Josh Takacs Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 I think it is obvious we all want a peaceful and virtuous world. The only question is how do we get there. I agree that peaceful parenting is the best long term solution but I don't think it will be enough. We always speak of investing in virtue and that it pays in the long run and this is true. The problem is most people don't have the money, time, or extra mental effort to invest. Its like giving corn to a starving man and saying, " Plant this don't eat it. If you eat it now you will starve to death later." Even if he understands this concept he will reply, " I'm starving now. I know that if I eat now I will starve later. I choose life now even if it is only for a short time." I don't think we will ever be able to convince people to invest with capital they don't have when the state can always bribe people with there own money. The state has taken on the role as the total protector of the people. It is now a father figure in most peoples minds almost like a cult of government. In this cult only government can do anything good and only government can protect you. This is truth in the statist mind set. They have painted themselves into a corner with the power they wield. If we could get the political power to prove one instance where this is wrong the whole house of cards that is the need for state power will come crashing down. The war on drugs is the best place to start if we can get the political power to stop this form of government violence we all know this will improve the lives both socially and fiscally of the common person. If handled right it can turn into a domino of truth. Libertarians will be able to say, "Hey remember how we said taking away state power to fund the war on drugs with violence would help help you and then it did? Let me talk to you about the federal reserve." In short we need to bribe the people with the very things the state stole from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wuzzums Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 But isn't using the state to show how bad the state is a self defeating argument? It is now a father figure in most peoples minds almost like a cult of government. In this cult only government can do anything good and only government can protect you. This is truth in the statist mind set. They have painted themselves into a corner with the power they wield. If we could get the political power to prove one instance where this is wrong the whole house of cards that is the need for state power will come crashing down. You're assuming that after 12 years of indoctrination people are still capable of taking facts into account. If that were true the war in Iraq would have been more than enough proof to take the whole system fall down like a house of cards. But it didn't. We live in a world where facts don't matter anymore. Stefan always says it, don't mistake the world for yourself. If the world were populated by people like you and I, taking down the state would require only a few arguments. This is why the peaceful parenting approach must predate any logical arguments against the state. First we have to populate the world with people that can see the facts, then we show them the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Listen to podcast 455 - Philosophy is Laughter and 183 - Freedom. The goal of it all is to be happy yourself. It's not your job to evangelize and it doesn't work anyways. I found these podcasts to be very inspiring. I really like the idea that if you work to seize freedom in your personal life, you'll be more free than 99% of people would be if we had a free society tomorrow. Focus on your own life. Who cares about the government, it doesn't matter it's out of your control. People waste so much time thinking that if they just become a bit more knowledgeable about the big political issues and hone their arguments they'll be able to convince people. Total waste of your precious time, it's intellectual masturbation. I think the key is to be honest and try to find other people who are rational and open to the truth. And then live consistent with your values. Really listen to those podcasts it'll change the way you think about things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsayers Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I agree that peaceful parenting is the best long term solution but I don't think it will be enough. How do you know? I've made the case before for peaceful interaction as the default and studies have revealed that humans are naturally empathetic. Without trauma during the formative years, we literally couldn't speak the language of aggression. The war on drugs is the best place to start This is like saying that in order to chop a tree down, the best place to start is with the youngest branch. If we help people to understand self-ownership, how that is universalized, that it is the root of morality, that morality is objective, etc (the roots), you will simultaneously address the war on drugs, the federal reserve, government schooling, taxation, government... ALL forms of evil, including those not associated with the State. It's far more efficient. I can certainly sympathize with your anxiety over not being able to make a difference right now. However, you cannot fix a problem you don't fundamentally understand. That anxiety could be harnessed as motivation to study how people think and why. Learn how to communicate more effectively. Pursue self-knowledge so that the people you try to save can't drag you into wasting your time, etc. If you haven't already, I think Stef's An Introduction to Philosophy and The Bomb in the Brain series are fantastic places to start. I review them periodically as sort of a self-calibration. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bipedal Primate Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 The goal of it all is to be happy yourself. It's not your job to evangelize and it doesn't work anyways.I agree, I led a monthly breastfeeding attachment parenting meeting for many years, tried the 'evangelists' route, and it ended up being a total waste of my time trying to convince people who could care less. I should have invested all of my energy and resources with those who *wanted* to learn and grow.I think living your values and role-modeling what a virtuous life looks like is really the only thing you can do. Role-modeling is effortless and free advertising for what we believe in :-)There was a time in my life when I was consumed with 'making a difference' and 'helping others.' Now, looking back I realize that all that passion was just an excuse to avoid working on myself. I was purposely distracting myself with other people's problems, because facing myself was too painful.May I ask, do you spend much time on self-knowledge?Therapy has helped me tremendously, in addition to all the amazingly brilliant cool people I've met here at FDR. :-) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Takacs Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 I agree that using the state to show how bad the state is is illogical. However as you say we live in a world where to the average person the facts don't matter. We can't try and speak logically to an illogical world we can only try and dispel its illogical delusions. If we went back in time 4000 years ago we could tell people that lightning doesn't come from Zeus until we are blue in the face. It wouldn't do any good but if we set up a lightning rod we could show them our "magic" controls lightning not Zeus. Faced with this simple reality most people would be forced to abandon the dilution. The same is true with the cult of the state prove by the experiment of ending the war on drugs that state violence makes things worse not better. Most people can't follow how the war in Iraq affected them. Democrats blame republicans the right blames the left one expert says this the other says that and it all gets lost in the noise just as the state wants. If we can coax people with the idea of free money though a tax break to take a leap of faith with liberty just as they do every day with state violence the paradigm of the cult will be broken. I also can't say enough how much i agree that peaceful parenting is the keystone of this movement and will ultimately be the final nail in the coffin of the state. We must see that our children will grow up to be the extreme minorities of society. If we do nothing in the present to check the growing violence and influence of the state they will be the heretics to the cult of the state. They will not be the seen as the people of the future Nietzsche wrote about they will be the Goldsteins of 1984. We can not leave them defenseless to the ultra violent sadists the state will be sure to produce. Its like planting a seed in a barren dessert that is home to homicidal gardeners and thinking the seed will grow into a garden. I completely agree peaceful parenting is the keystone to a peaceful state free world. However that alone is like planting a seed in a barren desert full of homicidal gardeners with lawn mowers and expecting a garden. If we do nothing to stop the growth of the cult of the state our children will not be seen as the wise people of the future that Nietzsche wrote of. They will be the Goldstein's of an Orwellian nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Takacs Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 I agree that using the state to show how bad the state is, is illogical. However as you say we live in a world where to the average person the facts don't matter. We can't try and speak logically to an illogical world we can only try and dispel its illogical delusions. If we went back in time 4000 years ago we could tell people that lightning doesn't come from Zeus until we are blue in the face. It wouldn't do any good but if we set up a lightning rod we could show them our "magic" controls lightning not Zeus. Faced with this simple reality most people would be forced to abandon the dilution. The same is true with the cult of the state prove by the experiment of ending the war on drugs that state violence makes things worse not better. Most people can't follow how the war in Iraq affected them. Democrats blame republicans the right blames the left one expert says this the other says that and it all gets lost in the noise just as the state wants. If we can coax people with the idea of free money though a tax break to take a leap of faith with liberty just as they do every day with state violence the paradigm of the cult will be broken. I also can't say enough how much is agree that peaceful parenting is the keystone of this movement and will ultimately be the final nail in the coffin of the state. We must see that our children will grow up to be the extreme minorities of society. If we do nothing in the present to check the growing violence and influence of the state they will be the heretics to the cult of the state. They will not be the seen as the people of the future Nietzsche wrote about they will be the Goldstein’s of 1984. We cannot leave them defenseless to the ultra-violent sadists the state will be sure to produce. It’s like planting a seed in a barren dessert that is home to homicidal gardeners and thinking the seed will grow into a garden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucasV Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I think it is obvious we all want a peaceful and virtuous world. The only question is how do we get there. I agree that peaceful parenting is the best long term solution but I don't think it will be enough. I agree that peaceful parenting might not be enough, or even if it will be enough, why not come up with faster solutions? I have an idea of something that could work more quickly but before I get to the idea I want to write down three things Stefan has said that help explain why I think this idea will work. -First Stef has said that the state fundamentally rests on our fear of each other. -Second Stef has said that connection is how we win and bring down the state. This is similar to getting rid of irrational fears of each other.-Third Stef said that connection is essentially listening. So here is the basic idea: A live web-based karaoke show. This next part might sound crazy or grandiose, but I am fairly certain that I am a good enough listener that I am able to help connect people through music by really listening to the music in the presence of other people. I am completely open to testing this and seeing if others have the same experience. The one thing I would say is that the other listeners would have to be somewhat virtuous and the music would have to have some emotional content otherwise there would be nothing to connect to. So basically the idea is that the show would connect the listeners through music, leading to a decreased fear of each other and hopefully will make anarchism more emotionally appealing to people. Also the show could point towards FDR at the end or something in order to expose people to the ideas that are directly related to what they would be experiencing with the music and the connection. I hope this makes sense, what do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Takacs Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 I think that music is a core part of the very sole of humanity. Anything that sways minds to logic is a great thing. make that "soul" lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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