Friend leaves conversation

[Tworsley]

Last week I tried to have an open and honest conversation with an friend of mine and the conversation ended with her leaving the table. I have known her since freshman year of college( so for two years now), but we were never close as I liked us to be. Over the Summer I had a phone conversation where I  discussed the process I am going though, such as talking to my mom about my childhood and the horrors she did to me. She responded by saying things like "some kids can take it, but some cant"(whoopings), "my friend has an abusive mom and for some reason she still goes to see her", "my parents wooped me but I am not mad at them for doing so". After she said all of this, I immediately felt sad, why did i feel sad?  I felt sad because I felt like I did not get any empathy for what happened to me and how I am trying to recover. I am not looking for a reaosn to be mad at this girl, but that is genuinely how I felt in that moment. And yes some will say I should have brung up my feeling to her right then and there, but I was too afraid to. So fast forward to last week, i try to do rtr with her at lunch and tried my best to sound non-aggressive/confrontational. Me:"I may be wrong but some reason I feel a lack of connection in our relationship". Her: "Why?" Me: "I have no idea". Her: "Okay torien, you have to understand we are not that close I mean, I only see you  a couple time month, we are not at that level yet". Me:"How do you see me" Her:"i mean I see you like everybody else, someone to talk to, normal" Me:" Right, okay how are you feeling now?" Her:" I feel uncomfortable" Me:" why?" Her: "Because you bring this up out of no where I feel like you are not saying what you want to say" Me:" Okay, true, true. Over the summer I told you about my mom and what she did to me when I was little, and I may be wrong but I did not feel empathy coming from your end". Her:" I am sorry that you felt like I was not being empathetic towards you. I was not doing that intentionally". Me: "Okay, thank you for saying that. what do you think about my mom?" Her:" I mean thats family, you can't just talk about someone's mom like that. Also you never told me I could talk about your mom or that I you would not get mad if I do so".Me:"Right, but right now I am allowing you to talk about my mom!" Her:"You dont just talk about someone elses mom torien". Me:"Right, right, but I told you she was abusive though. No one will look at a man hitting his wife in a grocery store and say "well let them do there thing its none of our business"". Her: "Okay but thats a different situation, my best friend has a terrible mom but for some reason she keeps staying with her". Me:"Her moms abusive?" Her:" Yeah, but it seems like they get along now, I am not about to talk about her mom though, you just dont  do that" Me:"What do you mean?" Her:"I dont think you are hearing me torien" Me: "but why  not though??" Her:"Because I dont want to hurt her feelings" Me: "And thats your best friend?" Her:" I have some studying to do"- she then gets up and  leaves the conversation.My stomach was in a tight knot after the conversation and I was breathing heavily, I was just taken by surprise. I need you all to help me out. Was it to early for me to start this type of dialogue?  Can someone explain how true friends are created? Lastly, I realized what bothered me about her so much. She is very politically correct. She cant take a stand when it comes to something like comdeming abusers(particularly parents). I would have said that but that did come to my mind while we were talking. If someone can't condem abusive parents that really hurts my feelings. Was I being selfish in the dialogue? Did i not give her a fair chance? I desperately want to get to the level of friendship she talked about, but I feel that my passion for this philosophy may come in to early. It is like oxygen to me.

[andkon]

Your friend cannot empathize with her inner child: "my parents wooped me but I am not mad at them for doing so." Beating small kids is okay. It's nothing to get mad about. Let's change the conversation, okay? Is it surprising that she cannot empathize with your inner child and desperately evades the conversation? No.  

She cant take a stand when it comes to something like comdeming abusers(particularly parents). I would have said that but that did come to my mind while we were talking. If someone can't condem abusive parents that really hurts my feelings. Was I being selfish in the dialogue? Did i not give her a fair chance? I desperately want to get to the level of friendship she talked about, but I feel that my passion for this philosophy may come in to early. It is like oxygen to me.

 She has taken a stand: she's on the side of the abusers by not wanting to talk about it. This is co-dependence and enabling: the problem is not that mommy beats kids, it's that the victims talk about it. The overriding value is "politeness," that is, covering up child abuse: yours, hers, everyone's. 

Was I being selfish in the dialogue? Did i not give her a fair chance?

 

You did give her a fair chance, she took, ran with it and got evasive:

 

1. It started with: "we are not at that level yet" (But... she doesn't talk to her best friend about a deep issue either, so that can't be the reason.)

2. So why have we not talked about my mother? Answer: "you never told me I could talk about your mom"

3. Alright.. talk about my mother all you want. Answer: "You dont just talk about someone elses mom" (The rule shift from "you didn't give me permission to talk about it" to "we can never talk about it.")

4. What about spousal abuse, can we never talk about that? Answer: "but thats a different situation" because???

5. So why shouldn't we talk about abusive mothers again? Answer: "I dont want to hurt her [victim's] feelings"

 

So her value is that it's better to not talk about abuse because talking about abuse hurts... the victim? If the roles were husband and wife, well, that's a different situation.

[cynicist]

I think you handled yourself beautifully in that conversation. Multiple times you can see that she is implicitly admitting to being uncomfortable with the idea that parents (and especially mothers) can be abusive towards their children.

 

She uses euphemisms like 'whooping'

Admits that her parents hit her but says she is not mad about it

Claims that physical abuse from husbands is 'different'

Points to an example of a friend who was hit and 'gets along' with her mom anyway

 

In all of this she is essentially denying your experience, telling you that what you feel doesn't make sense. And when you don't agree with that, she falls back to 'you don't talk about someone's mother', 'you aren't listening', 'I'm protecting people's feelings', and when none of that works she leaves.

 

Unless it's missing from your post, it seems like this person did not make an effort to understand what you were saying. I think you just have to keep moving until you find people who want to listen to you. Trust me when I say you will know when you find them because the experience will be unlike anything you had before.

[LovePrevails]

Brave stuff Torien, when you find someone who can have these kinds of conversations you will know right away

I dated a girl for a while who got the parent stuff right away because her dad left and she knew what it was like to be hurt by a parent

some people can be coached but it takes a lot of skill, patience and occasionally holding stuff back so they can be drip fed the truth at their pace,

it may be best to look for people who show more instant understanding

[Tworsley]

Oh my god, thank you all so much. Andkon, the "politeness" part is exactly true. I like how you are able to call a spade a spade.

 

Your friend cannot empathize with her inner child: "my parents wooped me but I am not mad at them for doing so." Beating small kids is okay. It's nothing to get mad about. Let's change the conversation, okay? Is it surprising that she cannot empathize with your inner child and desperately evades the conversation? No. She has taken a stand: she's on the side of the abusers by not wanting to talk about it. This is co-dependence and enabling: the problem is not that mommy beats kids, it's that the victims talk about it. The overriding value is "politeness," that is, covering up child abuse: yours, hers, everyone's. 

 

Not empathizing with her inner-child could be so destructive for your mind and body. And something inside me felt she was not connected with herself, her demeanor was very external if that makes sense. I would be the one digging deep, but not her.

 

some people can be coached but it takes a lot of skill, patience and occasionally holding stuff back so they can be drip fed the truth at their pace,

it may be best to look for people who show more instant understanding

Right LovePrevails, since August I am having this experience, trying to bring people I meet in slowly, although sometimes I fail. It's exciting but frustrating sometimes because I will want more than the other person, if that makes sense. Right now I am just recouping and thinking about my relationships. I know for a fact I will find that person that I can have a connection with.

 

 

In all of this she is essentially denying your experience, telling you that what you feel doesn't make sense. And when you don't agree with that, she falls back to 'you don't talk about someone's mother', 'you aren't listening', 'I'm protecting people's feelings', and when none of that works she leaves.

 

 

Thanks Robert! That's probably why I was taking offense to what she was saying. Oh my God, without philosophy I would have been so lost in this discussion and may have concluded that this was my fought, but it is not. Thank you all of you for the posts, this gives me even more courage and certainty to continue down this path of philosophy.

[LovePrevails]

check out my channel www.youtube.com/enrichyourlife1 it has good resources on building and improving relationships and if you have any topics I could do a video

[CallMeViolet]

Not to be rude but she seems like someone not really worth your time; that's really screwed up. Kinda sounds like she had the empathy beaten out of her... sad really... if she can't even consider it wrong for herself to have been hit as a child she probably won't ever take your abuse seriously.

Also she will probably hit her kids one day... You think you'd really want to be around that?

[Livemike]

Were you being selfish in this conversation?  Well if by that you mean "Were you pursuing your own goals?" then yes clearly, but so what?  That's what people do.  It's not wrong to pursue a desire just because it's yours.  (see  Ayn Rand).

 

If you mean "Was I concentrating on my own desires to the exclusion of hers?", no.  You wanted the facts of your relationship to be made plain.  That's not an unreasonable request, and it's not something an honest person would resent or resist.  There is no _legitimate_ desire of hers that you ignored.  Her desire to ignore the importance of things you say and have you just accept that is not legitimate.  She can't expect you to just accept that she won't say anything about something important to you and remain as friends.