aFireInside Posted October 12, 2014 Posted October 12, 2014 This is amazing, wow. I know allot of free market people don't like tesla motors but this is just amazing.
Triumph Posted October 13, 2014 Posted October 13, 2014 Dual electric motors was something I hypothosized years ago in college. As you don't need fuel, carburetor, and exhaust for an electric motor it is much easier to have two. The weight gained by an extra motor can easily be made up for by losing the power train. And a second motor mean much much better efficience compared to the energy lost through friction in the power train. They just had to resolve the issue of running two motors off the same battery and program the motors to be in sync for maximum efficiency. I still hate Tesla though. If I remember the batteries are insanely expensive as there is a shortage on litium without new sources to mine it from. And they get government subsidies to artificially being costs down and make it profitable. My info is dated though.
aFireInside Posted October 14, 2014 Author Posted October 14, 2014 I still hate Tesla though. If I remember the batteries are insanely expensive as there is a shortage on litium without new sources to mine it from. And they get government subsidies to artificially being costs down and make it profitable. My info is dated though. You think that gasoline is not subsidized ? and there is no shortage. The thing is that its not worth the price to drill for it. ( but thats going to change when there is more demand) http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/08/03/is-there-enough-lithium-to-feed-teslas-gigafactory/ Your down playing what Tesla did. Thats an extremely cool thing, you mentioned that people knew about this. Yes but no one did it. thats all that matters.
shirgall Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 You think that gasoline is not subsidized ? It's taxed AND subsidized, just enough that so many people get a piece of the action it's become overtly corrupt. http://www.api.org/oil-and-natural-gas-overview/industry-economics/fuel-taxes http://priceofoil.org/2014/07/09/cashing-in-on-all-of-the-above-u-s-fossil-fuel-production-subsidies-under-obama/
Triumph Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 You think that gasoline is not subsidized ? and there is no shortage. The thing is that its not worth the price to drill for it. ( but thats going to change when there is more demand) http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/08/03/is-there-enough-lithium-to-feed-teslas-gigafactory/ Your down playing what they Tesla did. Thats an extremely cool thing, you mentioned that people knew about this. Yes but no one did it. thats all that matters. It is extremely cool. But also extremely wasteful. If given the choice between producing 1 Tesla car or 1000 laptops or 10,000 cellphones you would choose a car that only a rich man could afford? Yay those of us who can look on in envy while pedalling a bicycle. The easy solution to all of this is to simply find an alternative battery. But their not going to do that while they are being subsidized. Two motors is nothing new, big deisel scrapers have a front and rear engine...they figured it out in the 70s.
Magenta Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 I know allot of free market people don't like tesla motors but this is just amazing. I have not heard this argument before, would you mind sharing the ideas or a link for further reading?
aFireInside Posted October 14, 2014 Author Posted October 14, 2014 I have not heard this argument before, would you mind sharing the ideas or a link for further reading? Basically they say that Tesla motors got government loans when they didn't need them. And the argument made above by the first response.
dsayers Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 It is extremely cool. But also extremely wasteful. If given the choice between producing 1 Tesla car or 1000 laptops or 10,000 cellphones you would choose a car that only a rich man could afford? Yay those of us who can look on in envy while pedalling a bicycle. When laptops came out, people said, "It is extremely cool, but also extremely wasteful. Yay those of us who can look on in envy while snicking our abacuses." When cellphones came out, people said, "It is extremely cool, but also extremely wasteful. Yay those of us who can look on in envy while dialing our rotary phones." One of the biggest errors of the anti-wealthy attitude is that the wealthy help bankroll this stuff to recoup startup and further R&D, which in turn puts the technology into the hands of the less wealthy. 5
Triumph Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 When laptops came out, people said, "It is extremely cool, but also extremely wasteful. Yay those of us who can look on in envy while snicking our abacuses." When cellphones came out, people said, "It is extremely cool, but also extremely wasteful. Yay those of us who can look on in envy while dialing our rotary phones." One of the biggest errors of the anti-wealthy attitude is that the wealthy help bankroll this stuff to recoup startup and further R&D, which in turn puts the technology into the hands of the less wealth See you have it completely ass-backwards... after the first prototypes they ran the numbers and Tesla cars were going to cost over $500,000 to break even. But to be marketable to the general public (who apparently is rich as fuck just not quite as rich) they wanted to be able to sell them for $200,000. Politicians to the rescue with subsidies. Now everyone gets to pay for rich enviromentalists' dream cars. And speaking of laptops and cell phones... how long do their batteries last before you need a new one. Yeah, guess how long the most expensive component on a half a million dollar car is going to last before it needs a new one? I'm not anti-wealthy, just anti-stupid which maybe why you don't seem to like me. Why do you guys think the major car companies aren't interested in electric cars? Cuz they can't produce them. Fuck no, because they can't mass produce them. It is just logistially impossible at this time. They are so stupidly expensive for a car with very practical limitations on range that the average driver would refuse to buy because it can't drive to grandma's house and back on christmas day. Reaching dead ends in technology happens all the time. Sometimes the technology doesn't work, sometimes it's a safety issue, sometimes there isn't enough of a required material, and sometimes it's just a practicality issue. The best thing to do is shelve it, until such time someone finds a solution to the dead end. The free market is the best way of doing that.
dsayers Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 I'm not anti-wealthy, just anti-stupid which maybe why you don't seem to like me. I don't know you except now I know that you are willing to take a conversation about something objective and make it personal. It is true that I find that to be off-putting, but this is something that arose as a result of your claim, not present before it. I never said one word about YOU before this post at all. For that matter, I have yet to say one word about Tesla or the D. Making your post full of assumption and accusation. Read: unprocessed trauma that I most certainly was not the source of. 1
Triumph Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 ... My apologies, I took your first post as an insult when I shouldn't have.
aFireInside Posted October 15, 2014 Author Posted October 15, 2014 I noticed that no one commented on the auto pilot. That was the most impressive part. The car could pretty much drive and park itself.
PatrickC Posted October 15, 2014 Posted October 15, 2014 I noticed that no one commented on the auto pilot. That was the most impressive part. The car could pretty much drive and park itself. Yes, I'd like to see that in operation. Pretty awesome, if it can be done. Imagine if you could just convert the two seats into a bed and you wouldn't even have to think about the tiredness of driving long distances. That said, I hear the current battery life limits you to around 500 km in one go. I wonder, if the tech is available with electric cars, why not petrol driven ones? Is it to do with the mechanical response time perhaps? Or is it just something that hasn't particularly interested major car manufacturers or health & Safety issues etc. I write from a place of ignorance here of course, but one aspect I always considered as quite limiting for electric cars was the charging time. Unlike petrol of course, which brings an immediate power source, batteries need to charged, which can take a couple of hours at least and perhaps a lot longer with these car batteries. I guess in future they might develop a generic battery which can fit all cars and you just exchange your drained battery with a fully charged one perhaps. But I'm guessing this would be a long way off for now. Interesting, Elon discusses here the legal and practical implications of driving 'auto pilot. He also suggests that 'fully autonomous driving' will be available in 5 - 6 years with a couple of years for the regulatory stipulations to be put in place. On an aside, despite it's less than free market origins, Tesla could prove to be quite a game changer in this regard.
iHuman Posted October 15, 2014 Posted October 15, 2014 Auto Pilot is an interesting Innovation, the problem is in insuring that their is no way for it to be used for nefarious purposes. (which I personally include remote shutdown/warrant-less location tracking by LEO/Fed Agencies etc)
PatrickC Posted October 15, 2014 Posted October 15, 2014 Auto Pilot is an interesting Innovation, the problem is in insuring that their is no way for it to be used for nefarious purposes. (which I personally include remote shutdown/warrant-less location tracking by LEO/Fed Agencies etc) I think in this post Snowden age, we would probably have to expect that the state would at the very least keep tracking records, if not not more. That said, it wouldn't put me off, as the convenience would far outstrip the intrusion.
aFireInside Posted October 19, 2014 Author Posted October 19, 2014 Yes, I'd like to see that in operation. Pretty awesome, if it can be done. Imagine if you could just convert the two seats into a bed and you wouldn't even have to think about the tiredness of driving long distances. That said, I hear the current battery life limits you to around 500 km in one go. I wonder, if the tech is available with electric cars, why not petrol driven ones? Is it to do with the mechanical response time perhaps? Or is it just something that hasn't particularly interested major car manufacturers or health & Safety issues etc. I write from a place of ignorance here of course, but one aspect I always considered as quite limiting for electric cars was the charging time. Unlike petrol of course, which brings an immediate power source, batteries need to charged, which can take a couple of hours at least and perhaps a lot longer with these car batteries. I guess in future they might develop a generic battery which can fit all cars and you just exchange your drained battery with a fully charged one perhaps. But I'm guessing this would be a long way off for now. Interesting, Elon discusses here the legal and practical implications of driving 'auto pilot. He also suggests that 'fully autonomous driving' will be available in 5 - 6 years with a couple of years for the regulatory stipulations to be put in place. On an aside, despite it's less than free market origins, Tesla could prove to be quite a game changer in this regard. Great post man, yeah I'm really excited to see what auto manufacturers will do in a couple of years.
Recommended Posts