Josh -Lel- Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 http://www.examiner.com/article/bank-deposits-will-soon-no-longer-be-considered-money-but-paper-investments "On Nov. 16, the G20 will implement a new policy that makes bank deposits on par with paper investments, subjecting account holders to declines that one might experience from holding a stock or other security when the next financial banking crisis occurs. Additionally, all member nations of the G20 will immediately submit and pass legislation that will fulfill this program, creating a new paradigm where banks no longer recognize your deposits as money, but as liabilities and securitized capital owned and controlled by the bank or institution.""For most Americans with savings or checking accounts in federally insured banks, normal FDIC rules on deposit insurance are still in play, but anyone with over $250,000 in any one account, or held offshore, will have their money automatically subject to bankruptcy dispursements from the courts based on a much lower rank of priority, and a much lower percentage of return." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wuzzums Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Maybe this will be the final straw for people and they'll look for alternatives such as Bitcoin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. D. Stembal Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I'm not sure what the real purpose of this legislation will be. Bank deposits haven't been guaranteed since fractional reserve banking became the norm. What happens when every customer shows up at the bank to take out their money? Bankruptcy. FDIC is a pyramid scheme to guarantee that banks pursue high risk loans, assets and investments to increase profits with no downside and lower their accountability to the customers. It as if the person who was quoted at Zerohedge has no idea how banks work. How could a modern day bank fail when the Federal government has them all propped up with legislation and bailouts? Perhaps there's something buried in the language which says, "Next time there won't be a bail out." I expect another housing crash is nearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luxfelix Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I'm not sure what the real purpose of this legislation will be. Bank deposits haven't been guaranteed since fractional reserve banking became the norm. What happens when every customer shows up at the bank to take out their money? Bankruptcy. FDIC is a pyramid scheme to guarantee that banks pursue high risk loans, assets and investments to increase profits with no downside and lower their accountability to the customers. It as if the person who was quoted at Zerohedge has no idea how banks work. How could a modern day bank fail when the Federal government has them all propped up with legislation and bailouts? Perhaps there's something buried in the language which says, "Next time there won't be a bail out." I expect another housing crash is nearing. Yep, and it's all so... misleading... The guy from Nomad Capitalist, Andrew Henderson, stated that another financial bubble is growing in the form of the automobile industry... whatever the case may be, another crash is likely just a matter of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. D. Stembal Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Yep, and it's all so... misleading... The guy from Nomad Capitalist, Andrew Henderson, stated that another financial bubble is growing in the form of the automobile industry... whatever the case may be, another crash is likely just a matter of time. The Gold and Silver promoters like to say that they dollar could be revalued overnight. People could wake up overnight and $1000 old US dollars equals $1 new dollar. I don't know if this is a realistic estimation of future events, but how else will we shake the enormous debt and pay all the unfunded liabilities. It's not possible. The Federal Reserve will have to raise interest rates through the roof, which will send the world tumbling to the largest economic depression in modern history, or we default and revalue the dollar and Americans become dirt poor overnight. Which one do you think they'll pick? I'd wager on option two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish64 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Buy silver. Paper is worthless. It has always been worthless. This is nothing new. Toilet paper will soon be worth more than Federal Reserve notes... actually, it has always been worth more than Federal Reserve Notes. The only difference between now is that people are starting to realize these facts. It's getting harder and harder for people to hide and deny it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luxfelix Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 The Gold and Silver promoters like to say that they dollar could be revalued overnight. People could wake up overnight and $1000 old US dollars equals $1 new dollar. I don't know if this is a realistic estimation of future events, but how else will we shake the enormous debt and pay all the unfunded liabilities. It's not possible. The Federal Reserve will have to raise interest rates through the roof, which will send the world tumbling to the largest economic depression in modern history, or we default and revalue the dollar and Americans become dirt poor overnight. Which one do you think they'll pick? I'd wager on option two. I don't know (I've heard the U.S. dollar is a bit of a special case because it is the exclusive oil-buying currency, the petro-dollar, but that can easily change as well, so... yeah, interest rates, defaults, or some carry-on camouflage). If they want to keep the party going, I think they'll employ another trade union scheme such as the Euro between Canada, the U.S., and Mexico (the Amero?) which will promise to stabilize the economy, but in reality just continue the generational theft. (And/or they'll find some casus belli to divert attention and delay a crash?) Buy silver. Paper is worthless. It has always been worthless. This is nothing new. Toilet paper will soon be worth more than Federal Reserve notes... actually, it has always been worth more than Federal Reserve Notes. The only difference between now is that people are starting to realize these facts. It's getting harder and harder for people to hide and deny it. In addition, I've heard that silver has anti-microbial properties (some people used to put silver coins in milk to extend its shelf-life)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish64 Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 I don't know (I've heard the U.S. dollar is a bit of a special case because it is the exclusive oil-buying currency, the petro-dollar, but that can easily change as well, so... yeah, interest rates, defaults, or some carry-on camouflage). If they want to keep the party going, I think they'll employ another trade union scheme such as the Euro between Canada, the U.S., and Mexico (the Amero?) which will promise to stabilize the economy, but in reality just continue the generational theft. (And/or they'll find some casus belli to divert attention and delay a crash?) In addition, I've heard that silver has anti-microbial properties (some people used to put silver coins in milk to extend its shelf-life)? Yep. Among a myriad of other things silver is good for. Do your research. My favorite thing to do is to have at least one toz in a round in my pocket. There is nothing like it. I always carry an ounce round of copper in my pocket, too. Nothing feels finer than silver, real money, in your pocket (though I will advise to refrain from investing in copper bullion. The spread on copper is too deep and too wide. You never know when it's going to be valuable and when it's going to be worthless. Feels good in the pocket, however, just the same). And, yes, I do spend it from time to time. People get mesmerized by actual money and they just gotta have it, so they trade me something good for it. For example, I was working in Las Vegas a couple of years ago and was asked by a Chinese tourist about a slot machine that dispensed actual silver coin to winners. She wanted to know if it was actually worth anything. I explained that it most certainly was, but why bother with the slot machine when I just happened to have a toz of silver right here in my hand, genuine American bullion. 99.9% pure, with an aboriginal American head and a buffalo's head engraved? She lit up like a Christmas tree when I dropped the round in her hand. She had to have it. Price did not matter. The Chinese are incredibly superstitious people. It was her belief that our meeting was no accident and that the coin was lucky. She would not leave without it. "Name your price on this coin, Sir." At the time, silver was selling for only around fourteen dollars per toz, and I did tell her that. But I also told her that particular bullion was a favorite of mine and that I did not wish to part with it, but part with it I would, "For the price of fifty dollars." Said I. She pulled a crisp fifty dollar bill out of her purse and gave it over to me without batting an eye. Silver closed yesterday at $16.43 per toz. That's like buying dirt. Gold is too goddamn expensive. Silver is the poor man's gold. Crazy not to have some silver. Get some silver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tritonx Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 There is a very practical experiment you can make. Try to get out more than 1000$ in cash and you have to tell the bank 24h in advance so they "prepare" the cash... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luxfelix Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 There is a very practical experiment you can make. Try to get out more than 1000$ in cash and you have to tell the bank 24h in advance so they "prepare" the cash... Likewise, don't deposit large sums or you'll be red-flagged by the banks and IRS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fractional slacker Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 The banks long ago ceased to have any connection with reality. The bankers and politicians use word salads to suit their purposes eg steal. And why not? They have no accountability and are not held responsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurcankivci Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 I don't understand why you think that paper is an investment. Interest you collect on money is less than inflation (the real one, not the manipulated by government). I would go for the stocks which represent brand value or technology. Even after a collapse, these will be valuable. Stocks of basic industries like railroads are also safe because in the time of economic rebuilding, these will be the first industries that start first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. D. Stembal Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 I don't understand why you think that paper is an investment. Interest you collect on money is less than inflation (the real one, not the manipulated by government). I would go for the stocks which represent brand value or technology. Even after a collapse, these will be valuable. Stocks of basic industries like railroads are also safe because in the time of economic rebuilding, these will be the first industries that start first. Buying most stocks right now would be a serious blunder. The buying opportunities right now are in the mining and petroleum stocks. Petrol will probably rally in the short run, but I wouldn't want to be holding the bag when the next recession hits the market. I'm slowly tucking my assets away in food, guns, ammo, crypto-currencies, and silver with some gold and platinum. Watch this relevant Peter Schiff video from three weeks ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iHuman Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 More into actual metal coinage myself, anything from gold down to copper, or other tangible assets, which have actual worth rather than an un-backed fiat pipe dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaVinci Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Yep. Among a myriad of other things silver is good for. Do your research. My favorite thing to do is to have at least one toz in a round in my pocket. There is nothing like it. I always carry an ounce round of copper in my pocket, too. Nothing feels finer than silver, real money, in your pocket (though I will advise to refrain from investing in copper bullion. The spread on copper is too deep and too wide. You never know when it's going to be valuable and when it's going to be worthless. Feels good in the pocket, however, just the same). And, yes, I do spend it from time to time. People get mesmerized by actual money and they just gotta have it, so they trade me something good for it. For example, I was working in Las Vegas a couple of years ago and was asked by a Chinese tourist about a slot machine that dispensed actual silver coin to winners. She wanted to know if it was actually worth anything. I explained that it most certainly was, but why bother with the slot machine when I just happened to have a toz of silver right here in my hand, genuine American bullion. 99.9% pure, with an aboriginal American head and a buffalo's head engraved? She lit up like a Christmas tree when I dropped the round in her hand. She had to have it. Price did not matter. The Chinese are incredibly superstitious people. It was her belief that our meeting was no accident and that the coin was lucky. She would not leave without it. "Name your price on this coin, Sir." At the time, silver was selling for only around fourteen dollars per toz, and I did tell her that. But I also told her that particular bullion was a favorite of mine and that I did not wish to part with it, but part with it I would, "For the price of fifty dollars." Said I. She pulled a crisp fifty dollar bill out of her purse and gave it over to me without batting an eye. Silver closed yesterday at $16.43 per toz. That's like buying dirt. Gold is too goddamn expensive. Silver is the poor man's gold. Crazy not to have some silver. Get some silver. I'll ask you the same thing I ask everyone who says "Buy gold/silver!" Why? Let's say I have $1000 to blow and go get some gold or silver. Okay. Now what. Grocery stores aren't run by superstitious Chinese women. (uh...at least not any I have been to. ) So what is the point of having gold or silver coins? Let's say the economy completely crashes and paper money becomes worthless. Okay. I still have a lot of skeptical people not willing to take some random coins from me. So, sure gold is pretty, but beyond that what good does it do me? I feel like the reason why people keep recommending to buy gold is because it makes their gold worth more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish64 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 I'll ask you the same thing I ask everyone who says "Buy gold/silver!" Why? Let's say I have $1000 to blow and go get some gold or silver. Okay. Now what. Grocery stores aren't run by superstitious Chinese women. (uh...at least not any I have been to. ) So what is the point of having gold or silver coins? Let's say the economy completely crashes and paper money becomes worthless. Okay. I still have a lot of skeptical people not willing to take some random coins from me. So, sure gold is pretty, but beyond that what good does it do me? I feel like the reason why people keep recommending to buy gold is because it makes their gold worth more. You have some research to do. Ask yourself, why people work so hard to mine gold and silver and put it on the market for sale? Why do people risk their lives for it, stake their fortunes on it? What do people do with gold and silver? Why is it such a valuable commodity? The values of gold and silver and their uses to mankind are too many to name here. So, far we have discussed only the use of gold and silver to facilitate exchanges between individuals. Precious metals are best for this for the simple reason that unlike most other commodities, it does not rot or get up and run away. It is always worth something to someone somewhere. Always. Likely the smartphone you're holding in your hand or the new laptop on your desk has some gold and/or silver in it. Gold and silver are most excellent conductors of electricity. Highly prized and highly valuable stuff any way you look at it. Another question to ask yourself is this: what makes you think the debt notes you hold in your wallet are worth so much? Whatever made you think they were ever worth anything in the first place? If gold and silver aren't so valuable, why is the State always seeking to control and confiscate it? In a crisis, personally owned precious metals are the first thing the State comes after. If not outright confiscation, then they offer to buy it from the public for some more worthless paper they promise to back up-maybe not now, but somewhere in the future. Lol. Gold and silver are valuable as money because they cannot be controlled. The paper garbage is easily controlled. The banks and the State do not want you to know and understand these things. It puts them out of a life of ease and comfort and all the free tangible goods they could ever desire. Who controls the goods controls the future, i.e., controls your future. Tangible values are your future. Debt is you selling your future out from under yourself of your own free will. The paper trash you have in your wallet is not an indication of how much you have, but just a tiny portion of how much you owe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. D. Stembal Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 I'll ask you the same thing I ask everyone who says "Buy gold/silver!" Why?Let's say I have $1000 to blow and go get some gold or silver. Okay. Now what. Grocery stores aren't run by superstitious Chinese women. (uh...at least not any I have been to. ) So what is the point of having gold or silver coins? Let's say the economy completely crashes and paper money becomes worthless. Okay. I still have a lot of skeptical people not willing to take some random coins from me. So, sure gold is pretty, but beyond that what good does it do me? I feel like the reason why people keep recommending to buy gold is because it makes their gold worth more. It's a hedge against inflation, and currency default, which mathematically has to happen, probably in the next five or ten years. It doesn't matter if the grocery store won't accept numismatic coins. Someone will pay top dollar for them. Have you heard of Gresham's Law? No one will use precious metals or crypto currency at the local depot anyway, because they are deflationary and well gain in purchasing power over time. Paper money does not behave this way; it loses value over time. The bad money chases the good money out of the market place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaVinci Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 You have some research to do. Ask yourself, why people work so hard to mine gold and silver and put it on the market for sale? Why do people risk their lives for it, stake their fortunes on it? What do people do with gold and silver? Why is it such a valuable commodity? The values of gold and silver and their uses to mankind are too many to name here. So, far we have discussed only the use of gold and silver to facilitate exchanges between individuals. Precious metals are best for this for the simple reason that unlike most other commodities, it does not rot or get up and run away. It is always worth something to someone somewhere. Always. Likely the smartphone you're holding in your hand or the new laptop on your desk has some gold and/or silver in it. Gold and silver are most excellent conductors of electricity. Highly prized and highly valuable stuff any way you look at it. Another question to ask yourself is this: what makes you think the debt notes you hold in your wallet are worth so much? Whatever made you think they were ever worth anything in the first place? If gold and silver aren't so valuable, why is the State always seeking to control and confiscate it? In a crisis, personally owned precious metals are the first thing the State comes after. If not outright confiscation, then they offer to buy it from the public for some more worthless paper they promise to back up-maybe not now, but somewhere in the future. Lol. Gold and silver are valuable as money because they cannot be controlled. The paper garbage is easily controlled. The banks and the State do not want you to know and understand these things. It puts them out of a life of ease and comfort and all the free tangible goods they could ever desire. Who controls the goods controls the future, i.e., controls your future. Tangible values are your future. Debt is you selling your future out from under yourself of your own free will. The paper trash you have in your wallet is not an indication of how much you have, but just a tiny portion of how much you owe. None of this really answers my question. Gold is used in electronics. So what? Paper money is garbage. Okay. I can buy food with that garbage. If the economy is fluctuating then gold is like a stock that I can buy low and sell high. If the economy crashes, and even if it doesn't, then I have a pile of gold that no business is ready to accept. Gold is just chunks of metal until someone wants to trade me something for them. So why take money that I can use to buy things and get gold instead? Again, I feel like the real reason people who have gold encourage everyone else to do so is to increase the value of their own gold. No one has ever given me a satisfactory reason why I should go buy gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powder Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I think it is interesting that someone would think that precious metals are not controlled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish64 Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 None of this really answers my question. Gold is used in electronics. So what? Paper money is garbage. Okay. I can buy food with that garbage. If the economy is fluctuating then gold is like a stock that I can buy low and sell high. If the economy crashes, and even if it doesn't, then I have a pile of gold that no business is ready to accept. Gold is just chunks of metal until someone wants to trade me something for them. So why take money that I can use to buy things and get gold instead? Again, I feel like the real reason people who have gold encourage everyone else to do so is to increase the value of their own gold. No one has ever given me a satisfactory reason why I should go buy gold. You're right. You should stay away from gold and silver. It's not for you. I think it is interesting that someone would think that precious metals are not controlled. Goods which are privately owned are not controlled. Save by the owner. That would be me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaVinci Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 You're right. You should stay away from gold and silver. It's not for you. Goods which are privately owned are not controlled. Save by the owner. That would be me. If it is not for me isn't that because you didn't explain why I should acquire any? This is why I keep asking all the gold supporters to explain why I should get it. The answers are always. "Gold is historically money!" "Paper is just trees" "Gold is in electronics!" While those statements are true, none of them are very convincing arguments for why I should buy gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powder Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Goods which are privately owned are not controlled. Save by the owner. That would be me. you think you have control over the value of gold and silver? Can you explain how that works? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish64 Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 you think you have control over the value of gold and silver? Can you explain how that works? Now, you've changed the subject. First, you say "I think it is interesting that someone would think that precious metals are not controlled." Now, you've switched to another discussion on value. Yikes. Conversation over. I'm out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powder Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 I don't think I have changed the subject, you did not define 'control'. I am not clear about what it means to "have control over privately owned goods" in this context. I have control over my paper money. Gold could drop to $175 an ounce tomorrow. the value, quantity in circulation, availability, access to, etc. precious metals is all controlled, and not by the man on the street, as it is for fiat currencies. what control do you have over gold that you do not have over paper money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. D. Stembal Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 I don't think I have changed the subject, you did not define 'control'. I am not clear about what it means to "have control over privately owned goods" in this context. I have control over my paper money. Gold could drop to $175 an ounce tomorrow. the value, quantity in circulation, availability, access to, etc. precious metals is all controlled, and not by the man on the street, as it is for fiat currencies. what control do you have over gold that you do not have over paper money? No one has the control over the value of anything. Gold, silver, palladium, iridium, and Light Coins are simply worth what someone will pay or exchange for it. The only reason government-issued dollars have any real value is because it is unlawful to refuse to take them when doing business. Since everyone knows dollars are inherently worthless and you have to use them, practically no one trades gold as a form of currency. People are reluctant to cash in or spend the the things that have actual value, like gold. This is Gresham's Law in action. Where by legal enactment a government assigns the same nominal value to two or more forms of circulatory medium whose intrinsic values differ, payment will always, as far as possible, be made in that medium of which the cost of production is least, and the more valuable medium will tend to disappear from circulation; in the case where the combined amount in circulation is not sufficient to satisfy the demand for currency, the more valuable medium will simply run to a premium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGP Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Years ago I watched the first couple of seasons of "Survivor". It could have been the first one where most of the contestants went in ripped with like 10% body fat. The guy who won went in with approx. 80lbs of spare tyre. I reckon the US will be ok even in the event of an economic collapse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish64 Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 No one has the control over the value of anything. Gold, silver, palladium, iridium, and Light Coins are simply worth what someone will pay or exchange for it. The only reason government-issued dollars have any real value is because it is unlawful to refuse to take them when doing business. Since everyone knows dollars are inherently worthless and you have to use them, practically no one trades gold as a form of currency. People are reluctant to cash in or spend the the things that have actual value, like gold. This is Gresham's Law in action. Absolutely. This is why I am not impressed by and stay away from numismatics. Collectors and shop owners dealing in silver will try to argue, "Well, this is an important coin, minted here or there and it is very highly valuable." "Buddy, to me it's an ounce of silver and nothing more. I will give you spot-or you can keep your coin." The only numismatics I buy are the Morgan. And the only reason I buy them is because they have some history behind them and I think they are beautiful. I just like them is all. I will pay a little more to get them, but they're the only numismatic I ever buy. I have bought a few cool Krugerrand in the past, too. To me, an ounce of metal is an ounce of metal and that's all it is. You can take that thing out back and pound it unrecognizable with a hammer for all I care. All you're getting is what I will give you for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powder Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 No one has the control over the value of anything. Gold, silver, palladium, iridium, and Light Coins are simply worth what someone will pay or exchange for it. The only reason government-issued dollars have any real value is because it is unlawful to refuse to take them when doing business. Since everyone knows dollars are inherently worthless and you have to use them, practically no one trades gold as a form of currency. People are reluctant to cash in or spend the the things that have actual value, like gold. This is Gresham's Law in action. I understand, but in the event of the collapse of the fiat currency (which is the reason I hear it is suggested to get precious metals) I still don't see how gold, which is regulated and can even be made illegal to possess, is a better investment than say a herd of cows, or a barn full of toilet paper, or bitcoin,.. what am I missing? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. D. Stembal Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 I understand, but in the event of the collapse of the fiat currency (which is the reason I hear it is suggested to get precious metals) I still don't see how gold, which is regulated and can even be made illegal to possess, is a better investment than say a herd of cows, or a barn full of toilet paper, or bitcoin,.. what am I missing? I don't understand what you are not understanding. Are you suggesting that precious metals don't have value? Why do cows and toilet paper have value? Also, I wouldn't rely solely on Bitcoins. Successfully exchanging BTC requires a functional internet. There is no guarantee that it will continue to do so, locally or globally. In extreme circumstances, the government could choose to order a cessation of internet traffic to prevent cyber terrorism. http://rt.com/usa/homeland-security-internet-kill-switch-742/ http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/web/02/03/internet.shut.down/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish64 Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 I understand, but in the event of the collapse of the fiat currency (which is the reason I hear it is suggested to get precious metals) I still don't see how gold, which is regulated and can even be made illegal to possess, is a better investment than say a herd of cows, or a barn full of toilet paper, or bitcoin,.. what am I missing? You're not missing anything. You've got it and you don't even know it. They can make a herd of cows illegal to possess, too. They can make it illegal for you to think, to use your brains, to speak your mind. They can make all of that illegal, too. They can make toilet paper illegal. They can make trade or even talking about it illegal. They can do whatever they want. But that only leaves us doing whatever we have to do to survive. And when it comes to that, we don't give a damn about the law and what is illegal and what is not illegal anymore. We gotta do what we gotta do to stay alive. The point is, the paper money (it isn't paper to begin with) isn't worth anything. It's not that it's worthless all of a sudden, it's that it was never worth anything to begin with. It is simply a bill of goods you have been sold. It is a lie. It is a paper induction. It is fraud. You cannot do anything with it. It is too rough even to be used as toilet paper. But you can do something with a herd of cows and you can do something with toilet paper, can't you? These things have intrinsic value. Everybody wants and/or needs them. But when I have toilet paper and you have cows, and you need some toilet paper but I don't need any cows, how then do we organize or facilitate and exchange between us? How will you get your toilet paper? That's where the metal comes in. It ALWAYS has value to someone somewhere, no matter what. It will not rot like toilet paper or get up and run away and die like a cow. You don't have to worry about your investment vanishing. You will need only keep others from getting their hands on it and taking it away from you, as in a robbery, as in taxation. You can bury it in a hole in the ground and no one will know you have it. It can't be tracked, like a bank account. It can't be seen b a drone, like a herd of cows or a shed full of toilet paper. It can't be confiscated. It can't be touched. And it holds its intrinsic value, come rain, shine, or wrath. And you can have a trunk-load of phoney-bills, Federal Reserve Notes, bucks, "dollars" or whatever you wish to call them-but when no one wants them anymore you're screwed. Silver will ALWAYS be worth something to someone somewhere. And of course, when something better than silver is discovered and replaces silver, you would then seek to find a way to get that which replaces it. But, for now, people are still accepting the phoney-bills, so, in a sense, for the time being anyway, you are safe. But when the phoney-bills become worthless to anyone, you will be glad to have a hole in the ground full of silver, and/or a herd of cows, and/or a shed full of toilet paper. Only goods and services pay for goods and services. Only goods and services are any good for doing any good. Phoney-bills are no good, non-good, non-goods. You need something that is real, that is tangible, that is useful to someone. All your phoney-bills will be good for is kindling. And why should anyone buy your kindling when its lying on the ground, free, for the taking? The gold and silver may even be worthless to you, personally. You may have no interest in it whatsoever. Just as you may have no interest whatsoever in how the computer you are now using actually works, how the gold and silver circuitry inside it does its job. All you may know is that it works, and that's all you need to know in order to use it. You don't need to understand it. You just turn it on and away you go. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geneloper Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 Hasn't bank deposits always been paper investments? I mean, they have fractional reserve banking and all that...there is no guarantee of you getting your money back, no guarantee of interest rates. I don't see this as necessarily a bad thing. I see it as a recognition that there is no absolute, ultimate store of value, only better ones, defined by the free market. Also, if there's a market for safer deposits, something else will take the place of bank deposits. I'd vote with my money. And as the saying goes, cash (liquidity) is king. Cash is flexible. Cash pays for things the fastest. Cash cushions losses. There are many good reasons to have cash. As long as we need cash, we will need a safe deposit for the cash, whatever that might be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powder Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 I agree that precious metals are more durable and less maintenance than other commodities like cows, and of course the state can outlaw anything they want. what are the chances that they would outlaw owning cattle or toilet paper or cans of beans? next to none. They know it would cause revolt and threaten their authority. But gold has been under the control of the money changers since the time of ancient Babylon and it is still under the umbrella of 'currency' and so confiscating, controlling and making laws for its use and ownership are much more likely, and generally perceived as legitimate in the mind of the statist. someone will always want gold? maybe, but its value is at the mercy of the money changers and its ownership and trade ability controlled by the state, just like fiat currency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. D. Stembal Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 I agree that precious metals are more durable and less maintenance than other commodities like cows, and of course the state can outlaw anything they want. what are the chances that they would outlaw owning cattle or toilet paper or cans of beans? next to none. They know it would cause revolt and threaten their authority. But gold has been under the control of the money changers since the time of ancient Babylon and it is still under the umbrella of 'currency' and so confiscating, controlling and making laws for its use and ownership are much more likely, and generally perceived as legitimate in the mind of the statist. someone will always want gold? maybe, but its value is at the mercy of the money changers and its ownership and trade ability controlled by the state, just like fiat currency. The value of anything is at the mercy of the market or individual. Price is subjective for a reason. How is the trade of anything, including precious metals, controlled by the state? I can go on Craigslist right now and barter for something I need, without using the government (other than their legacy in creating DARPAnet) or their money. This fear mongering of gold confiscation is completely misplaced when every day the politicians are lying and the central banks are stealing purchasing power from anyone who owns and uses the dollar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geneloper Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 The value of anything is at the mercy of the market or individual. Price is subjective for a reason. How is the trade of anything, including precious metals, controlled by the state? I can go on Craigslist right now and barter for something I need, without using the government (other than their legacy in creating DARPAnet) or their money. This fear mongering of gold confiscation is completely misplaced when every day the politicians are lying and the central banks are stealing purchasing power from anyone who owns and uses the dollar. Good point! Price is subjective. The government may be stealing as they have always done, but today, we the people have all the means and freedom to protect ourselves and our property. Nobody has to keep their savings in the USD and be stolen from. There are employers than are willing to pay you in Bitcoins. More bartering can be done than ever before. Free your minds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luxfelix Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Relevant Webinar: http://webinarjam.net/webinar/go/8136/afafbe9e29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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