I think I broke her......

[Bouncelot]

I am going to prefix this by saying I am currently seeking a therapist, who I would assume I would normally bring this up with... but until then looking for a little sanity check.

 

 

Several months ago I met my girlfriend. The beginning was amazing, she is/was everything I have been looking for in a partner. There were some serious and open discussions early on as she is 19 years younger then me. So for the most part it was not a purely hormone driven fall and keep falling as fast a possible romance. We had our friends and family to deal with, we had to make sure the attraction was not for the wrong reasons, etc... Part of my attraction to her (and her to me) was that she was incredibly self aware. We fit in a way mentally, and emotionally in a way that I had never experience before. We had many very open discussions about our pasts, our childhoods, and even our present. 

 

Then she started freaking out.... At first it was by controlling our time together, not in a control "me" way. But more of a management. More time spent at her house, less at mine, more time doing frivolous things, less actually communicating.

When I confronted her about it, we had a very good discussion about what was going on in her head. How the relationship had become "serious" (we had just passed 6 months), how she didn't know if she believed in long term relationships, or marriage. This was a reflection of her past, her parents bad marriage, and her own hurt from being cheated on in her only long term relationship.

On top of that she was beginning to question her relationship with her parents, her friends (were they ever her friends) And in terms of life events, she had started to go back to school making a change in careers.

 

What I realized not long ago, is that I think it was our relationship that set allot of this off. Encountering a relationship that was open, honest, upfront, reciprocal, etc.... Has caused her to question everything around her... She is awakening.

 

The part that is confusing and frustrating is that she has pushed away from me as a result. I see glimpses of the woman I love in there, but she has become very different. She has fill her time to the point where she has as an extreme met with 6 different groups of "friends" in a single day (sometimes she will fit me in, others not), she takes entire days where she needs to "rest", so those days are filled as well. If I am lucky I see her for a few hours a week, and we barely talk in between. It's she is running, she is avoiding, and I suspect I am reminding her of what she is running from.... From what I have seen and heard, I suspect she is on the verge of a breakdown.When we are together though, I see the old her. we are "us" again. She is caring, the relationship is  reciprocal we have fun together, we have even discussed what is going on with her.

She apologizes, tells me that she is not fully certain what is going on, that she needs time. She even suggested once that maybe we should break up b/c she did not want to hurt me.

 

I want to be there for her; and I have told her as much. I want to support her in this. The woman I love is still in there... but.... How much of this should I continue to take? At what point does it transition from support to masochism? 

 

It has only been like this for a month now, but I am already starting to feel the strain.

 

 

[dsayers]

I see glimpses of the woman I love in there, but she has become very different.

 

I don't know her or you, but this sounds like you're in love with a fantasy. Also, the combination of pushing away, only spend a few hours a week, but when together seems open could easily be an act. Or allowing a fantasy to cause you to misinterpret the time you spend together. I think that instead of spending your mental energy trying to manage her (if only in your own mind), you could instead be learning more about yourself. Namely why you would be attracted to somebody who would "change" or push you away while lacking the self-knowledge to be able to understand why even after a month.

 

I'm also curious as to why her time has to be her friends OR you. Have you met any of her friends? Have you spent any time together with her friends? I also found your opening line of being "everything you were looking for in a partner" to be a red flag. Especially since you do not elucidate what that refers to. Finally, a 19 year difference in age wouldn't be a big deal if you were 60 and she was 41. But if you're 40 and she's 21, there's a very good chance that she couldn't possibly be everything you're looking for and/or even compatible with you.

[Bouncelot]

"I don't know her or you, but this sounds like you're in love with a fantasy. Also, the combination of pushing away, only spend a few hours a week, but when together seems open could easily be an act. Or allowing a fantasy to cause you to misinterpret the time you spend together."

Thanks for the perspective. This is part of what I am wondering... If there was a flag i missed or if upon having the first real relationship of her life (all the others were one sided) she is breaking. Am i just romanticizing it?

 

Looking back the change was not "visible" in the past. i.e. there were no "signs" that just got worse over time. this is almost a full 180.

She is showing signs of a break, distracted, unable to focus for long periods, she has her time scheduled at about 150% and is constantly letting things slip. One day she told me the same story 3 times in about 2 hours, not realizing she had already told me it.

She has had one friend approach her with concern that she may be entering a depression; and that she should seek counseling.

 

In terms of the self awareness, I am seeking help. I have not yet found a therapist yet.

 

"I'm also curious as to why her time has to be her friends OR you. Have you met any of her friends? Have you spent any time together with her friends?"

Yes, and Yes. and this is the strange thing to me as well, and was not always the case. Early on she would spend solo time with her friends, AND we would do couple things with them as well (imo the healty way). Given her busy schedule it would make sense that it would become primarily couple time, instead it has become only solo time, which stretches her schedule even more. Not only is it solo time, she no longer meets with her friends as a group, only individually. I don't get it... but am assuming it is a sign of her mental mess?

 

 

" I also found your opening line of being "everything you were looking for in a partner" to be a red flag. Especially since you do not elucidate what that refers to."

Sorry I was trying to summarize. by "everything I was looking for" I meant someone who: is intelligent and curious. is open to new thoughts and ideas, willing to change their mind is they encounter something that proves old ideas wrong (i.e. open to FDR). Someone who values choice. Someone who has the self awareness and openness needed for real communication. Someone who understands that true relationships are reciprocal. 

Now, it can and will be argued that her self awareness was not great if she had so many bad relationships in the past, and still does (her current set of friends. I recognize that, but the fact that she was questioning those relationships (w/o my prompting) and willing to be honest with her self, showed me she had the tools and desire to improve it.

 

"Finally, a 19 year difference in age wouldn't be a big deal if you were 60 and she was 41. But if you're 40 and she's 21, there's a very good chance that she couldn't possibly be everything you're looking for and/or even compatible with you."

It is possible; and this is a question I have been asking myself almost every day since we got together.

We "didn't" see each other for almost a year after we met. Both of us held back because of the age gap. Over 6-7 months we got to know each other, and then became friends. it was 4 months after that, that neither of us could deny what we had. It was very cautious, and deliberate. and we discuss it regularly. I know there is a good chance she will become someone else, and that compatibility will be broken.

[Carl Green]

I would not be in a relationship with someone that has the person I want to be with, "inside of someone else"

 

(just expressing how i personally would see the situation given the details you mentioned. I don't want to imply that you shouldn't be with her)

[Loner]

19 years younger than you? That is creepy as fuuuUUUuuuck. 

 

When you were an 18 year old, your girlfriend's parents didn't even conceive of her yet. You could buy cigarettes, or join the military and get blown up by donkey carcass IEDs or die from friendly fire when you girlfriend didn't even exist yet.

 

When your girlfriend was a 3 year old, and she was learning how to read, you would've been 21; old enough to purchase alcoholic beverages. 

 

What the hell was your girl thinking anyways? You are almost 2 decades older than she is. If she married you, you will die 20 years before she will. That is 2 decades she will be without you. She could raise children from birth to near adulthood with the time that you will be dead. 

 

Does "frivolous things" equates to you buying her expensive stuff? She's not sure if she "believed" in long term relationships or marriage? Sounds like she's playing you like a fiddle... She was in a previous relationship where her boyfriend cheated on her? Someone who is more familiar with Real Time Relationships can answer this better than I can since I just started reading it, but there's a bit in there about lots of sex in the beginning means little sex later on, because the girl will feel you are wanting only her + sex. So, that's probably what the guy who cheated on her wanted, and that is all she brought to the table, sex. And she got frustrated with it, and stopped having it with him, so he went to find it somewhere else. Since he cheated on her, he's not virtuous so that's probably all he wanted from her in the first place. Someone with a better understanding of RTR can elaborate further, I'm still somewhat new to this... 

 

Going back to college for a career? Does she want children? If she wants children, and she wants to get a career as well; she's an idiot. 

 

Is she having sex with you by the way? If she's having sex with you, and she isn't married to you, then she isn't as quality as you think she is. 

 

Yeah, she's questioning everything around her. She's probably wondering why someone who is old enough to be her father wants to marry her. That's probably why she is distancing herself from you. I'd do the same if some MILF who was old enough to be my mom wanted to marry me. 

 

Entire days where she needs to rest? Is she an introvert? If not, she's probably visiting other guys. She apologizes, she's isn't fully aware of what is going on, and she wants to break up because she doesn't want to hurt you? Yeah... sure. I can't tell you do anything, that is your decision you will have to make. But if I were you, I'd leave her. I don't even think I would befriend her because the only time she will ever would want to be around is to just use you as an emotional tampon. If you told her about Stef, that's pretty much all she needs to know.

As I proof read this, it does sound harsh, but you need to hear it. I'm not going to sugar coat it and lie to you. 

[hannahbanana]

You said she just started going back to school. Is she pursuing a very difficult major, or one that involves a lot of pressure or competition within the major? I'm not sure if this helps with the actual relationship problems, but I can completely relate if she is in a very stressful and difficult program. It's hard to adjust to college, and especially if you are in a competitive major there is a lot of pressure to give 120% on your work. I know a lot of people who take it too far and realized they've overstretched themselves way too much. What you're saying sounds like she is becoming a bit unraveled by everything going on with her.

I experienced a similar situation last year: taking extra credits for difficult classes, large amounts of homework, a part time job, extracurricular activities, AND continuing a long-distance relationship...it got pretty crazy, and I got into the habit of partitioning and assigning ALL of my time, in order to maintain all of the things I was trying to do. It didn't last long; I was getting frayed at the edges, and experiencing several breakdowns. After one semester, I decided major changes needed to be made, and the next semester I took fewer classes, dropped a shift of my job, and gave up an extra activity. It helped a lot.

Have you talked to your girlfriend about what school is doing to her mental health, and whether she might need to scale back on some things for the sake of her sanity? This could have something to do with it - humans aren't superheros, and people can reach a limit where they begin losing touch with who they are. I know I almost did, and I managed to take a step back from it.

[Bouncelot]

The course is not overly difficult, ~50hrs between classes and homework. It is out of town though, so add 1-2hrs of traffic each way. Then throw a job (which she started last week, and just told me about now....) Plus working with two organizations ~3hrs a week for one, and ~6 for the other. And then her friendships on top of that.... it does not leave much time....

We did have a talk a few weeks ago about her needing to prioritize things; and the fact that she has an issue with invitation=obligation. She will drop plans with me or friends, for random invites to a friend of a friend's BBQ or something b/c she feels guilty for not attending. She seem to get it, she seemed to know its an issue... but I have seen nothing yet that would indicate that she is doing anything about it... but hard to see improvement when I barely see her!

 

What caused you to hit the wall? How was the relationship handled during that time?

 

My biggest issue is I don't know what "normal" is, what I can/should deal with, and where the line needs to be drawn. Sometimes I think I am just over reacting, and others I think it is justified.... Should she not put me at least 4th on her list of priorities?

Sometimes I think I set myself up by telling her that I understood, was there for her, and that it was OK to say no to me sometimes if she needed time. Before that she had gotten into the habit of scheduling time with me, when she didn't really have any, and needed to be elsewhere. I wanted her to know that I did not want her if she was just humoring me. Now it seems I am the only one she can say no to, and she is humoring everyone else!

I understand that stress can do strange things to the mind, I get it, I have gone through similar periods, only I was alone at the time. I just don't know how much I should put up with before it crosses that line into unhealthy.

 

 

Part of me wants to dump her. And part wants to "make everything better" by inviting her to move in, and telling her to quit the job, so that she has more free time... I don't think the last is a healthy option, and I am not sure about the first....

[dsayers]

Part of me wants to dump her. And part wants to "make everything better" by inviting her to move in

 

Better for who? You realize that these two courses of action are polar opposites, right? I think that if you are unclear as to where you stand and acknowledge that she has difficulty declining invitations AND is spread too thin, then to ask her to move in with you would be predatory. I don't even see how based on what you describe that moving in could be viewed as an alleviation for her or for you. Unless you live significantly closer to her school. Even still, for you to take that step while being unclear as to where you even stand seems like erasing yourself for somebody else.

 

I'm also curious as to why she lives so far away from school? It's a big commitment anyways and to make that sort of trek numerous times each week doesn't make sense.

 

The way you describe how thin she's spread, it almost sounds like she's trying to avoid something. Presumably there was a point ahead of this overloading that was uncomfortable to her. Instead of dialing it down, it sounds like she cranked it up. Also, if it was a 180 as you say, then I'm curious as to what happened. Did a loved one die, did she get raped, etc. People cannot voluntarily change that rapidly, which suggests a powerful outside influence.

 

And what about you? This doesn't seem like the sort of complicated life somebody would choose for themselves. Again, I don't know either of you. But it doesn't sound like you're close enough to put up with this sort of thing. Either something horrible happened to her that she's not comfortable with talking to you about it or nothing happened and she's willing to overload her schedule at the expense of spending time with you. I still don't see how one could go from all that to even contemplating moving in together.

[Bouncelot]

You are right. that's why I put "I don't think the last is a healthy option". It is definitely something I would not do. I may not be bright, but I am not that dense! It more of an instinctive reaction; and one I know is not right. It is taking advantage of her state, and "buying her time". But I also want to make life easier for her, not harder. Hence the exact opposite (logical) reaction of wanting to dump her.

 

The distance from school is just a matter of standard of living. rent out here is almost 1/2 what she would pay in the city, and she has a really good rent at the moment in a place she likes.

 

In terms of the event, I tried to cover this in the OP. I think she is also, on top of everything, trying to avoid something (look at the subject).  It's an accumulation of events. Our relationship hitting a point that scared her (this is her second longest, and her most serious relationship), her "awaking" questioning the intentions of her friends, parents, the government, etc... On top of that her parents are in the process of what appears to be heading to a divorce, her mother is narcissistic and verbally abusive, it has gotten worse since the mother has started fighting with the dad.

Now throw the schooling and everything else on top of it, and you have quite a mess, with many reasons to avoid.

I suspect that when we got together, ans she saw how things "should be", it started the ball rolling.

Her A.C.E. is a 5, prior to us, I get the impression that most of what she has told be about her childhood, she has never shared before. She admitted to me, when I approached her about bout her parents fighting, that she had become "numb" to it all and that it didn't bother her anymore...  It possible that all of this changing that.

but I am not a shrink...

 

I don't envy her. For me it was a slow process that took a decade. She seems to be hitting it all at once.

[hannahbanana]

 

 

What caused you to hit the wall? How was the relationship handled during that time?

 

 

My relationship actually went pretty well at the time, especially because there was dialogue and understanding between the two of us. We tried to have designated skype times to talk, but if I had a lot of work to do that particular week, I'd let my SO know beforehand. I would also often bring work with me when I visited him, so that if we had some down time (ex. watching a movie or watching him play a video game) I'd take out my book and read. Or, I'd come and visit, then do homework while he was working.

I hit the wall that semester when I started having emotional breakdowns every week...this was also accompanied by the feeling that I was no longer enjoying learning, which was really what hit home for me...it scared me to know that I hit a point where knowledge was no longer feeling beneficial to me.

I'm not sure what you should do to continue with this relationship, but there is obviously something that is happening to make your girlfriend change, and it wouldn't surprise me if the college environment had something to do with it.

[Bouncelot]

@Loner, for some reason your post just showed up for me this morning. I do appreciate the hard line from you and the others who have responded to this thread, thank you all!

 

The age thing was a shocker for me, and has never happened to me before, nor do I think it will again. She was "different". We share allot of the same hobbies and interests, taste in music and movies, books, etc... Her parents are actually the same age as my parents, I think that may have allot to do with it not being overly weird. Even though I am old enough to be her father, I am not, and neither of us wants or is looking for that.

 

"Does "frivolous things" equates to you buying her expensive stuff? She's not sure if she "believed" in long term relationships or marriage? Sounds like she's playing you like a fiddle..."

No, she actually not interested in the money or what I can do for her at all it seems. by "frivolous things" I mean playing video games, watching movies, going for a run, anything where we were to distracted, or too out of breadth to have a real conversation. 

The marriage thing more has to do with her parents marriage breaking up, she is taking it hard, and questioning love in general. She thought they were happy, and idealized their marriage. As most of us do at the beginning of our lives, then something happens to make us question those beliefs. For me that happened very young, for her it just seems to be happening later.

 

"Going back to college for a career? Does she want children? If she wants children, and she wants to get a career as well; she's an idiot."

She does not want children.

 

"Entire days where she needs to rest? Is she an introvert?"

She is; and her rest/recovery time is getting scarce.

She also has an issue opening up in the moment, and I have been trying to get her to (I have similar issues). So when she is having a bad day, or an issue with a friend she will tell me something like "just had a fight with my mom, going to stay home tonight, I don't want to put this on you.", afterwards she will tell me all about it, and share it with me, but only once she has had time to deal with it.

 

 

@hannahbanana

 

Sounds like you guys handled it really well! kudos!

 

This is what I have been expecting from her, and not seeing. My main source of frustration.

[Psychophant]

19 years younger than you? That is creepy as fuuuUUUuuuck. 

 

When you were an 18 year old, your girlfriend's parents didn't even conceive of her yet. You could buy cigarettes, or join the military and get blown up by donkey carcass IEDs or die from friendly fire when you girlfriend didn't even exist yet.

 

When your girlfriend was a 3 year old, and she was learning how to read, you would've been 21; old enough to purchase alcoholic beverages.

 

So what? A 105 year old dude can still marry a 54 year old women and the relationship can be successfull. Those are just numbers and creepy is not an argument. Would you argue that a 105 year old dude is 51 years more mature than a 54 year old chick or is the difference the life experience?

 

19 years vs 30 years would be 6 years before brain maturity in the first case. What exactly could the younger partner lacking and what makes her a good partner? It is not like a personality change or something. The age maturity argument should not be a thought-terminating cliché.

[hannahbanana]

19 years younger than you? That is creepy as fuuuUUUuuuck. 

 

When you were an 18 year old, your girlfriend's parents didn't even conceive of her yet. You could buy cigarettes, or join the military and get blown up by donkey carcass IEDs or die from friendly fire when you girlfriend didn't even exist yet.

 

When your girlfriend was a 3 year old, and she was learning how to read, you would've been 21; old enough to purchase alcoholic beverages. 

 

What the hell was your girl thinking anyways? You are almost 2 decades older than she is. If she married you, you will die 20 years before she will. That is 2 decades she will be without you. She could raise children from birth to near adulthood with the time that you will be dead. 

 

Does "frivolous things" equates to you buying her expensive stuff? She's not sure if she "believed" in long term relationships or marriage? Sounds like she's playing you like a fiddle... She was in a previous relationship where her boyfriend cheated on her? Someone who is more familiar with Real Time Relationships can answer this better than I can since I just started reading it, but there's a bit in there about lots of sex in the beginning means little sex later on, because the girl will feel you are wanting only her + sex. So, that's probably what the guy who cheated on her wanted, and that is all she brought to the table, sex. And she got frustrated with it, and stopped having it with him, so he went to find it somewhere else. Since he cheated on her, he's not virtuous so that's probably all he wanted from her in the first place. Someone with a better understanding of RTR can elaborate further, I'm still somewhat new to this... 

 

Going back to college for a career? Does she want children? If she wants children, and she wants to get a career as well; she's an idiot. 

 

Is she having sex with you by the way? If she's having sex with you, and she isn't married to you, then she isn't as quality as you think she is. 

 

Yeah, she's questioning everything around her. She's probably wondering why someone who is old enough to be her father wants to marry her. That's probably why she is distancing herself from you. I'd do the same if some MILF who was old enough to be my mom wanted to marry me. 

 

Entire days where she needs to rest? Is she an introvert? If not, she's probably visiting other guys. She apologizes, she's isn't fully aware of what is going on, and she wants to break up because she doesn't want to hurt you? Yeah... sure. I can't tell you do anything, that is your decision you will have to make. But if I were you, I'd leave her. I don't even think I would befriend her because the only time she will ever would want to be around is to just use you as an emotional tampon. If you told her about Stef, that's pretty much all she needs to know.

As I proof read this, it does sound harsh, but you need to hear it. I'm not going to sugar coat it and lie to you. 

I know you said you're new to this, and you're trying to be blunt about your stance here...but this post was full of a whole lot of strawmen, which is not exactly helpful for you or the OP, and does not give a proper representation of the OPs girlfriends to base advice or ideas off of. If you have any reasoning to back up your claims of the OP's girlfriend's behavior, maybe you could elaborate on them? I'd like to understand your position a little better.

[Bouncelot]

The age thing may have been a little harsh, but I appreciated Loners comments. It wasn't anything I had not thought myself already, and it was a big hurdle for me/us. As Skirtilator mentioned (in a different context) she has not reached brain maturity, which was even more of a concern for me.

I have gone out of my way to not influence or lead her in any way, to let her "find her path", even though I know this could lead her away from me.

 

 

An Update... Most of this I suppose is of no consequence now... She made the decision for me.

This weekend she approached me, we had a very long open discussion covering the whole relationship, from beginning to end. Yes, end. We talked about the states stages, transitions, How we ended up where we were. A summary of her final statements would be:

 

I love you (something she had never said to me before), and that is why we need to stop seeing each-other. I feel myself going to a dark place, lashing out at those that mean the most to me, and I don't want to hurt you. I am heading for a breakdown, and I don't want you or us to be a casualty of it. You mean too much to me.

 

She does want us to remain friends, but I told her I could not. I can't watch her go through this and just sit on the sidelines, that it would be too painful. But that I knew there were other ways to go through it, without self destructing, that if she decided to take them I would be there for her.

Her response was that she had no control over anything her actions at this point, and the coming breakdown. That she will be OK, she has done this twice in her life already, and that she felt she was getting better, as this is the first time she has tried to spare someone... 

 

... talk about a mind fuck... I really want to hate her for this! Instead I am stuck worrying even more! She has pushed myself, and her best friend out of her life, its not a good sign... I really don't know what to do or even think about this...

 

On the bright side, before all of this happened I manage to make my first appointment with a therapist. I am hoping this one works out. On paper, and with my brief discussion with her, it seems like a good fit. But time will tell.

But of course this is more about dealing with my own issues, and my past, and nothing to do with my Ex. (Feels strange calling her that...)

[dsayers]

I hope you are aware that she is lying to herself and to you.

[Bouncelot]

I hope you are aware that she is lying to herself and to you.

Yup