yagami Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Well I have something to get off my chest. I've been thinking about this for a few weeks now and the more I think about it without speaking to the community about it the more it upsets me. I want to talk about those that aren't donating. Now I am not convinced by Stephs' argument that we should donate to his show because we are consuming a product and should pay for it what we think it is worth. The reason I donate is much different. I donate because I have been convinced that this is the best way (by a large margin) to get us to a free and peaceful society. I can talk to people about peaceful parenting and all that but my contribution will be limited the people I know and am actually able to convince. I think we can all agree that Steph is very convincing and articulate and can probably argue the message of peaceful parenting better than any of us. So I believe donating to the guy who speaks the best and has the platform to do so only makes sense. All you people out there who have been convinced that peaceful parenting IS the best way to get us to a peaceful society and you believe FDR IS the best vehicle for that and you still do not donate when you can are the problem. It is people like you that are keeping us where we are. You might as well be a statist if you are going to just sit on the sidelines when you KNOW society is falling apart around you and you know how to fix it. If you are one of these people you really shouldn't be complaining about the faults of statist when you are are holding us all back. Of course this only applies to those that can donate and dont donate and have been convinced FDR is the best vehicle for spreading the message. If you fall into that category shame on you! Those are my thoughts anyway. What do you guys think? 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysterionMuffles Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Yeah I hear ya, I appreciate your thoughts, Yagami. When I start my job next week, I'm overdue for another donation, it's been a while. It's kinda of like...the people who listen for free and come to the boards or chatroom all for free are being subsidized by the ones who have paid up to help this place stay in tact. And FDR is the best way to spread the word because, although there are peaceful parenting practices elsewhere, to have it backed up with philosophical reasoning, it's a lethal weapon against evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirgall Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Frankly, I see the free availability of material as outreach to attract the few customers that will pay. It is abundantly clear that the team spends time looking at what is effective and what is not. So, for example, Stef spends less time arguing with us on the forum and more time posting videos that more people see. This is not an obvious choice from a distance. It's also clear he gets a lot of material from the call-in shows. It sharpens his saw, is often very timely, and gives him material to whittle down for the "stinger" style videos, which get wide play. Is there benefit from chasing down "freeloaders" comparable to the above? I think he gets more mileage from the occasional reminder, of "hey, if you can pay, please do" (which figure more prominently in the call-in shows than the stingers) than guilt tripping or creating tons of more content for for the anointed few. In the long run the idea of giving value for value sinks into the people we want it to sink into. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. D. Stembal Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I disagree with Yagami's premise. I don't think FDR is necessarily the best vehicle for promoting a free and peaceful society. Nor is Stefan necessarily the most articulate or effective. The shows are compelling, to be sure, but who are we to say, "This is the most effective means to achieve our goal, therefore, we must donate to it or we are useless freeloaders?" That's a little too authoritarian for comfort. Stefan has often said that there are many other ways to promote voluntarism or the message of non-aggression. I would argue that one child being raised peacefully is worth more than thousands of dollars in contributions to the show, so if you are a peaceful parent, don't worry about donations to the show. If you want to donate, that fine, but those resources are probably much better off remaining the hands of the peaceful family. FDR may not always be the best venue for promoting a peaceful society. What happens if and when FDR closes up shop? Who will pick up the mantle of philosophy and continue to spread it? The answer is everyone. Spreading your own virtue is more effective (and fulfilling) in the long run than monetary donations. Also, donations have to come from a desire to do good as shirgall said, "Value for value." You can't wheedle and guilt people into action. That's not the nature of voluntarism. To allude to a recent podcast, we shouldn't strive to be like the nagging feminists who are so unattractive that they have to resort to emotional bullying to get the attention they want. I agree the show is valuable but it is just one step on the way toward a brighter future. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsayers Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 The only thing you can know about a person who doesn't have a donator badge under their name is that they haven't donated recently. It doesn't tell you why. Please understand that the following is meant for understandings's sake and that I'm not defending the lack of exchange of value for value. We live in a world of broken people. This means a few things. For one, the integrity of exchanging value for value is not a prevalent one. This is due in part to the next item: the impact of the State. Not only does the State take from everybody, giving everybody less to give, but it also justifies a lack of self-responsibility. "Somebody else will take care of it." Notice how they're always asking what OTHER PEOPLE would do? Finally, the people that benefit the most from FDR are the people that were isolated and abused to the point of crippling their ability to store value and function socially and in society. Again, not defending the lack of integrity that is failing to exchange value for value. I do however think it's dismissive and a bit counter-intuitive to refer or even think of them as freeloaders. Free will means that some people will give less than something's worth and some will give much more. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I'm currently in the category of "can't pay", so I promote Stef's work if it's relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibble Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I'm currently in the category of "can't pay", so I promote Stef's work if it's relevant. Right. Just because someone can't donate money doesn't mean they can't 'donate' time by sharing videos and talking to people about FDR, peaceful parenting, UPB, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcAnthony Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I will definitely go on the stand as saying that although I have been unable to donate monetarily as of yet, I have used a considerable amount of time and effort promoting Stefan and the message of FDR. Im currently working on getting my lap top back up and running so to use my talents in graphic design to also help promote FDR. For now this is what I can offer to the good of humanity... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMX2010 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I admire yagami's enthusiasm, but I disagree with his conclusion that FDR is the best way to promote the message. No, the best way to promote the message is to embody the message. When we've become who we're meant to be, then we'll embody the message. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysterionMuffles Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I admire yagami's enthusiasm, but I disagree with his conclusion that FDR is the best way to promote the message. No, the best way to promote the message is to embody the message. When we've become who we're meant to be, then we'll embody the message. good point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_LiveFree_ Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I admire yagami's enthusiasm, but I disagree with his conclusion that FDR is the best way to promote the message. No, the best way to promote the message is to embody the message. When we've become who we're meant to be, then we'll embody the message. good point! Agreed. FDR is an academy with the purpose of creating more philosophers. The true success of FDR will not be in changing the world, whatever that means. What we are working for will take many more people like Stefan. When there are multiple philosophy podcasts running which talk about peaceful parenting, when there are windbags of peaceful parenting chattiness rampant on the airwaves, when Stefan becomes irrelevant, that is when FDR is a success. I've seen people who want to treat philosophy like it's a political campaign. Certainly getting the word out is an important aspect, but it is tertiary to the real work, which is internal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
engardeknave Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 The only thing you can know about a person who doesn't have a donator badge under their name is that they haven't donated recently False. You can infer nothing about donation history by someone not having a donor badge. Regardless of the merit of donating to a cause like FDR, status symbols are a means of buying respect and tend to promote circle-jerks. And they are so empty and meaningless on the Internet. 'I posted xxxx times!!!' 'I donated $xxx!' So I suppose what I'm saying here is you don't need a little badge if you have words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yagami Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 I don't want to give the impression that if you don't donate you are somehow a bad person or anything. And I don't want people to think that I have objectively think there is no one better at articulating the message. What im saying is if in your mind you have been convinced this is the best way then by not donating you are holding us all back. If you think there is a better way then you don't fall into the category of people im referring to. And yes those that cant donate monetarily because of constraints that is completely understandable. I don't make a lot of money but before I started donating I realized just how much crap I was buying that I didn't need. Stuff like going out to eat not cooking spending money on video games and other stuff. Every time I did it I couldn't help but think "this is money I could have donated to help spread the message but im wasting it on this thing I don't need." So that finally kept eating at me until the point where I just gave in and stopped spending money on things I didn't need and started donating. Im better off in so many ways. Not only do I feel better but I also cook just about everyday now and eat healthier. Another thing I noticed is that the time it takes me to get dressed leave the house go to the drive through bring the food back then eat is about the same amount of time it would take me to cook something. So I finally ran out of excuses and donated. I encourage everyone to really think about if you really are unable to donate or are you just making excuses for yourself. Im not saying you have to be a philo king like me but just give it some thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K.o.t.H. Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 I'm new here and don't really know much about the donation badges or status, all I can say is that after donating it made me feel happy, like I was really part of something great that I want to continue. I am listening to the podcasts, in order, starting at podcast 0. I have really enjoyed them so far and it has made me much better at debating(AFM, etc.) Only a few months into FDR and I have probably consumed more value in material than I have donated. Stef's advice is really helping with my 3yr old girl, and I can't put a price on that. I will donate what I can, for as long as possible, to keep Stef motivated and knowing that he is making a difference, as well as the whole FDR crew and board members. Maybe we can come up with some creative ways to raise money for the show where even people who can't pay could help with. I'll work on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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