to end up with answers ending in the realm of reality, regarding all matters from moral to theoretical fission physics to philosophical reasoning. The latter method is quite a mouthful. But as we know, Horse + Horse + Sex = Horse(s) and malfunctioning humans getting to shape other humans through child upbringings equals new malfunctioning humans with negative experiences and/or effects on the world around them (Statistically). At least until someone saves them.

 

 

A persons attributes, as we in the science of mental life say, is a generalization of a person which lets us predict what a person is likely to do and even make a picture of what the subject has done. Almost all attributes a person has, is displayed in observable behavior and observable social behavior. Without going on in to too much detail, if her opinion was formed by her conscious reasoning and logic, she is not only responsible for the damages it causes to others when she acts on it, she is also fundamentally shaped and changed, away from our biological interhuman standards and instincts. This will affect her to some degree, in all behavior and here especially social behavior. Inevitably, acting on the belief itself causes damage to others, but statistically the chances of this not having any negative effects on her and others in contact with her socially and others affected by her behavior somehow, is extremely small, especially when considering the belief itself and especially if she has acted on it. I'd find out, and act.

 

 

And even if that is irrelevant or not in your consideration, where (who) should we start and why there, when wanting to change this in the world? (A recent podcast with Stefan mentioned and gave an answer to this.)

 

 

/firstpost  here!

 

 

 

- Buggy

[J-William]

Hi J-William,

 

If she is in contact with children, in any way, I'd spend time on her.

 

 

/firstpost  here!

 

 

 

- Buggy

Alright, well first off, you posted some good points. She is a grandmother, and both her daughters have children. She is mostly defending the actions of her father. A libertarian friend has already given the argument about beating your wife and she said beaten wives should leave, so her position is typical... and easily taken down with logic.

 

I don't think she has much hands on time with the children, but she is certainly a powerful influence on her daughters. I doubt she would personally hit children, but she would clearly allow or encourage the hitting of children who "misbehave".

 

I do not know one way or the other about whether her grandchildren are spanked. I know that her older daughter is sending her children to public school. So there are no overt signs that they are bucking trends.

 

I will give it a shot and report back with my findings ;-)

 

 

A little feedback on your post: I almost didn't read your post. I found it very hard to read. I'm obviously no expert here, but I think you could have made your points in a simpler and less dry fashion. Are you a lawyer or academic? It was almost like reading a law briefing or a scientific paper... I mean this portion is a bit much "things potentially coming from her to the world as she is as a person at the moment" I mean... I can hardly slog my way through that.

 

You could sum up your first two paragraphs as "I assume she's an old lady and she might have power or influence over children or people with children, and if she does you should say something."

You could expand more on some parts, but we're not arguing some arcane bit of jurisprudence here. You have good points to make, I would hate for them to get lost in a sea of words.

[aFireInside]

I think the best thing to do is to delete people like that. 

 

I have a problem, I keep adding family members. (rarely) 

 

I think once i move out Im going to delete everyone and make my profile unsearchable. 

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There was this article about how Facebook is not popular anymore for people under 18 because family members where on their page. Sometimes its hard to say no as a young person because you still have to interact and live with these people. 

[fractional slacker]

You can unfriend her. That's simple and easy. Or you can ask why she thinks might=right? If she should ever need help in her retirement years, would she be okay with someone hitting her if she forgets something or causes some alarm?  Don't mince words by using the word spanking. It's your facebook page and while she is allowed to offer a different point of view, you reserve the right to have the final word.  Maybe use your post as a way to advertise your position to anyone else who might be curious about the topic of children? What if your post causes one person to reconsider their approach to hitting children. Is that worth the trouble?

[Josh F]

I'm defood and I blocked two aunts over similar issues.  The more recent one was estranged from my entire family, so I thought there might be some hope she was different.  I was seeking donations to a project I was working on and after sharing it with her, I asked her, and explained in detail, why I didn't want her to donate to it.  She donated anyways, and when I asked her about it and explained how I felt she was super condescending.  Block.  

 

RTR is great, but its only good if you actually want a relationship with that person.  

 

And a general rule of thumb I have for enjoying facebook... purge you friend list often.  By doing that you ensure your messages are only for your friends, and in general your posts won't be geared towards "everyone" if that makes sense.

[J. D. Stembal]

J-William,

 

I must pose the option of leaving Facebook to you. If you've already taken time to de-FOO from your father (and possibly mother), why leave yourself open to being pulled back into the family drama? This is the second thread I've seen in the FDR forums about confronting pro-spanking comments on social media. I will continue to ask FDR members to analyze the benefits of social media in their lives. Honestly, why do we need it or want it?

[MysterionMuffles]

J-William,

 

I must pose the option of leaving Facebook to you. If you've already taken time to de-FOO from your father (and possibly mother), why leave yourself open to being pulled back into the family drama? This is the second thread I've seen in the FDR forums about confronting pro-spanking comments on social media. I will continue to ask FDR members to analyze the benefits of social media in their lives. Honestly, why do we need it or want it?

 

Self promotion either personally or business wise.

 

My list is clean of dumb people, til proven otherwise. I like to share the good vibes with them as they all share positive status updates well as content. Facebook can be like your offlne life, get the kinda news you actually care about.

[st434u]

In my view, it's Facebook that isn't worth it.

 

As per Dunbar's Number, your brain is limited in it's ability to conceptualize different people individually. If you think you have 300 friends or more, you're wrong. Social media can create the illusion that you can have thousands of friends, but you really can't.

 

The way I view it, if you have friends, you talk to them directly. You don't need a publication where you can communicate your thoughts and feelings to everyone you know simultaneously. If you don't have time to talk to them personally, there may be a reason why.

 

Some people say it's ok because they are very restrictive with who they allow on their FB. But you know how it goes. You meet someone new, they ask you if you have FB and want to add you. If you say you have it but you don't wanna add them, it's gonna be an awkward situation. It's easier to say you don't have an account there. But if you really do, then you have to lie, which can create problems down the line. There are other ways to achieve the same thing, if what you need is a way to publish information that only a select number of people can view.

 

In most cases, FB and other social media simply become an addiction where people mindlessly browse through the gossip of what everyone they know is doing and thinking, all day and all night. And they make sure to document whatever it is they're doing or planning to do, as long as it's "cool", so they can share it with tons of people they probably care nothing about, as well as people they haven't met yet (because you can go back and look up history); while still not being public, generally.

 

The only reason I see for having a FB account is if I had a business or a career that depends on popularity and I wanted to tap into other people's social media addiction issues by having them follow me.

[Stoic_Dreamer]

You're the only one who can make that decision.  If your emotional well-being is harmed in continued conflict and you are obsessing over it, perhaps it's better to let it go.  If you can stomach it, the conversation is important if for no other reason than third party observers witnessing a challenge to parental abuse.  I do it with the police officers that post on my facebook page all the time- turn them into props in order to speak with the audience and find people that are still open to reason.  You would of course prefer that the other person reclaim their humanity, but if they refuse to then they can still serve the noble cause in their refusal.

 

 

One word of advice I try but sometimes fail to live by- When angry, strive to speak with control, wisdom, and only with truth. Do not allow the fire in your heart to control the wisdom of your words.

[J-William]

 

A quick update:

So, it didn't take me long to reach the end of my tolerance.

 

I made a few points, linked her to Stef's video about the effects of spanking and encouraged her to let the people in her life know about the harms of spanking.

 

After a bit of back and forth she posted that she was against hitting children, I asked her if that meant she was reversing her earlier defense of spanking. She said no, and I unfriended her.

 

My Facebook feed is now down to FDR people, libertarians, peaceful parenting people, and people I knew from school... So it's ok for the most part.

[MysterionMuffles]

Good stuff, J-William. It's quite rare to change people's minds offline, so the chances are even more stumped when you try to do it ONline.

 

Should we try and compile a list for tell tale signs that point to people who might have a chance at change vs those who you'll know will be stubborn as muels?