Fighting Santa Claus belief

[VParkh]

I was thinking about how Santa Claus belief affects child's phychology.

I remember as a child I was told that santa will bring me presents if I will be a good boy, so after that being told I was cleaning up the house for about hour certain that this guy will appreciate it. So sick. 

And another awful episode was when I had to lie my little brother about santa claus. It was when I already knew that was a lie but was convinced that my brother should not know it. I've always felt terrible for that.

 

And I am wondering how comes there so many atheist movements that fight against believe in god, but I've never heard of somebody fighting against this cristmas lie. It may be much more easier but not less important I think.

[dsayers]

I've heard people stand up about it. I think the main reason it doesn't get as much attention is because it doesn't directly lead to mass murder the way formal religions do and because it's a myth that is eventually revealed as such. Not trying to say it's any less damaging since repealed or not, it takes place during the crucial formative years. It not only promotes an unhealthy dependence on artificial incentives, but it offsets the ability to learn rational thought.

[Lars]

The myth of Santa Claus seems designed to teach children that an inexplicably reality-bending external entity will reward them if they comply with the arbitrary rules of their elders.

 

Most adults have yet to give up on "Santa Claus"...

[Livemike]

I apparently figured out early that Santa was BS.  So I told my mum (my only source for this story btw) who then told me that people who didn't believe in Santa wouldn't get presents, and I immediately said I did believe. 

Is it just me or is that wrong on about 3 or 4 levels.

[lbnuke]

This story comes up every year for me. My wife, parents, sister, and friends all give me grief about choosing the path I choose: to not perpetuate the myth of Santa Claus with my kids or any others.

VParkh, I appreciate the sharing of the perspective of the older sibling that, although already akin to the story of Santa Clause and the lie it is, is asked to continue the lie. How proper is this in representing the myth of country, family, culture, religion, etc.?

 

My most challenging discussions in this matter are with people who openly admit it's wrong to lie to our children, but then continue the story, myth, and mystery of Santa Clause. And I find that most people cannot connect the two. My frustration arises when these same people want a smooth, respectful transition through the teenage years, without seeing the psychological priming that the parents are committing the children to by lies like Santa Clause, the easter bunny, Jesus, religion, god, etc.

 

What I also find hard to swallow this time of year is the elf on the shelf. For those of you that don't know the story, there is a stuffed animal elf that moves throughout the house each day, watching the children and reporting back to Santa about whether the children are being good or not. When the children are acting out, the elf is then pointed to and referenced as reporting to Santa about their behavior. I'm no psychologist, but I would like to hear some of the experts speak on the matter, specifically dealing with Christmas.

[TheFreeMarketIsAnarchy]

 

Anyone else a Calvin and Hobbes fan? I used to read it a lot, always remember this one! 

 

On a more serious note I have always been upset by the idea of lying to kids about Santa, definitely not something I want to do if I ever have kids of my own. I think it is used as a way to manipulate children into having to be 'well behaved' (defined by whatever the adults want them to do) during the holiday season through using the threat of no presents as a punishment. Pretty awful stuff but is treated as if it's all just a bit of fun to directly lie to children because its framed as if its all for their own enjoyment. As if there isn't enough for kids to enjoy about the holiday season without making them believe in myths? Its messed up too because the parents when perpetuating the Santa story to their kids know fine well its all a lie but tell them it anyway which is even worse in a way than the religious stuff (not making excuses for this whatsoever) because at least the parents often believe that stuff themselves when they pass it on. I think its confusing for the child to find out it was all a lie and their parents knew that and didn't believe it themselves but told them it was true anyway. There's a sense of betrayal and mistrust that goes with that I think. 

[ParaSait]

I love to teach things to my 5 & 10 year old half-sisters. I was thinking of telling them about St Nicholas and Santa being fictitious beings this December. Or rather, ideally, I want to guide them in reasoning it out for themselves, basically by Socratic questioning.

However, I'm not sure how this will affect them. I'm kind of concerned because it means I may be the one to pop a bubble of trust between them and their parents. Think it's a good idea? Please tell me what you think.

[maieesa]

I love to teach things to my 5 & 10 year old half-sisters. I was thinking of telling them about St Nicholas and Santa being fictitious beings this December. Or rather, ideally, I want to guide them in reasoning it out for themselves, basically by Socratic questioning.

However, I'm not sure how this will affect them. I'm kind of concerned because it means I may be the one to pop a bubble of trust between them and their parents. Think it's a good idea? Please tell me what you think.

 

One of my dearest friends has a one year old and we argue about this.  I do think it is a good idea to guide them toward understanding the mythology and this is where I have left it with my girlfriend.  She says that she thinks that it is fun and she will never use it as a manipulation.. She does not feel that it will be lying to him, because she will teach him that it is a myth from many different cultures and that she believes in santa claus herself.  Here is where we disagree: there is no way to give a child gifts and tell them that they are from santa claus, without lying.  And I told her that my biggest issue is her lying to her son, and the second issue is that this kind of lie implies an expectation of collusion from (others around her, i.e.:  ) me, and that I will not do that.  So, we have had this honest discussion, and she still wants me in his life.  How could she not?

 

F*** it! The truth will set you free. And the wee ones as well. 

 

 

[yagami]

I remember when I figured it out. I was told to go to my room and I did. I had to go to the restroom so I opened my door and I saw my parents carrying presents in the hallway. I didn't understand why they would be carrying presents at first because of course presents just showed up on Christmas every year. Once I sat down and thought about it I felt pretty betrayed. Couldn't believe they lied to me. The tooth fairy is just as bad. I figured that one out on my own. I took out a tooth and didn't say anything and I didn't get a quarter under my pillow. I mean how do parents think this is gonna end. Not with everyone laughing that's for sure. 

[McBeer]

Santa was an obvious lie in which my parents couldn't claim ignorance.

I always hoped that when I proved that they were lying I would finally get some truth from them.

When they finally admitted that Santa wasn't real, they changed their focus to Jesus.

I asked "What if I don't believe in Jesus either?"

I was told if I didn't believe in Jesus I wouldn't get any presents.

 

It was impossible for me to be religious when the primary argument was that if I didn't believe I wouldn't get presents.

 

Of course I lied to them. Oh yeah I totally believe. Praise Jesus. Now where are my presents?

[J. D. Stembal]

I love to teach things to my 5 & 10 year old half-sisters. I was thinking of telling them about St Nicholas and Santa being fictitious beings this December. Or rather, ideally, I want to guide them in reasoning it out for themselves, basically by Socratic questioning.

However, I'm not sure how this will affect them. I'm kind of concerned because it means I may be the one to pop a bubble of trust between them and their parents. Think it's a good idea? Please tell me what you think.

 

You aren't popping any bubbles. The trust is already under attack.

 

Children instinctively know that Santa and his old college roommate, Jesus, are fantasies. They can't figure out why their parents are perpetuating the myth so desperately, and rather than find out the reason, they will simply go along with the charade. Show them that one elder person in their lives isn't completely delusional, and this may have an astounding affect on their self-confidence, now and in the future.

 

Last time I visited my family, my half-brother asked my dad to read him the Ten Commandments from the Old Testament because he had heard about them in school. He's nine and obsessed with capital punishment, federal agents, and imprisonment. I feel badly for him, but there's nothing I can do to help at this point. He has already turned his admiration toward state authority.

 

I suppose if he had not thrown his lot in with the statists, like I reluctantly did in my time, he would be cracked out on prescription drugs in order to make him behave.

[WasatchMan]

I think the Santa Clause myth fundamentally shapes someones metaphysics towards superstitions and away from the law of identity if they are told it as truth.  Any way to destroy this tradition of lieing to children is great.

[hannahbanana]

I remember it seeming like a given for a while that Santa wasn't real...but I was resistant to the thought for a long time, because I was confused as to why my parents would tell me Santa was real if he wasn't. I remember asking my mom, and at least she didn't get mad at me. She said something like how Santa was a representation of the generous and giving spirit of Christmas, so even if he wasn't real, he was a good symbol. Sounds corny, I know, and probably an excuse she made so she could justify perpetuating a myth.

[Sal9000]

Am I the only one who was never told about Santa?

[bootoo]

I have a (almost) 2 year old, and all the other parents im around have been going on about this magic elf - they say you get a toy elf and you move it around the house every day, you tell the kid the elf is watching and he is reporting back to santa

 

i guess overall its a control mechanism as much as it is getting the kids excited for christmas

 

but the lengths people go to with these things seems absurd, if you touch the thing its magic goes away, so they keep it out of reach of hte kids, then they set it up so the thing is found in the cupboard having eaten some cookies, or got into the make up - you can imagine

 

 

 

 

All i could think was, why would you make so much effort to make your kid believe something thats not real? should you really be training your kid to believe in magic? needless to say, im not doing the elf thing