Roem Posted September 20, 2014 Posted September 20, 2014 Guten Tag, Listeners I'm new to the forum but I've been following Freedomain Radio for over a year now and in the topic of Education I have yet to see the International Baccalaureate (IB) Program discussed at all. I would mainly want thoughts from people who know about it / have experienced it; but for those who haven't heard of it, it's a rigorous non-profit international education program that was initially formed in Geneva, Switzerland in the 60s and is now offered across the world (almost 4k schools in 147 countries). It claims to promote things such as "having a world-view/ being internationally-minded." It is also meant to be college-preparatory in the sense that classes have the structure and expectations of college courses, though with middle- and high school students (many colleges now offer extra credits for completed IB courses so that you don't have to take those classes at uni). It would also be worth mentioning that the program was created to educate the children of diplomats who would be doing a lot of traveling. My experience: In summary, I would say that the majority of my criticisms for the success of the program have to do with normal-level public school BS which obviously would get in the way of anything enlightened if it indeed showed up. For example there's a Theory of Knowledge class that my school has just dropped as a course (though they're pretending they've just tagged it onto the Language Arts course) and that was the one area where I felt they were approaching FDR-type discussions: about the foundations of our knowledge systems, cultural and gender biases, how most people really have no clue/ don't want to admit why they believe what they believe etc. It wasn't surprising that the other supposedly "IB" teachers (who are essentially regular p.s. teachers) proceeded throughout the year to make sophist ad hominem attacks against him (ex. "He's crazy," "This makes no sense, like when [x] talks"). So what are your thoughts on it? Do you think it's compatible with un-schooling? (sorry if I don't reply; as a newbie my posts are limited)
surfingthoughts Posted September 20, 2014 Posted September 20, 2014 Hello, welcome to the forums! I did the IB unfortunately I was in the second year that it was introduced to my school so it was very "new" and mistakes were made by the school. Compared to university yes you do an extended essay and presentations and that helps but I was amazed when I went to uni how much of it was self learning/teaching (I did a business degree though ) in stark contrast to when I was studying IB I was practically baby sat. Compared to the English equivalent A level IB is a hell of allot harder and a big step up from the British state exams called GCSE's. I found the IB very hard largely to do with my mind set at the time I would avoid doing things until the last minute which put me under allot of pressure which resulted in bad coping techniques, thankfully I found FDR and a good therapist. IB is good in the sense that it gives you a good round base / foundation that you could put many types of higher education on top of but it is worth noting it is rarely designed/tailored for the higher education on top of it (might be a bit of a sketchy metaphor but it was the best I could come up with). For example you have to study a foreign language this wont be useful to everyone so it could be a bit of a waste? I think the IB is good as a stepping stone to university but not really focused enough for going straight to the job market unless your wanting to start at the bottom. The scoring system is good in my view much better than ABC crap the total points idea is sensible. I like you also appreciated TOK but I sure do wish it got anywhere near as deep as FDR. Regarding FDR opinion on education I believe I would be right in saying that early years to be home schooled and later years to be in private education / university if it will be genuinely beneficial to your job prospects rather than working your way up. Basically state education = ... <- correct me if I am wrong.
Roem Posted September 21, 2014 Author Posted September 21, 2014 Hello, welcome to the forums! I did the IB unfortunately I was in the second year that it was introduced to my school so it was very "new" and mistakes were made by the school. Compared to university yes you do an extended essay and presentations and that helps but I was amazed when I went to uni how much of it was self learning/teaching (I did a business degree though ) in stark contrast to when I was studying IB I was practically baby sat. Compared to the English equivalent A level IB is a hell of allot harder and a big step up from the British state exams called GCSE's. I found the IB very hard largely to do with my mind set at the time I would avoid doing things until the last minute which put me under allot of pressure which resulted in bad coping techniques, thankfully I found FDR and a good therapist. IB is good in the sense that it gives you a good round base / foundation that you could put many types of higher education on top of but it is worth noting it is rarely designed/tailored for the higher education on top of it (might be a bit of a sketchy metaphor but it was the best I could come up with). For example you have to study a foreign language this wont be useful to everyone so it could be a bit of a waste? I think the IB is good as a stepping stone to university but not really focused enough for going straight to the job market unless your wanting to start at the bottom. The scoring system is good in my view much better than ABC crap the total points idea is sensible. I like you also appreciated TOK but I sure do wish it got anywhere near as deep as FDR. Regarding FDR opinion on education I believe I would be right in saying that early years to be home schooled and later years to be in private education / university if it will be genuinely beneficial to your job prospects rather than working your way up. Basically state education = ... <- correct me if I am wrong. The experience was different for me, I was in the AP program up until Pre-IB classes started in junior high. So we had more time for integration, though from what I'd heard from past graduates the early years were very messy. I still felt babysat in both programs but compared to the few normal-level classes I took, I definitely felt more independent (as far as you can be independent in a state school, of course..). We had more opportunities to have input on the curriculum and there was less regurgitation, hence my wondering whether it could be compatible with un-schooling if in a non-coercive environment. I agree that the program itself doesn't give training for the job market. It approaches it in some ways through the CAS because you have to go out and be involved in your community, but they prohibit you from including any money-earning activities as CAS which isn't too helpful. I'm thinking about going towards Business Professionals of America club so that I can slip in some hours towards that avenue. Yea, I'm sure TOK teachers across the board aren't FDR-minded (it seems that most of them come from a more religious mindset) but that was the only class which got close to it, in my experience. He had us spend the first week criticizing the grading system and the authoritarian setup of public schools, how kids are coming out vastly unprepared for the working environment and then get saddled with overwhelming debt in college etc., which no doubt made him unpopular among the staff. -Yup. That was the primary reason why I stayed with advanced programs because I figured that if I had to be there, I might as well go for the highest level. And because of all the time they allow us for independent study, I'm in the library computer lab for at least half an hour every day using their tech to deprogram myself with Wikileaks and FDR podcasts . So there's that benefit too.
surfingthoughts Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 The measurement of intelligence and knowledge will always be needed, it is possible for employers to do it all in house but it would be expensive considering they would have no academic bar to set before people could take their test, I guess online tests might be a cost effective solution to that. Something like the IB could be used to help employers filter through job applications (and help applicants decide what to go for) in terms of the tests / requirements but the process of going to a school for a set number of hours is for lack of a better term old school. I'm not saying schools wouldn't exist for pupils the age of 13-16 but I would imagine they would operate very differently and due to true competition be far more productive. Would be interesting to hear what other members think about schools for that age group, would they exists (through demand) in your opinion?
Recommended Posts