BaylorPRSer Posted October 12, 2014 Posted October 12, 2014 I'm an exceedingly angry person. I've heard Stef talk about how anger is involuntary, so the objective should not be to rid yourself of anger, but to be comfortable with it. I don't think I fall into the category of comfortable with my anger. Sometimes I find my anger distracting whether I'm at work, driving, applying for new jobs (not super-happy at my current position) or socializing. My anger levels reach the point where I am boiling probably once a day. I also cope with suicidal thoughts. Can anyone shed some light on what it looks and feels like to be comfortable with your anger? What does the journey to being comfortable with it look like? I've been journaling among other things, so is it just more introspection and self-knowledge? Sometimes my anger doesn't seem like something I was ever meant to be comfortable with. Being comfortable with the degree of anger I experience sometimes feels impossible.
Kevin Beal Posted October 12, 2014 Posted October 12, 2014 I think it depends on what exactly the discomfort is. Is it an inner critic shaming you with suggestions that you are immature for being angry? Is it a fear of your own anger and what you might do in your anger? Is it a guilt for being angry? Also, you didn't mention anyone around you. Are there people in your life who are assholes or passive aggressive or in deep denial? Also, have you heard these podcasts? FDR363 The Joy of Anger Part 1 http://media.freedomainradio.com/feed/FDR_363_The_Joy_Of_Anger_Part_1.mp3 FDR364 The Joy of Anger Part 2 http://media.freedomainradio.com/feed/FDR_364_The_Joy_Of_Anger_Part_2.mp3 FDR530 Anger Management http://media.freedomainradio.com/feed/FDR_530_Anger_Management.mp3
dsayers Posted October 12, 2014 Posted October 12, 2014 First of all, it's important to understand that rage and anger are not the same thing. Rage is destructive, even within. Secondly, what makes anger healthy is that it's an opportunity for self-knowledge. WHY are you angry? Without this, the recurrence and unresolved trauma associated with it will add a layer of frustration and desperation. I'll give you an example from my own life. For as long as I've known my parents, they've tried to control and correct my every action and thought. As an adult, I've noticed that I get angry when neighbors engage in noise polution, when motorists make sudden lane changes, etc. When I started pursuing self-knowledge, I came to the realization that the reason I was angry in these scenarios is because these people were "getting away with it" whereas I was never permitted to "get away with" anything, no matter how mundane. Have you identified WHAT makes you angry? Have you considered WHY? Keep in mind that the realization in my example would not have been possible if I saw my parents as infallible. If you're not honest with yourself as to the root of the anger, you WILL be powerless to do anything healthy about it. 1
BaylorPRSer Posted October 12, 2014 Author Posted October 12, 2014 I think it depends on what exactly the discomfort is. Is it an inner critic shaming you with suggestions that you are immature for being angry? Is it a fear of your own anger and what you might do in your anger? Is it a guilt for being angry? Also, you didn't mention anyone around you. Are there people in your life who are assholes or passive aggressive or in deep denial? Also, have you heard these podcasts? FDR363 The Joy of Anger Part 1 http://media.freedomainradio.com/feed/FDR_363_The_Joy_Of_Anger_Part_1.mp3 FDR364 The Joy of Anger Part 2 http://media.freedomainradio.com/feed/FDR_364_The_Joy_Of_Anger_Part_2.mp3 FDR530 Anger Management http://media.freedomainradio.com/feed/FDR_530_Anger_Management.mp3 It's an anger at feeling generally robbed. There's definitely a victim narrative playing in my mind a lot of the time. I was fed Adderall as a child and suffered from involuntary facial spasms that lasted until I was 19. They still show up occasionally, but they're manageable now that I've been off the drug for awhile. My parents have apologized for giving me the drug. The facial spasms coupled with the religious repression around sex were a one-two punch that eviscerated my dating life completely until I was 20. My anger stems from the fact that all of this could have been avoided. They haven't apologized for dragging me to church as they still believe "that particular activity is best within marriage." Also, I have a younger brother who incessantly insulted me to the tune of "Chris, you have no friends" or "Chris you're a dork" or "Chris you're not cool". When I developed acne he would routinely say "your zits are gross" while looking at me with a look of utter disgust. My brother eventually did apologize for "being an unbelievably shitty brother growing up" and I appreciated that; however, he still pisses me off occasionally. I think our history plays into it significantly though as he doesn't realize he's doing it. For example, my brother and some other people were talking about the film, "The Lone Survivor." I mentioned that a scene that really disturbed me was when Emile Hirsch's character was saying "my mom talked to me about what it was like, but she never said anything about this" after getting shot to pieces. I mentioned that I was rather disgusted at the thought of a mother encouraging her son to go get shot at for a living. My brother said, "well we have military families and we have to people in the military." I've heard my brother say, "I hate being told things I already know." Well, he knows that I'm aware that without people there would be no military, and that there are military families. His remark had no bearing on my being disturbed by that scene, so he inserted it for the sole purpose of being a dickhead. This has been playing in my head a lot lately and I keep thinking "damn, what a hypocritical piece of shit." There's a victim narrative when it comes to my dating life because I felt totally screwed when I was younger and thought "when I finally get a girlfriend, it will help with my social anxiety and my anxiety when it comes to the opposite sex." Well when I was 20, I did get a girlfriend, and it made the anxiety worse. At the end of my sophomore year, after just turning 20, my roommate hung himself on my ceiling fan. I had already left my college town as I knew that if I didn't get a job at the beginning of the summer, it would only get harder to find one. This was awful as we were very close. I'm 25 now and it haunts me still. That fall (junior year) I had my first girlfriend. Things started out pretty well and people said things like "you two have such good chemistry". Apparently, some of her girlfriends even asked her for advice because they wanted that in their own relationships. Things deteriorated over the course of the next year. My inability to maintain an erection about 75% of the time we had intercourse I'm sure had a lot to do with why she was having a hard time, but I made other mistakes as well. It got to the point where we were fighting a lot and I tried to break up with her. She threatened to kill herself multiple times to manipulate me back into the relationship. Then that christmas break she went home and cheated on me, when we came back for spring semester she broke up with me without mentioning that she cheated on me. She wouldn't leave me alone after breaking up with me. Eventually, she felt too guilty for hanging out with me without telling me she cheated, so she confessed. Me being completely smashed up from years of suffering, forgave her. Since then, I have apologized for the bulk of my mistakes. I called her out on threatening to kill herself and she said "oh if you think I was being manipulative than you don't know me at all." Completely devoid of any content, but she wouldn't apologize for threatening suicide against someone who had just lost a close friend to suicide a year ago. A buddy of mine told me I shouldn't have apologized for any of my mistakes. He has a dark view of women (he consumes some of the material at theredpill subreddit) and said "if you did it for your own moral sanity, that's fine, but she doesn't think your a better person for admitting you're wrong, and you will NEVER get that call where she acknowledges how wrong her actions were." She's done and said other things that pissed me off as well. I don't talk to her much anymore, but I still feel angry as fuck toward her. I haven't listened to those podcasts and I will. Thank you very much Kevin. First of all, it's important to understand that rage and anger are not the same thing. Rage is destructive, even within. Secondly, what makes anger healthy is that it's an opportunity for self-knowledge. WHY are you angry? Without this, the recurrence and unresolved trauma associated with it will add a layer of frustration and desperation. I'll give you an example from my own life. For as long as I've known my parents, they've tried to control and correct my every action and thought. As an adult, I've noticed that I get angry when neighbors engage in noise polution, when motorists make sudden lane changes, etc. When I started pursuing self-knowledge, I came to the realization that the reason I was angry in these scenarios is because these people were "getting away with it" whereas I was never permitted to "get away with" anything, no matter how mundane. Have you identified WHAT makes you angry? Have you considered WHY? Keep in mind that the realization in my example would not have been possible if I saw my parents as infallible. If you're not honest with yourself as to the root of the anger, you WILL be powerless to do anything healthy about it. As you can see from the above. I have a lot of thoughts as to where it comes from. That being said, I most definitely regard what I viewed as anger to be destructive, therefore, I'm inclined to think that what I'm experiencing is rage. I associate the victim narrative with the rage because it feels similar for some reason. The victim narrative will typically follow the rage and both feel very hard to break out of.
cynicist Posted October 12, 2014 Posted October 12, 2014 Seems the pattern here is that either people won't apologize for their abusive actions or the apologies don't actually mean anything, like in the case of your brother or parents. If you are still in the proximity of some of these people it would make sense that you feel an appropriate level of anger/rage towards them. It's like if I were a mechanic and you were bringing me a car because it sounds loud, I'd have to tell you it's just what happens when you turn on the ignition. I like Stefan's analogy of anger being your immune system for toxic people. Anger isn't something you should 'feel comfortable' around. Imagine if you had the flu and went to go ask a doctor how to make your body 'more comfortable' with the illness since the headaches and fever are distracting you at work. He would hopefully tell you that those are good signs, that your body is responding appropriately, and that if you didn't feel that way THEN there would be cause for concern. (Yes you might take something to help with the symptoms, but those symptoms only go away once your immune system has killed the intruders) Maybe I just don't know the details and you aren't in contact with any of these people, in which case I'd say visiting a therapist would be a good choice. If you are though, I would stop trying to figure out how to make that a more comfortable situation and start thinking about why you are still around them. 1
BaylorPRSer Posted October 13, 2014 Author Posted October 13, 2014 Seems the pattern here is that either people won't apologize for their abusive actions or the apologies don't actually mean anything, like in the case of your brother or parents. If you are still in the proximity of some of these people it would make sense that you feel an appropriate level of anger/rage towards them. It's like if I were a mechanic and you were bringing me a car because it sounds loud, I'd have to tell you it's just what happens when you turn on the ignition. I like Stefan's analogy of anger being your immune system for toxic people. Anger isn't something you should 'feel comfortable' around. Imagine if you had the flu and went to go ask a doctor how to make your body 'more comfortable' with the illness since the headaches and fever are distracting you at work. He would hopefully tell you that those are good signs, that your body is responding appropriately, and that if you didn't feel that way THEN there would be cause for concern. (Yes you might take something to help with the symptoms, but those symptoms only go away once your immune system has killed the intruders) Maybe I just don't know the details and you aren't in contact with any of these people, in which case I'd say visiting a therapist would be a good choice. If you are though, I would stop trying to figure out how to make that a more comfortable situation and start thinking about why you are still around them. The reason I'm still around them is because nothing they do currently warrants cutting them out. My brother's recent incident doesn't seem to be significant enough to warrant me giving up on seeing him. My parents both routinely do kind things for me and were helping me pay for therapy for awhile. They've apologized for a lot, we're just not totally healed yet. Maybe, it's not possible to heal with our history. I'm still figuring that out.
cynicist Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 The reason I'm still around them is because nothing they do currently warrants cutting them out. My brother's recent incident doesn't seem to be significant enough to warrant me giving up on seeing him. My parents both routinely do kind things for me and were helping me pay for therapy for awhile. They've apologized for a lot, we're just not totally healed yet. Maybe, it's not possible to heal with our history. I'm still figuring that out. If you can talk to them about your anger in a productive way then by all means keep going. I had imagined that you were silently stewing over these grievances. If you can't talk about what is bothering you with them then it makes sense that it would build up and boil over eventually. I see the options as basically: accept that you will be this angry around them, talk to them about your anger and try to work something out so that it can diminish some, or leave. (not necessarily cut them out, but leave to get some space and see how your mood changes)
BaylorPRSer Posted October 14, 2014 Author Posted October 14, 2014 If you can talk to them about your anger in a productive way then by all means keep going. I had imagined that you were silently stewing over these grievances. If you can't talk about what is bothering you with them then it makes sense that it would build up and boil over eventually. I see the options as basically: accept that you will be this angry around them, talk to them about your anger and try to work something out so that it can diminish some, or leave. (not necessarily cut them out, but leave to get some space and see how your mood changes) Thank you Robert. I think I see some value in this. I'm going to discuss my anger with people who upset me and give myself some time away from them after to see what happens.
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