Brother on the "wrong path"?

[Nutrigirl26]

Let me start by saying that I am 21 and my brother is only 17 years old. He has been in and out of local police stations for the past two years and just got out of a juvenile detention center that practiced military style "teaching" as it was also a place where kids could finish high school courses if they dropped out of school prior to being thrown in there. It makes me sick every time I think about him being in there. My brother, Anthony, was always the shy quiet kid that would only say something when he felt he really needed to add something to the conversation. He was incredibly bright, he still is in my opinion, and funny as well which really made our childhoods a tiny bit more bearable. In my modest opinion, Anthony and I are very similar in that we have perfected the "humor to get out of uncomfortable situations" type thing that I know a lot of people also experience, so we have always had our humor to comfort us and find us a lot of friends. And for a long time us joking around with each other was the only thing we had and the only way that we could bond. We were never really "close" but we would try to find tiny moments to be comforted by each other. Feel free to ask any questions about that if you want.

 

More to the point, a couple years ago he kind of lost it. He started failing all of his classes (not that I care much for public school), he began to act very much like our dad, he stopped caring about virtually everything, and he started smoking pot. Like constantly. The worst part about it for me was that I could see him slowly becoming my dad in the way he would just stare blankly at you when you tried to talk to him about serious things, the way he would just completely give up any sense of empathy, or the worst of all was the way he would talk down to, scream at, threaten and totally degrade my mother to the point where I was the only person she could actually talk to. And boy did she talk to me.... I mean for hours at a time sometimes she would just get on these rants about how dad is horrible or how Anthony is going down the "wrong path" or how her boss at work is incompetent and makes her life miserable. And I would be stuck there not being able to leave or tell her that I really don't have the emotional capacity to hold all of my crap let alone with all her crap. Anyway, off the tangent now please. So the whole pot smoking phase didn't alarm me as much as it did with my mom of course, because to her it was only about my brother breaking the law, but with me I knew why he was doing it and that was when I really tried to connect with him more so he could have someone to talk to. I know it was kind of late for me to do that, but I will admit this right up front, I was not the best sister to him. I never did anything bad to him, but I do feel like I should have been there more for him emotionally and physically. But you have to understand, everything in my brain was constantly telling me to find ways to get out of the house and away from the craziness by sleeping over at friend's houses or finding things to do at school or I even took church activities over my family. Yep that's right, we were raised Christian, imagine that. As if that didn't help my brother's insane childhood. 

 

He got into some pretty deep shit putting it mildly. He was constantly breaking parole and always going out getting stoned and coming home smelling like alcohol or wandering the streets with his friends. I got pretty worried about him when I began to notice it was escalating to the point where he was being picked up my cops or having to do summer school. Finally it came to him breaking into his high school with his friends and stealing food from the concession stands and smoking in the cafeteria. He was thrown into the detention center and I couldn't see him for close to 8 months... My brother. I wasn't allowed to see my own brother for 8 months. Now my parents were able to see him, but not me. He got out this past month and I was finally able to take off from work to go back down to my home town and see him. I brought games because games always made us happier and because he couldn't leave the house. He still had his ankle bracelet on so he was confined. And when I called him about one week prior, he sounded really excited to see me. He said, "I don't care what we do, I just want to hang with you. We could just stare at the stars for all I care, just as long as you come down". I remember that because it made me feel so happy and hopeful about forming an actual sibling relationship with him at some point down the road. So I get all excited driving down there because my mom just called me and told me Anthony keeps asking about when I was coming down. Of course when she told me he'd been up since like 6 am(that's what time his officers woke him up every day, so he just naturally wakes up that early and I didn't think about that) and has been waiting for me to get there for so long it made me feel like I failed him yet again and wasn't a good sister to him. It was around noon when my mom called and if I had thought about him waking up so early, I would have gotten there by like 9 or so.

 

So the second I open the door he is sitting on the couch and I say hi and smile and all that and he gave me a slight grin of sorts; nothing that says he was truly happy to see me. I was a little hurt by his lack of enthusiasm but I figured he was a little upset by how late I got there. So I walked over to him and sat down on the couch next to him and tried to talk to him but he couldn't take his eyes away from his phone long enough to give me an actual greeting. He continued with this cold and indifferent sentiment virtually the entire time I was there. I asked him if he wanted to play a game with me and he said no. So I asked him if he wanted to go outside and he said no. He turned down every single one of my ideas. Finally when I asked him if he had any ideas, he sounded really annoyed and told me that there's nothing to do in the house. He sounded depressed. I was pretty understandable about his emotional state. What he was doing and how he was treating me was extremely hurtful since that's exactly the way my dad used to treat me, like he'd rather just not have me there or something. So I asked my mom if she wanted to play, hoping that if Anthony saw us playing and having a good time, he'd loosen up a bit and come join us. And there was a moment when he leaned off the couch to get a better look and his expression lightened so I asked him if he'd like to join since the game is better played with three people instead of two but he immediately leaned back in his seat and said no. Then my mom caught the disappointment on my face and asked him why I even came down if he wasn't going to interact with me. And that I came down just to see and spend time with him. Then his reply was "I don't know why she came down, she should just go home I guess." It pretty much killed me. I cried all the way home and had a very emotional conversation with my boyfriend about it as well. 

 

I was hoping for some advice on how to handle this complex "relationship", if you can call it that. I am going down to my house again in a week and I honestly don't know if I should just keep plugging away at improving our relationship or if I should just let it be for now. If anyone has a similar situation that could help me figure things out it would be most helpful. Thank you for reading all of this. It is very personal and I appreciate you taking the time to listen to me.

 

[Spenc]

I don't know what I can really add to help you here.

 

1.  So sorry for your experience of rejection.  I can sense how sharp those words were that your brother said when he suggested you just leave.

 

2. You weren't a bad sister, there was not really anything you could do, or at least that's my hypothesis on the limited info.  What do you think would happen if your brother and you had created a meaningful bond prior tom him really slipping deeply into trouble?  How would that have been treated by your parents, especially your father?  Provide a little more info about your dad.  You described him through your brother's actions, rather than singly.  You referred to your brother's laziness, apathy and pot use as him turning into your dad.  But speak directly about your dad instead.

 

3.  Have you said clearly and directly, "You are turning into dad!"  If he has the capacity to have a response in the moment, how would he respond to you saying that?  Are you being out front with your perspective and fears regarding the path he is on?

 

4.  It sounds like you both had a troubled childhood.  He doesn't seem to wish to accept and grieve his own, but would he experience empathy if you just had a unilateral talk about your own experience?  It sounds like neglect was a big problem.  If you just talked about your experience as a child, why it hurts you so much, why you take it so seriously now in adulthood and why you need to embrace the past and grieve for your childhood years lost....would he listen?  Perhaps you would luck out and his apathy would work to your favour here, like, he habitually just kind of becomes a lump on the couch it seems from your story.  Maybe his habit of being a lump would keep him [at least physically] present to hear you.  And to hear you offer an ear to ear in return.  Would he show empathy? 

 

5.  Is your dad out of the picture now?  Are you talking to your mom about how she ever got into that relationship, and what signs she should have picked up on in hindsight before she got involved with him?

[dsayers]

Hello, Nutrigirl26. Welcome to the forums. I would be interested in hearing how you came to find this forum and how familiar you are with it. Also, thank you for sharing this story. I don't know you, but I have read your story and have some thoughts I'd like to share with you about it.

 

I don't know if self-knowledge is something that is of importance to you. I think you could benefit from more of it. Reading your story, it is clear how you feel about your father and why. However, it is not clear how you feel about your mother. On the one hand, you spoke of having enough emotional distance to not let her problems burden you. On the other hand, you spoke of spending time with her and playing games together.

 

An important component of self-knowledge and wisdom in general is calling things by their proper name. It's important to understand that however you feel about your father, your mother is also responsible for. The only reason he is your father is because she chose him to be the father of her children. Which makes the act of her complaining about him to you ever worse since she chose him while you did not. She could've escaped him while you could not. She was basically saying to you that he is not fit to be a father, she put you in his charge, and what she's focused on is how that is bad for her with no consideration for you. This is an act of re-victimizing you for her benefit.

 

It sounds as if these people did not have the capacity for EARNING your trust, love, and devotion. To compensate, they employed the socially acceptable trope that "family equals virtue." They couldn't earn your loyalty, so they taught you that it was owed to them at an age when you didn't have the intellectual fortitude to resist such indoctrination. I think this was most apparent when you said:

 

I was not the best sister to him. I never did anything bad to him, but I do feel like I should have been there more for him emotionally and physically.

 

People don't choose to be a sister, so I would argue there's no such thing as a good sister or a bad sister. Your parents created a voluntary obligation to him when they chose to have him. To be there for him is their job, not yours. The guilt you are experiencing is because it was inflicted upon you that "family equals virtue." Guilt is something that we experience when we are not living in accordance with our values. Only "family equals virtue" isn't YOUR value. It was implanted in you by people who were willing to subjugate you for their own gain. This is extremely important to understand because it seems to be the root of the agony you're experiencing.

 

Now, I'm not saying that you shouldn't try to help him if you're able. I'm saying that it doesn't sound like you would be able to. If he fell off of a boat, jumping out after him wouldn't be helpful to him. You'd need to have sturdy footing and a firm grasp on the boat yourself before you could offer him a helping hand. I don't know how much of the things I've said to you so far were things you had already thought about yourself. If I'm right and it was news to you, then I think your time would be better suited pursuing SELF-knowledge. It sounds like you've had a couple decades of trauma and abuse. If you don't process it, you're not going to be able to help others in the same situation.

 

I understand that being subjected to the same abuses and abusers, you feel a bond with him and maybe that's something you can re-visit at a later time. However, I would hate to see you not get the help you need because you're too busy trying to help somebody else because you were told that's the right thing to do. I hope this has been helpful. If you have any questions or if I haven't done a good job explaining this or addressing what you're feeling, please follow up.

[J. D. Stembal]

I'm going to second what Dsayers is saying, as I often tend to do.

 

Don't blame yourself at all for being a sister, good or bad. Your brother is in a bad place, and probably has some form of chemical dependency. I spent the large part of the last twenty years being medicated, usually drunk, but it all started with pills prescribed to me to make my depression go away, which was actually latent abandonment issues from my early childhood. It all starts within the family.

 

It's on your parents to get him real help, not a tough-love military boot camp. He may be a legal adult next year, but there's no way he's leaving the nest any time soon, or he risks going to an adult prison. I would get on your mom and dad's case about therapy and rehab, and no pills! They need to admit that they made mistakes and they want to make amends for you and him. You can't fix the problem if your parents are unwilling to admit there is a problem.

 

I think you should be a little more worried about you than fixated on your brother. You've come to an internet forum on behalf of your brother. You are clearly the emotionally stronger sibling, and therefore, you're internalized all the neglect, pain, and abuse. You may have it figured out now, but what happens when you start dating? I'm assuming you are heterosexual and will subconsciously use the model of your parent's relationship, which sounds like an unmitigated disaster, for your own.

 

The third and fifth points in Spenc's reply seem particularly relevant to me. You noticed that your brother withdrew emotionally, like his father. Are you taking on the attributes of your mother? Please tell me that you came up with the forum name, Nutgirl26, because you like eating nuts. Nut or nutty is a euphemism for crazy, and I hope you haven't internalized the idea that you are crazy like your mother is. Or, if you have, that you are aware of it.

 

 

But you have to understand, everything in my brain was constantly telling me to find ways to get out of the house and away from the craziness by sleeping over at friend's houses or finding things to do at school or I even took church activities over my family. Yep that's right, we were raised Christian, imagine that. As if that didn't help my brother's insane childhood.

 

So far we're got nut, craziness, and insane. These aren't great indications. Also, you took solace in religion. Another bad sign.

 

 

 

I would be stuck there not being able to leave or tell her that I really don't have the emotional capacity to hold all of my crap let alone with all her crap.

 

It is also clear that your mom used you as her outlet for her agitation. Most people call this "bitching" but I think feminists have successfully stolen this word away from us. I'm not quite sure of this but perhaps your brother started emulating his father in order to defend himself from this emotional abuse from mom. I am assuming your parents were separated by this point. I don't think he would have stayed around your mother for very long if he had any semblance of sanity left.

 

Finally, it hurts me that you and Anthony had to experience a childhood like this. I hope both of you get the help and support that you need, if you want it.

[Nutrigirl26]

I want to say thank all of you for everything that you've brought forward. I have actually been doing a lot to work through my childhood. I have been listening to Stef a few months shy of one year and since then I have been trying so hard mentally to process everything in the healthiest way possible. I would have touched on that but I didn't want to make the post too long. 

 

My dad is extremely emotionally, mentally and verbally abusive. He would do just loony things like when I disagreed with him one day when I was younger, he made me do hundreds of jumping jacks right where I stood in the kitchen while he sat down at the table and made himself a sandwich. Along with weird things like that, he would constantly assume that I was a bad kid. He always told me I was lying or I was hiding something from him. For example, every single year of school from elementary to my junior year of high school every day after school he would make me show him my homework for the day. When I told him we didn't have any homework that day, he'd accuse me of lying to him and would tell me to prove it to him that I didn't have any work that day. Of course, there was no way of me doing that short from calling the teacher myself, and of course... the school was closed for the day so that wasn't an option. He would put me in an impossible situation and of course I would be so frustrated and hurt and I would be crying and yelling at him "how can I prove I don't have any homework?!" and he would expect the teachers (for some reason) to send a paper home with the students telling the parents there wasn't any homework and he would always say "show me paper proof" or else I would have to stay in my room except to get dinner. And to give you an example of how he treated my mom: Back when they were in their early 20's, he signed up for the military and didn't even tell her he signed up until he was about to leave to be shipped to boot camp or whatever. He tells my mom how terrible of a mother she is and gets mad because he feels like it's me, mom, and Anthony against him. Anyways I think you get the picture. His way of doing things just never made much sense to me and I felt like I was being mind fucked constantly. 

 

I actually just recently (meaning a few months) told my dad that his influence in my life has left me nothing short of emotionally unstable and mentally traumatized. I told him that I really couldn't have a person like that in my life. Now, of course this didn't all come out as the most thoughtful and put-together speech in the world. Instead I pretty much blurted out everything I had been thinking and feeling for about a month. Of course he pretended not to understand where this was coming from and looked completely dumbfounded and showed virtually no emotion whatsoever until the end where he sort of admitted he was the reason my brother was in so much trouble. At the end of the very long conversation I told him I wouldn't have him in my life unless he took measurable advancements mentally and psychologically and even then I would have to weigh the options because I can never forget all the stuff he's done. Since then he has respected me wanting space and has not tried to contact me except once to ask if I was going to see Anthony. He has entered into therapy and the last time I went down there that day to see Anthony, he was there and I had a brief conversation with him and he was a lot better. He didn't sound demeaning, or condescending, and he didn't talk down to my mom or Anthony and not to me either. I know this doesn't change much I was just very surprised how much of a turn he took. He also started getting healthier. He has always been extremely overweight and has had a lot of medical problems which is another very important aspect of why it was so hard for me when I was a kid because I always had way too much empathy and sympathy for him because I was so afraid I would regret telling him how I felt being apart of his family for so long if he was going to die or something. He has gone from 450 lbs to just under 300! He doesn't use crutches anymore and he goes on walks every night, which I know doesn't sound like much, but I have never known him to do any kind of exercise. 

 

As for my mom and our relationship I am still on the fence about what to do in the long run. I spoke to her as well and when I told her how much it hurt me to basically become her mother and comfort her every time my dad pulled something she agreed with me and apologized and it felt genuine. I also told her how she should have been a better mother by taking care of her children and taking them away from destructive environments and that it isn't enough to just stand up for me and my brother in the moment when my dad does something she should have just removed us from the problem since we weren't able to do it ourselves. She started sobbing and I feel like there was a tiny part of her that was trying to manipulate me with her tears since she knows I am a very empathetic person and that it kills me when I see her upset. So I told her I didn't appreciate her acting a little more dramatic than the situation called for. 

 

Since then I have talked to her one other time and that time she was in a much better place mentally for the conversation. She said she really messed up and that she knew back when things began to get really bad with my dad that she had to make a choice but since she grew up without a dad for most of her life basically she knew how important a dad is to his children so she stayed. She also said the financial aspect was a big part of why she deliberately stayed with my dad despite how many times me and my brother told her to just leave him. She admitted she didn't do right by us and has been really trying to work on herself. She has given me the space I asked for and the few times when I have called her about Anthony she hasn't emotionally dumped on me like she used to which I really appreciate. I do really want her in my life and as I am going through this self learning period I am slowly figuring out that I do actually like her as a person. She has made some mistakes and I acknowledge those. I have a little more time by myself before I really decide what I want to do about her.  

 

There's some background on my parents. 

 

As for my brother, I have tried to restrain myself from telling him he's becoming like dad because he hates my dad the most in this world and I know he would completely shut down if I did and never talk to me again. Do you think that would be the best plan of action? 

[Spenc]

 

As for my brother, I have tried to restrain myself from telling him he's becoming like dad because he hates my dad the most in this world and I know he would completely shut down if I did and never talk to me again. Do you think that would be the best plan of action? 

 

Maybe something of an end-around like, "How do you wish our father had behaved and treated us when we were kids?  What qualities would have made for a good father in our lives?  What qualities should mom have recognized in our father that would have told her not to marry or have children with him, or afterwards, to get us out of the situation?

 

Perhaps get his own concept of a good man and his own concept of your father.  Ask him how he can strive to be more like the former. 

 

I don't know.  You know your brother better than any of us, maybe better than anyone, period.  If you're saying he's going to shut down, direct confrontation seems pointless, and in fact, emotionally burdensome on yourself.  A totally negative situation, not worth having. 

 

You didn't respond to the question I had asked about whether you believe your brother would listen to you talk about your journey of self-knowledge and if you thought he would remain present (physically or emotionally).  A lot of the ways that I am able to show empathy for myself is to experience it for my younger siblings, my nieces and nephews.  If I were in a period of my life where I was more dead inside, but my sister started talking to me about her emotional journey of self-knowledge, I would certainly exhibit empathy for her, and consequently exhibit that empathy for myself as many of the experiences she would be talking about would be shared between the both of us.

 

Best of luck.

[Nutrigirl26]

I honestly believe my brother would listen, but act like he didn't care on the outside just to show that he's not hurting as much as he really is. Even knowing that he really does care about my feelings and his feelings on the subject, to see him act like he couldn't care less about what I would be talking to him about would hurt me so much maybe that's why I have avoided bringing it up in such an open way. 

 

Thank you so much for talking with me, I will try to get to the bottom of this as best I can. 

[Spenc]

I totally understand your apprehension to put yourself out there like that.  I'm sorry that this has to be so painful for you.  Just one thought:  do you have anyone you can do a role play scenario with maybe, where you can play your brother?  I think maybe you would benefit from practicing RTR when dealing with your brother.  You seem to feel pressure to manage the discussion, is that maybe not helping you to be present and express yourself in the moment?

 

On the one hand, he's not a fully mature adult, and he's coming out of bad parenting and all that.  On the other hand, at 17 he has a lot of control over his own behaviour, and he's ont he verge of legal adulthood and not far behind full brain maturity.  I don't see how you can have any relationship with him going beyond the short term if his behaviour doesn't improve.  Do you feel like that is the case?  Is time running out on his chance to be in your life?  Is that maybe connected to why you don't want to have a major blow-off with him where he might shut down or get angry?  Is that why you initially used the term "handle the relationship", as if you need to be in control instead of merely being honest?

 

These are just questions, not conclusions.  I hope you find some guidance in some of the answers you encounter in yourself.

[Nutrigirl26]

Yes, I can definitely see how my apprehension to having such a deep and emotionally stimulating conversation with him might come from a place of fear of pushing him over the edge. Now that I think about it, I do feel like I am one or two steps away from having to make a pretty tough decision. Not to say that I would make the decision not to see him anymore set in stone because I realize he is young and at an extremely volatile point in his life right now and I understand the pain and anger he is feeling. 

 

And maybe I do have a slight tendency to want to be in control of this situation. Not because I actually want to control his, god knows he doesn't need another person trying to control him right now, but because I guess I am scared that he's too far gone and I want to try to make him see reason. ...Which I know I can't make him do anything, especially not if I want him to willingly be a part of my life, but I just feel so strongly about this and him that I know I am getting a bit intense with it. 

 

When we were kids, he was always picked on. By everyone. Teachers, his classmates, my friends and there are one or two instances where I watched someone physically pick on him and I was so scared I didn't do anything about it. And I know all siblings have been in situations where they had a chance to stick up for their younger or older sibling, but I didn't. And I know as a kid, I wasn't very physically able to get in the middle of him and some other bigger boy, so there wasn't much I could do, but I still think about one specific instance all the time. I mean seriously, like every time I think about where he is in his life right now, I remember standing there while he was getting hit by some other guy and it kills me. I assume that is why I have so much stock in this situation with him. 

 

I am sure you can tell, but I am just now piecing all these things together in my head. And now I feel marginally worse actually because I think a lot of it has to do with me maybe trying to "right my wrong"  by overexerting myself and trying to fix his problems instead of just trying to be there for him to talk to and confide in. I guess me relinquishing control and merely being honest with him is the best way for me to get honesty from him as well.

[Spenc]

Would you like to share that specific memory you have of being unable to help him with a bully?  Have you had a chance to write it down and express it fully beyond just in your head?  Whether journaling, sharing it here, sharing it in a private conversation (you're welcome to writ eme privately if you think that would help), or sharing it with a therapist, etc. I think by actually getting a command over the memory and getting it down coherently can help you see it more clearly and help you to move past it and maybe uncover other memories and patterns.

 

If I said that it is possible that you are trying to control the situation because you are not assigning proper responsibility to your parents, would that resonate with you at all?  You seem to really want to improve your relationship with your parents, and you have guided them in the direction to improve themselves and make that possible.  Is it possible that you are maybe giving them some slack and taking too much ownership over the current situation to compensate for their lack of control?  Again, you said "right my wrong", but you were not responsible for your brother when these terrible things happened.  Of course you would like to have helped him, but you seem to not be showing the proper empathy to yourself as a child, and giving responsibilities to yourself at the time that should have resided in your parents.  Sorry, I'm not sure if I'm expressing my thought clearly.  And anyways, it's just a question, not a conclusion, so I just want to help you get some perspective on the tricky situation of how you're managing three distinct people in one big mess like this.

 

You said you will back to visit your family again shortly, is that coming up in the next few days now?  What feelings are you experiences as your next visit draws ever nearer? 

[Nutrigirl26]

  Is it possible that you are maybe giving them some slack and taking too much ownership over the current situation to compensate for their lack of control?  Again, you said "right my wrong", but you were not responsible for your brother when these terrible things happened.  Of course you would like to have helped him, but you seem to not be showing the proper empathy to yourself as a child, and giving responsibilities to yourself at the time that should have resided in your parents.  

 

It is absolutely possible I am taking the responsibility that I should be putting on my parents. I have tremendous amounts of guilt for my brother and the things that has happened to him as a kid. Unfortunately, I don't understand why I am feeling guilt and not another emotion that doesn't mean I am taking responsibility for his unhappiness. 

 

I am visiting my family again in about a week and I honestly feel conflicted about it. I know I want to see my mom, I know I don't want to see my dad, and I know I am nervous about seeing my brother. There are a lot of feelings that I am trying to sort out and I don't know if I will be able to sort them out for a long, long time. 

 

I think I should share that memory with him. I think that would show him that I trust him and feel I can talk to him about serious things. 

[Spenc]

Tell me more about your childhood.

 

Were you given a lot of responsibilities around the house.  Cleaning, cooking, setting the table, and other chores?

Were you given responsibilities to babysit your younger brother a lot?  Were you instructed to look out for him at school?

What relevant experiences did you have that would lead you to take responsibility for everyone still to this day?

 

I think you already mentioned one:  your mom unloading her personal drama onto you as a child.  How do you think that relates to your feeling of responsibility and desire to control your family situation now?

 

I'm also curious....do you feel like your brother holds you accountable for your family and the way his childhood went?  If so, why?  If not, does that give you any sense of relief?

 

Also curious...did you ever abuse any of the authority you might have had over your brother, if you answer the previous questions to suggest that you were in such a position at times as a child?  e.g.  my sister had more credibility with my mom for being honest, therefore she was able to use that to get me in trouble for things I didn't do, or that she herself had done.  I'm just trying to give you an example of how older siblings can manipulate situations without necessarily being overtly violent or abusive.  These are things that might not stand out in your memories until you realize to look for them.

 

I think it's great that you have at least a week to think things through, and I think it's great you are tuning in to your feelings about your family as a whole, and also separating them out into individuals.  And I think it's great that you have had the courage to confront your parents individually in the past, that gives me reason to believe that you will have the same courage to open up to your brother as well and I hope you can reach him.  But remember, if you don't get through to him the first time, it's not a failure, it's a success just to accept the situation and take initiative.  I was just reading about this in Nathaniel Branden's book last night. 

[Nutrigirl26]

I actually wasn't given many chores around the house. My childhood house was and still is a pig sty. Not hoarders or anything, just very unorganized and my parents never held cleanliness in high esteem. My mom would argue otherwise.

 

I was held responsible for anything my brother did though. Like if he got into something around the house he shouldn't have, it was my fault for not watching him properly. Even just a year ago when I would go down to my house my mom would call me to make sure I made him something to eat as if he couldn't make it himself if he was hungry. I was blamed for a lot of the things he didn't do right and I think that may have been a big reason that I took on his abuse as my own in a sense.

 

My mom emotionally dumping on me I think definitely made me feel like it was my responsibility, if not her's, to help him in his troubles. She would also tell me about everything bad that happened to him as well as her talking about her boss and my dad, etc. So I heard a lot about him getting picked on at school, or how my dad would treat him, or how teachers would be mean to him because he was shy. I think maybe it just broke my heart every time I heard all that stuff that I tried to fix the problems so I wouldn't have to hear about them all the time.

 

I really do think he holds me accountable. With the amount of guilt I feel for how his childhood turned out, I can't imagine how he couldn't blame me for it. Maybe he doesn't, maybe I am just projecting here. If anything, I know he does blame me for not being there as kids. He looked up to me as the oldest and was always coming in my room begging me to play games with him or go to the park or the pool. Pretty much anything you could thing off that is mentally stimulating and fun as a kid, he constantly begged of me. Some times I would indulge him and I did have fun with him. Of course I was 4 years older than him, so by the time I started to phase out of wanting to play around all day, he was still peaking in the fun land of games and trampolines. I did feel bad when I told him I didn't want to play anything or to get out of my room. But it was like I couldn't help myself. As the years went by, he would still ask me to do things with him like play video games or watch movies or build forts, stuff like that. I remember getting so mad that I would roll my eyes and slam my bedroom door, or yell at him to go away and leave me alone. Every time I did something like that I felt like I was stabbing him in the heart, but I couldn't apologize or stop myself the next time. Granted, I grew up being yelled at so my natural response to any kind of emotion was to yell at whoever was provoking those emotions. A few years before I left the house for college, I eased up on him because I began to figure out the person I was really angry at and I felt such sympathy for him and how I treated him. Our relationship got better for a while and I tried to just make up for all the times I rejected him by being there for him. Now he's rejecting me because of his anger towards our parents, and I think that's why I am being a lot more understanding towards him than I would normally be with anyone else. 

 

When my parents got into fights, they didn't care if I was there or if my brother was there. Our vacations were absolutely terrible because they would choose to go on road trips... Yeah, not the best option for scream-o-holics. And I quickly learned that any time I wanted to be heard or respected, I had to scream or yell to get anyone's attention. It was extremely messed up. My mom would intentionally annoy me to the point where I would be screaming at the top of my lungs for her to stop whatever it was that she was doing or I'd have to physically push her out of my room. Not hard, but enough for her to leave. I wanted her to stop, not to hurt her. Basically there was a lot of yelling, all the time. 

 

My journey to self acceptance and has just begun I think. As cliche as that sounds it's totally true. Thank you for saying that, I have been trying extremely hard to get myself in the right mindset for future relationships. I haven't read Nathanial Branden's book yet, so thanks for giving me some insight that could help me.

[Spenc]

Why did you feel like talking about the screaming fights your parents got into?  I'm not saying that it wasn't good information to include, just that it didn't seem to be connected to anything in particular that I had asked, or that you had said to that point.  So I'm curious if you know what the connection is between your discussion about your relationship with your brother and all the yelling.  My first thought was that maybe you are creating an excuse for yourself for your neglect of him?  Like, "I couldn't play with him because I needed some peace and quiet in my room to escape the yelling."  I hope you are not creating an excuse for yourself here by doing that.  Remember, he was not your responsibility, he was your parents'! 

 

When your parents put that responsibility and that blame on you for your brother's actions, how did you feel toward him?  I suspect I know the answer, but I don't want to lead you.   How old were you when they started assigning responsibility to you?

 

"He looked up to me as the oldest."  Don't take the blame for his childhood because you were older.  Remember that you weren't the oldest, there were two older people there that he should have looked up to.  You said yourself earlier that you think he is and was a bright kid, so he knows that right?   If you have any sense that he blames you other than your own feelings of guilt, we can talk about that.  But that's not what you experienced when asked.

 

I think you had a really important theory there, that he understands somewhere in his mind that you rejected him at his point of seeking connection, and now that you seek connection, he is rejecting you back.  Is this something you would feel comfortable saying to him and asking for feedback on? 

 

So sorry that your childhood played out like that.  The idea that you had to physically force your mother out of your room so that you could get a break from the insanity in the house is terrible.  I hope that you're finding this discussion helpful.

[Nutrigirl26]

No I am saying that everyone in our house yelled all the time, so I picked up on it as a young kid and did the same thing to my brother that my parents were doing to me. That was how I felt I abused my power as the older sibling. Sorry, I know that was confusing. 

 

I remember being really frustrated at my mom more than anything when she would tell me that I need to take responsibility for my brother more than I was at him. I know I was really annoyed that he kept messing things up though. It wasn't that I was responsible for him that made me mad, it was that he knew, or at least I thought he knew, that I got in trouble when he did wrong and he wasn't trying at all to not get into trouble. If the roles had been reversed, I feel like I would have done everything in my power to stay out of trouble so he wouldn't get in trouble. 

 

Yeah I guess I have no real proof that he blames me. He's never told me he blames me or anything, I just assumed he did. 

 

I definitely think I would be able to ask him about all of this rejection that's been going on between us. In fact, I think that would be a great way to start the conversation. I am finding this conversation helpful. I have a few ideas of how to talk with him now.

[Spenc]

Okay.  Yeah, it seemed like you went into way more detail with the yelling and fighting in the house than you have with other things you've talked about and brought up in your previous posts.  SO I was wondering why the subject of the yelling would induce the extra detail.  But I see how that would be an answer to the question I asked you.

 

I'm not sure "frustrated" would be the proper term to use with respect to your feelings toward your mother when she dumped responsibility for your brother on you, would it?  Can you elaborate on that a bit?  It feels like you might be hedging, but of course it is your experience not mine, so don't let me talk you into changing your terms.  Just thought it might be beneficial to think a little more about it.

 

The feelings you seem to be describing about your brother are the same feelings I anticipated you would have felt:  resentment.  Does that sound accurate? 

 

Taking that into account, do you believe that when a person has feelings of resentment toward another, and lacks the emotional tools to resolve it (i.e. you were taught to face your emotions with yelling instead of resolving), that that person has a capacity to connect to the other person?  Would you agree with my assessment that your parents created an environment where they build an emotional wall between you and your brother and made connection virtually impossible?  There's nothing you could have conceivably done during this time to have overcome the conditions that you were stuck with, at least as far as I can reasonably imagine.  Would you agree with that?

 

I'm glad that you're finding some value here.  I can see what appears to be progress with each passing post from you.  I think that at some time, whether before or after you talk with your family, you will be able to read over this and see it yourself.  I really think you're going to do great.

[Nutrigirl26]

Honestly, I can't remember how I felt back then about my mother doing that to me. I know now I just feel exasperated because I know how wrong it is, but back them I know I was really good at masking my true feelings even to myself, so I can't be sure if I felt angry or just annoyed. I would have to meditate on that myself for a while before coming to a conclusion. I really don't want to just pick an emotion you know? 

 

I would agree that I did not have the tools to deal with my emotions. And yes, I think describing it as my parents creating an environment that built an emotional wall between us is perfect. That's exactly what it feels like most of the time. 

[Spenc]

Honestly, I can't remember how I felt back then about my mother doing that to me. I know now I just feel exasperated because I know how wrong it is, but back them I know I was really good at masking my true feelings even to myself, so I can't be sure if I felt angry or just annoyed. I would have to meditate on that myself for a while before coming to a conclusion. I really don't want to just pick an emotion you know? 

 

I would agree that I did not have the tools to deal with my emotions. And yes, I think describing it as my parents creating an environment that built an emotional wall between us is perfect. That's exactly what it feels like most of the time. 

 

You seem to have rephrased my question.  I asked how you felt toward your brother when you were assigned responsibility over him.  And you continually twist that to answer how you feel toward your mother about it.  I think you were not twisting it so badly this time, but still your mother is mentioned in the response and your brother is hinted at without mention.  The way you worded it, what your mother did to you, seems to deflect your emotions to her, and away from him.

 

I understand you are feeling guilt for how your childhood relationship played out with him, but I think it's important to accept the resentment you felt toward your brother as a child.  (if upon meditation, that does prove to be correct).  I think it's great that you are wishing to think harder about it instead of just throwing out an emotion and sticking to it, but keep in mind that you already answered the question before and I took what you said and simplified it down to one term.  Do you feel like you are practicing a bit of avoidance here?

 

I'm sorry if I seem confrontational toward you at this point.  I have heartfelt empathy for your situation, and I'm just responding according to what I sense in your responses.

 

I'm glad that you are seeing the situation for what it was in your childhood.  Do you find yourself empathizing with inner child when you're thinking more about it? 

[Nutrigirl26]

 

I'm not sure "frustrated" would be the proper term to use with respect to your feelings toward your mother when she dumped responsibility for your brother on you, would it?  Can you elaborate on that a bit?  It feels like you might be hedging, but of course it is your experience not mine, so don't let me talk you into changing your terms.  Just thought it might be beneficial to think a little more about it.

 

I was responding to when you asked me to think about my feelings toward my mother. I could be reading this wrong, of course. 

 

On the other hand, I think I might be trying to avoid admitting I felt resentment for my brother when I was younger. I can say with certainty that when I got older around the time I was in high school I did not resent my brother. Once I figured out that it was me and him against our parents, all the anger I thought I felt for him was finally directed to the correct people. 

 

I find my inner child has a lot to say! haha But yes, I think I am learning to be more empathetic for my younger self and the situation I was put in.

[Spenc]

Good for you and your inner child that you are feeling more empathy.  I just think it's important to come to terms with feelings of resentment.  Because that is what made it impossible for you to have empathy for your brother at the time and have a relationship with him.  And of course, none of that is your fault, it is the natural response for a child put in the environment that your parents created.  You were not a bad child for feeling resentment.  I think your inner child deserves empathy not guilt and responsibility.

 

In fact it sounds like you were a pretty good kid that you would accept the responsibility and take on the emotional dumping, and that you could grow to later have the empathy for your brother and make greater effort to bond with him.

 

Hope you get some great results on your upcoming visit with your family!  Every small step counts so much .

[Nutrigirl26]

I agree with you that it is important to come to terms with my true feelings and not hide behind feelings I wish I had instead. I will keep at it! I appreciate all of your insight as well as all of your questions that helped me think about things in a different way than I had before. This really helped me explore myself in a way, you know? Anyways, thanks for chatting with me and all the best to you in the future.  

[Spenc]

best of luck to you.  i hope if you're comfortable sharing the experience that you will give us all an update in the future.